Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[xipotec]

It’s going to take a lot more than 1 billion dollar flop to stop the SW juggxrnaught.....

Plus disgruntled new fans , will be replaced by new fans.




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[Adolfo]

I Like this a lot but unfortunately I don't think Ruin Johnson and KK thought this deep. If it makes me somewhat enjoy the movie by thinking most of what you posted then I will take it. I just think Ruin was trying to be Hipster and break the mold and seriously thought he wrote a good script, with thought provoking Social agendas

Well said...exactly what I think

 

[jye4ever]

It’s going to take a lot more than 1 billion dollar flop to stop the SW juggxrnaught.....

Plus disgruntled new fans , will be replaced by new fans.




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Lets break it down.

Good and Bad

If TLJ stops at 1.1 that is a whole billion less than TFA and it might not even be the highest earner of the year!

That’s a HUGE reputation hit and the SW brand health longevity is called into question big time very scary stuff for Disney.

But DID IT EARN its production and marketing budget back?

Of course it did big and huge!

Does Disney believe that EVERY SW needs to make 2.2 billion dollars?

I don’t know but if they do they’re idiots lol

They paid 4.5 billion for SW or 4.0 billion I don’t remember.

So they still haven’t broken even yet with their purchase with TFA/RO/TLJ at least where the movies count.

But when you factor in the amount of TFA/RO/TLJ toys that DiFabio, Wor-Gar, Oto and Adolfo have bought I wouldn’t be worried for Disney.

 

[klwn]

That would be mind-blowing if it only makes 1.1 billion. And in that case, one more mistake and I'd say Kennedy is out.

But even if it makes let's say 1.4, that's still quite bad for a trilogy movie. Of course, not from a profit standpoint, the movie started being profitable around the $550-600 million mark and would make just as much profit as say an Avengers movie. But as jye points out, that's not enough for Star Wars, for all kinds of reasons.

 

[jye4ever]

That would be mind-blowing if it only makes 1.1 billion. And in that case, one more mistake and I'd say Kennedy is out.

But even if it makes let's say 1.4, that's still quite bad for a trilogy movie. Of course, not from a profit standpoint, the movie started being profitable around the $550-600 million mark and would make just as much profit as say an Avengers movie. But as jye points out, that's not enough for Star Wars, for all kinds of reasons.

You bring up great points especially if Solo bombs bye bye Kennedy she will live an utterly horrible life in her 35 million dollar home with eternal residuals from all corners of fandom fueled investments.

She might even have to lay off 10 from her 100 person staff though.

I don’t think it started being profitable as low as 550 maybe probably more like 650 but who really knows right.

Yeah SW is like Trump it demands nothing less than 100% loyalty.

 

[Spazz]

The Star Wars universe in TLJ is characterized by a breaking down of the original ANH structure of good opposing bad.

I would argue that TLJ asserts a "Love vs. Hate" dichotomy, where 'empathy' (we are to conflate empathy and compassion) is implicitly the foundation for sound moral judgement. Vanity in perpetuating one's self-image is portrayed as a road to ruin, where one is too focused inward to see the virtuous moral path. So virtue is about specific feelings emoting outward, as opposed to inward.

On the subject of capitalism, for practical real world reasons the film cannot surely be asserting an anti-capitalist sentiment. But they do question the impact of the capitalist economic system in the Star Wars universe. The act of freeing 'enslaved creatures' from their 'shackles' brings chaos to the casino. You can read into that the Marxian view of a downtrodden proletariat undertaking violent revolution. But that's not the whole story, nor could it be from the perspective of the film or the producers/owners of the film.

It's not capitalism that is wrong, but how the money is made and how it is spent, and any damage it causes to lives along the way.

They don't even paint the capitalist arms dealer as a 'bad guy', because while he's making a profit out of death he's also supplying the Resistance with the means to bring about what they believe will be positive change.

My background is mainly focused on political philosophy, so I can comment on this with a fair amount of certainty. When trying to understand an ideology, it's constructive to look at the core, or central tenants of what is being espoused, as people tend to disagree within each ideology the more you drift toward peripheral, minute tenants.

In this film, we see cruelty at the hands of the competitive market. We see people being oppressed and subjugated by a wealthy class, and we see arms dealers profiting from both sides of a conflict, much like the military industrial complex. In narrowing down the ideological background of the author, we know he's not libertarian. From there, is he advocating for a more equal distribution of resources? Yes. What does the author suggest implicitly, as an alternative distribution of resources? Centralized in the hands of a single bureaucracy, or some other sort of competitive entities? The film doesn't offer suggestions.

We do know, however, that the film does regard centralized authority as being instrumental, and not to be questioned. For example, Captain Purple Hair's need for unquestioned secrecy is, while puzzling to most viewers, obviously perceived as something to be respected. The implicit subtext seems to suggest that Poe failed to respect the authority of a powerful woman (or women) and would pay for his unwillingness to follow commands.

From there, we know that the author a) advocates for centralized authority, b) in the name of equal representation, while c) is critical of the suffering caused by inequality. While the author neglects to state a specific challenge to capitalism, one can assume the author would argue for equal representation within an authoritarian social hierarchy, like socialism, where inequality was eliminated on compassionate grounds. Re-distributive capitalism or a socialist, Government controlled distribution of resources? The film is too vague to specify. It's some brand of authoritarian redistribution.

Edit: Johnson wouldn't call it authoritarian, because he's a true believer. He'd call it "democratic". Some sort of "democratic socialism". There's a chance he could be a social democrat who really, really likes authority. Perhaps he'd argue for taxation and "basic income". I don't know that he has a fully formulated opinion, one way or the other. He definitely likes authority, and is concerned with an egalitarian distribution of resources. That's all we know.

[video]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism[/video]

 

[klwn]

You bring up great points especially if Solo bombs bye bye Kennedy she will live an utterly horrible life in her 35 million dollar home with eternal residuals from all corners of fandom fueled investments.

She might have to even lay off 10 from her 100 person staff though.

I don’t think it started being profitable as low as 550 maybe probably more like 650 but who really knows right.

Yeah SW is like Trump it demands nothing less than 100% loyalty.

Oh yeah, there is no reason to feel bad for her no matter what happens. I would a little bit if she had at least given the impression that she has true passion and respect for all of this, but that's not the vibe I'm getting. Just going back to the interview with her and George where she says the goal is to protect these characters or something along those lines... Well, we know where that got said characters.

 

[Lakhota]

I wish I saved it but there was an article saying Disney/LucasArts expects Solo to bomb. With all the rewrites and reshooting 80% of the movie, it said they were having a hard time thinking it would do well. I don't believe KK would come right out and say they know something would flop, she's too arrogant and that's not how Lucasarts have portrayed themselves.

 

[klwn]

I wish I saved it but there was an article saying Disney/LucasArts expects Solo to bomb. With all the rewrites and reshooting 80% of the movie, it said they were having a hard time thinking it would do well. I don't believe KK would come right out and say they know something would flop, she's too arrogant and that's not how Lucasarts have portrayed themselves.

Check out this video if you haven't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uobfgk_W8I

 

[Spazz]

8. As we know, TLJ didn't answer all the questiona posed by TFA. Instead, it poses new questions and new problems. It shows potential solutions, and how they work on a personal level, yet fail on the universal. Where does the "Hope" of the OT lie now? It's a fundamental question without a simple answer, because how do you create order out of chaos, without causing more chaos? That's Luke's dilemma. And has been for the Rebellion/New Republic/Resistance. How do you put an end to conflict?

I think the film answers this question. Remember, Johnson likes authority. You're correct that meritocracy also plays a role within the film. However, the virtue ethics involving empathy/love vs. vanity/hate are likely meant to be a guiding principle for organizing people. The rebels/alliance are those who love one another, and make sacrifices to protect what they love, while the new Empire is led by Kylo (?), a man who is consumed by his own self-image, driven by hatred.

This is Johnson's take on what Yoda stipulated as the emotions leading to the dark side of the force, “Fear is the path to the dark side… fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.” Johnson has replaced fear with Vanity. Vanity leads to anger, when met with opposition. That leads to hate, which leads to suffering.

 

[Spazz]

For those wondering whether or not Rian Johnson is hardcore into Social Justice, he has answered this question:

"Rian Johnson calls for women and people of colour to direct Star Wars films "
[video]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2017/12/14/rian-johnson-calls-women-people-colour-direct-star-wars-films/[/video]

From Variety: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/whats-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi-and-whats-not

"Johnson isn’t keen to draw parallels between his story and current events. “To me,” he says, “the power is greatly diminished if suddenly you have a character stand up in front of the Imperial Senate who has orange hair and is saying, ‘Let’s make the galaxy great again.’ It just cheapens it all and divides the audience. What actually matters, and what these films can actually speak to, are the fundamental building blocks of what makes people good, what makes people brave, what are the things we should be fighting for.”

In other words, the Last Jedi is primarily about Virtue Ethics, more so than forms of political organization.

 

[Lakhota]

Oh yeah, there is no reason to feel bad for her no matter what happens. I would a little bit if she had at least given the impression that she has true passion and respect for all of this, but that's not the vibe I'm getting. Just going back to the interview with her and George where she says the goal is to protect these characters or something along those lines... Well, we know where that got said characters.

I am currently at work and the government blocks youtube (but not SSF?) I will definitely watch it when I get home. I am an essential Employee and unfortunately have to work on Christmas, but at least its double time. I come in at 0345 so I get out at a decent hour.

I wonder if they have Christmas at Ruin Johnsons house, I bet he left cookies out for the Grinch.....

 

[jye4ever]

If a woman, black or brown person even comes near the directors chair of a SW movie I swear to my religion of peace, forgiveness and kindness that I will absolutely ONLY SEE THEIR MOVIE TWICE!

You hear me Rian Cuck feel my wrath!

I will NOT tolerate an insult to my whiteness and masculinity of this magnitude!

Alright screw this the next minority female I see i’m going to make her cook me waffles!

I’ll show who’s king of this land!

”Honey can you please make me christmas waffles”

Oh look my wife did them without me even having to demand it, how cool.

What’s that honey.....yes i’m on the forum working towards 100 thousand posts.

 

[Lakhota]

If a woman, black or brown person even comes near the directors chair of a SW movie I swear to my religion of peace, forgiveness and kindness that I will absolutely ONLY SEE THEIR MOVIE TWICE!

You hear me Rian Cuck feel my wrath!

I will NOT tolerate an insult to my whiteness and masculinity of this magnitude!

I don't care if a transgender, midget with a bald head and duck feet does a SW movie as long as its good.

 

[klwn]

I don't care if a transgender, midget with a bald head and duck feet does a SW movie as long as its good.

 

[DarkChocobi]

Kathleen just need to go. Old hag axed Clone Wars and ruined Star Wars.

 

[jye4ever]

New director announced!

Never heard of her french director named Tiny Queer Quack Picard!

 

[Lakhota]

New director announced!

Never heard of her french director named Tiny Queer Quack Picard!

View attachment 383962

hahahahahah, she needs to be in Canto Bight. Have BB8 shoot gold coins at "it"

 

[crows]

New director announced!

Never heard of her french director named Tiny Queer Quack Picard!

View attachment 383962

 

[jye4ever]

Can you imagine a porn movie with Shaq O Neal and a midg...dwarf girl!