Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[jye4ever]

spot on. I've always said PT failed when it started with baby vader. The trilogy should've been darker and started with Anakin closer to Luke's age in ANH (maybe a little younger), suffering through slavery with his mother. That would've set the tone for a character that had years of painful hardship that carried forward through the next two movies and built the foundation for his inner anger and rage. As it is, you have a 7 yr old that's amazingly well taken care of and very well adjusted for a slave, who's rescued and raised by two Jedi. You never got a good sense for any real character development, so they had to shoe horn in his mother's death in AOTC as the key motivation for his anger. But it just felt like a reach at that point.

Great post.

It’s anti PT which brings warmth to my heart lol

 

[Prime Clone]

"He knows nothing of greed"

Good people turning bad is more interesting than dark/traumatised people turning bad.

Even when he turned he thought he was doing it for the right reasons. And once he started he couldn't stop.

 

[aa909]

"He knows nothing of greed"

Good people turning bad is more interesting than dark/traumatised people turning bad.

Even when he turned he thought he was doing it for the right reasons. And once he started he couldn't stop.

nah, Lucas tried that in the PT and it didn't work at all. It would've been more interesting starting with someone tortured, who then showed glimpses of hope and goodness as his character was developed, but ultimately was consumed by his rage. But we can agree to disagree

 

[aa909]

Great post.

It’s anti PT which brings warmth to my heart lol

ya know, I'm on my 3rd glass of scotch for the evening and it's that sweet spot where I sometimes have a rare moment of clarity LOL!!

 

[crows]

I saw jumanji 2 and it was a packed theater, got pretty full.
That movie was hilarious.

I checked the theater for the last jedi screening after jumanji ended and there was like 3 people........

I did not expect jumanji to be so full or last jedi so empty.

 

[TonTon]

Wasn't even the actor to blame IMO. I just never wanted to see Darth Vader at that age, I think it was a huge mistake. Not to mention the lack of rhyming that Lucas was fond of - would have been better to have him be the age Luke is in ANH. We only get to that point in AOTC but there's inevitably a disconnect with the change of actor and jumping ahead by all that time. Might aswell be a different character for all we know.

Yeah, his acting is really no worse than Hayden in AOTC. At the very least they should have had someone who could have played all three movies. I know DiCaprio was interested in the role of Anakin. He was too well known but it would have been nice to have someone (like McGregor) with acting chops.

spot on. I've always said PT failed when it started with baby vader. The trilogy should've been darker and started with Anakin closer to Luke's age in ANH (maybe a little younger), suffering through slavery with his mother. That would've set the tone for a character that had years of painful hardship that carried forward through the next two movies and built the foundation for his inner anger and rage. As it is, you have a 7 yr old that's amazingly well taken care of and very well adjusted for a slave, who's rescued and raised by two Jedi. You never got a good sense for any real character development, so they had to shoe horn in his mother's death in AOTC as the key motivation for his anger. But it just felt like a reach at that point.

Yeah, Anakin starting at Luke’s age would also make Yoda’s hesitation about Luke being too old for training make more sense.

 

[DarkChocobi]

I see nothing wrong in AOTC. I consider Ep2 is the most important in whole Prequel triology and play a key role for Anakin downfall later.

His intense love for Padme
The death of his mom
His political point of view toward the Republic
Jedi council are bunch of idiots

These are the messages that Mr Lucas would like to send to the fans, as Anakin is destined to become Vader.

But most of people see is just whiny bitching kid and that sand ****. Well that exactly how Anakin was portrayed as Lucas wanted, back then he was just a padawan, a cocky young Jedi who was so full of himself, bascially a 19 years old kid with teen dramas. Put yourself back into that age, were you any differ ?Anakin had a tough childhood, was a slave, left his mom very young to train with Qui-Gonn - the only person who really appreciate him - but was killed shortly later, denied and rejected by Jedi council, , trained by Obiwan who always doubted his ability and constantly being trolled during the training. The guy life was **** mess, no love at all...so give him a **** break.

Calling yourself "SW fans" but only spit on the movie without any proper understanding

 

[abake]

I see nothing wrong in AOTC. I consider Ep2 is the most important in whole Prequel triology and play a key role for Anakin downfall later.

His intense love for Padme
The death of his mom
His political point of view toward the Republic
Jedi council are bunch of idiots

These are the messages that Mr Lucas would like to send to the fans, as Anakin is destined to become Vader.

But most of people see is just whiny bitching kid and that sand ****. Well that exactly how Anakin was portrayed as Lucas wanted, back then he was just a padawan, a cocky young Jedi who was so full of himself, bascially a 19 years old kid with teen dramas. Put yourself back into that age, were you any differ ?Anakin had a tough childhood, was a slave, left his mom very young to train with Qui-Gonn - the only person who really appreciate him - but was killed shortly later, denied and rejected by Jedi council, , trained by Obiwan who always doubted his ability and constantly being trolled during the training. The guy life was **** mess, no love at all...so give him a **** break.

Calling yourself "SW fans" but only spit on the movie without any proper understanding

While I wouldn't call it the most important movie in the trilogy, I agree with all your points.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I’m very curious with what’s going to happen now going forward with the modern diversity narrative that’s found its way into SW now that TLJ might earn an entire 1 billion less than TFA.

I see only 2 paths.

1. Kennedy/Iger/Shareholders completely shut down the perceived forced diversity narrative in SW out of massive fear of the damage caused to the brand with TLJ.

2. Kennedy/Iger/Shareholders say screw the 50% box office loss and 50% negative RT fan score and they double down, triple down, quadruple down on their diversity narrative pretty much telling the fans that if you’re not into diversity in SW then new SW is not meant for you find another franchise to be angry over.

I was going to add path 3 which was keeping the same amount of diversity that was already in TLJ but for some keeping it the same as TLJ is pretty much the same as path 2.

Now I know some (cough JAWS cough) are going to quickly point out to me that diversity wasn’t their main problem with the movie but that’s irrelevant because I guarantee you that’s the primary reason Disney is going with on why it will earn 1 billion less than TFA and why that RT backlash exists. It sure is much easier to blame the 1 billion loss on others for pushing back against diversity than it is to blame themselves or their sweetheart Rian especially after they already announced his trilogy.

So which will it be 1 or 2?

I bet Disney already had a crisis intervention for Kelly Marie Tran for her not to hang herself.

Laura Dern doesn’t it need it this isn’t her first rodeo but for Kelly yikes she killed SW.

I don't think diversity is the problem, because the brand seems to be the main selling point for a lot of people, and the SW fanbase which is predominantly male will continue to support the brand no matter how much Disney shapes SW to fit their Disney princess brand, but I do think the new cast just isn't strong enough to carry the franchise, regardless of gender or race.

I do find it funny, when I see all these SW related commercials with all these girls and young women in them No offense to them, because I'm sure there are plenty of female SW fans, but it's so strange to see the SW brand being marketed that way, because growing up, not only did I not know any girls that liked SW, the brand was aimed at boys and young men. Even when the prequels came out, I don't remember seeing that kind of strategy.

Despite Disney's effort to diversify SW, the demographic for TLJ opening looked like this...

62% - White

15% - Hispanic (white, black, Asian, mixed...etc..)

10% - Asian

9% - African American


42% - Men age 25+

25% - Men age 25-

23% - Women age 25+

10% - Women age 25-

So, yeah...the fanbase is still predominantly white male nerds

 

[Ropen]

Should we be worried now? disney killing jedi/sith, makes me wonder with JJ abrams taking over, Episode Ix will be like star trek.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Star Puffs]

I’m very curious with what’s going to happen now going forward with the modern diversity narrative that’s found its way into SW now that TLJ might earn an entire 1 billion less than TFA.

You're assuming, as you have been from the start, that the bulk of dissent is political, when those loud voices are just a distraction from TFA and TLJ being straight up sub-par films, with poor character development, negligent world building, and failure to offer a compelling narrative.

I actively wanted a female Jedi lead for the ST, but was so bored with The Mary Sue Awakens, that I couldn't wait for the film to end. Only the thrill of seeing Luke made me have any anticipation of TLJ and then they ___ the bed with his character (I actually watched the film after a free opportunity in my home arose that didn't necessitate putting my daughter in chidl care ).

I'm fine with a multiethnic cast, even recognize it as a business necessity, as long as they don't try to work in real life political statements. I loved Rogue One. There'a a real litmus test actually. If you liked RO but hated TFA or TLJ, then then person is unlikely to be criticizing them out of any actual racism or misogynist. Even then some people may legitimately lot like any of the films as films, not due to identity politics.

 

[aa909]

You're assuming, as you have been from the start, that the bulk of dissent is political, when those loud voices are just a distraction from TFA and TLJ being straight up sub-par films, with poor character development, negligent world building, and failure to offer a compelling narrative.

I actively wanted a female Jedi lead for the ST, but was so bored with The Mary Sue Awakens, that I couldn't wait for the film to end. Only the thrill of seeing Luke made me have any anticipation of TLJ and then they ___ the bed with his character (I actually watched the film after a free opportunity in my home arose that didn't necessitate putting my daughter in chidl care ).

I'm fine with a multiethnic cast, even recognize it as a business necessity, as long as they don't try to work in real life political statements. I loved Rogue One. There'a a real litmus test actually. If you liked RO but hated TFA or TLJ, then then person is unlikely to be criticizing them out of any actual racism or misogynist. Even then some people may legitimately lot like any of the films as films, not due to identity politics.

Great post, that was spot on!

 

[abake]

Star Puffs speaks truth.

 

[jye4ever]

You're assuming, as you have been from the start, that the bulk of dissent is political, when those loud voices are just a distraction from TFA and TLJ being straight up sub-par films, with poor character development, negligent world building, and failure to offer a compelling narrative.

I actively wanted a female Jedi lead for the ST, but was so bored with The Mary Sue Awakens, that I couldn't wait for the film to end. Only the thrill of seeing Luke made me have any anticipation of TLJ and then they ___ the bed with his character (I actually watched the film after a free opportunity in my home arose that didn't necessitate putting my daughter in chidl care ).

I'm fine with a multiethnic cast, even recognize it as a business necessity, as long as they don't try to work in real life political statements. I loved Rogue One. There'a a real litmus test actually. If you liked RO but hated TFA or TLJ, then then person is unlikely to be criticizing them out of any actual racism or misogynist. Even then some people may legitimately lot like any of the films as films, not due to identity politics.

I assume nothing Disney is already using that as the reason why the movie received that RT fan score. Disney has their own army of vloggers fighting that fight for them with diversity being the front lines.

What you really think Disney is going to blame themselves for failing to offer a compelling narrative or will they find a scapegoat reason.

Besides 50% of the posts in the thread prove Disney is right anyways.

 

[tjdavis1138]

Now that the movie has had a few weeks to sink in I think I'd be ok if Luke hadn't thrown the saber over his shoulder. A simple , "I'm no longer a Jedi, I can't accept that" would have been good enough for me. The way it is now I felt like I was sucker punched and never recovered.

For the record, I loved Rogue One.

 

[mutant-man]

Now that the movie has had a few weeks to sink in I think I'd be ok if Luke hadn't thrown the saber over his shoulder. A simple , "I'm no longer a Jedi, I can't accept that" would have been good enough for me. The way it is now I felt like I was sucker punched and never recovered.

For the record, I loved Rogue One.

Yes! That was total nonsense. Really, his entire role was.

 

[tjdavis1138]

If Luke has rejected the Jedi why is he wearing the robes? Maybe because Disney has no ******ing idea what their doing?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

If Luke has rejected the Jedi why is he wearing the robes? Maybe because Disney has no ******ing idea what their doing?

He should have been naked on that island. Naked and alone, with his giant whale cow thing.

 

[jye4ever]

I don't think diversity is the problem, because the brand seems to be the main selling point for a lot of people, and the SW fanbase which is predominantly male will continue to support the brand no matter how much Disney shapes SW to fit their Disney princess brand, but I do think the new cast just isn't strong enough to carry the franchise, regardless of gender or race.

I do find it funny, when I see all these SW related commercials with all these girls and young women in them No offense to them, because I'm sure there are plenty of female SW fans, but it's so strange to see the SW brand being marketed that way, because growing up, not only did I not know any girls that liked SW, the brand was aimed at boys and young men. Even when the prequels came out, I don't remember seeing that kind of strategy.

Despite Disney's effort to diversify SW, the demographic for TLJ opening looked like this...

62% - White

15% - Hispanic (white, black, Asian, mixed...etc..)

10% - Asian

9% - African American


42% - Men age 25+

25% - Men age 25-

23% - Women age 25+

10% - Women age 25-

So, yeah...the fanbase is still predominantly white male nerds

IX will introduce the all black female tuskegee rogue squadron.

 

[aa909]

If Luke has rejected the Jedi why is he wearing the robes? Maybe because Disney has no ******ing idea what their doing?

the problem is they wrote a sh***y a$$ script explaining why he's rejected the Jedi. This is the same character that went on a solo mission to the Death Star in ROTJ to turn the most evil villain in the universe because he felt the tinniest bit of good in him, and now we're to believe this same character thought about killing his nephew in his sleep because he sensed "darkness" in him. really?? and then after the confrontation with Kylo fails we're to believe Luke threw in the towel and ran away to an island to die, really RJ? really? smh


Edit: What would have been a satisfying explanation for why Luke retreated to the island? Maybe Kylo and the Knights of Ren had grown too strong for Luke to confront at the time, so he sought out the original Jedi temple to meditate and hone his powers before returning to confront the Knights of Ren. Rey shows up and he realizes that with her help, and proper training, the two of them could confront Kylo and the KoR.

Meanwhile Kylo kills Snoke with the help of the KoR and rises to power, thereby setting up the confrontation with Luke and Rey in the end scene. That's just off the top of my head, but >TLJ

and maybe Luke dies during the battle with the KoR, Rey is badly injured but escapes, hence setting up Episode 9. Yeah it ******king sounds like Empire but 10,000 times > TLJ LOL!