Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[TaliBane]

Everyone got a trophy at the end of EPIV (ok a crappy gold soccer medal).. even Vader. Vader got a cool looking tie fighter and another day to cause havok...

Actually, two people did.

But I know it DID feel like you... and all of us... got one too.

 

[jye4ever]

Not if Rey is Vader then it’s just the beginning lol

 

[crows]

Ya know.. If Kylo is killed off in the next film.. The Skywalker bloodline is done..

Sad

These ST movies suck

Kylo will impregnate Rey using the force

Since NOW Luke showed us you can travel with your mind, AND Rey and Kylo are connected in their mind... they dont even have to be in the same room

kylo will just have sex with her via skype

 

[morphosis]

Yes, Luke's amount of training is huge compared to Rey's. People don't realize that TFA + TLJ happen just over a few days, and that she had never used the Force before that. Of course until TLJ, most people were convinced it would be explained via some sort of mind wipe (probably what JJ had planned in his mind), but now... Nah, she is the light that rose to meet the dark and that's it, here is your explanation, have fun with your new Force canon.

Regarding Anakin, actually he is still considered to be the Chosen One for a lot of people as it's never been officially confirmed I think if it was Luke or Anakin.
He did end up destroying the Sith, so the prophecy came true. Just in a different way than was first expected.

And Rey has the old Jedi books, Luke tells Kylo that the Jedi aren't going to end so... Yeah, still more Jedi.

The thing is Rey trained herself, all her life, to be able to defend herself, fly spacecraft, fix tech, learn about tech, all on her own. Her being able to handle that staff all her life is far more swordsman training Luke ever had before he faced Vader. So in a lot of ways, she had more training than Luke ever did as far as hand to hand combat and flying spacecraft. And like Anakin, she does have strong Force sensibilities. The Force may be in everything, but i think its clear some have it stronger than others at first. She is very connected to the Force and we still haven't found out everything about her journey. There is at least 1 more movie about her, could be more since we don't know exactly what is happening after IX. So some of the question we don't know if there will be answers just yet. We know Anakin/Vader/Luke's journey, we just don't know all of Rey's yet. And there is still a chance that she may be someone's child, or she had been trained. We can't take Kylo for his words just yet or we don't even know if Kylo had the correct info about her. 1 more movie to find out.

If IX doesn't give more insight into her life, then i can see there could be an argument. But we need to see where her journey leads her to first before we can make a full judgement on who she really is.

but according to a lot of people, they aren't going to see episode IX. so, if thats true, they better not be in these threads complaining about a movie they didn't see...

 

[ShadowX81]

Everyone got a trophy at the end of EPIV (ok a crappy gold soccer medal).. even Vader. Vader got a cool looking tie fighter and another day to cause havok...

They also did something to earn it.

The thing is Rey trained herself, all her life, to be able to defend herself, fly spacecraft, fix tech, learn about tech, all on her own. Her being able to handle that staff all her life is far more swordsman training Luke ever had before he faced Vader. So in a lot of ways, she had more training than Luke ever did as far as hand to hand combat and flying spacecraft. And like Anakin, she does have strong Force sensibilities.

I could buy that she would be good with tech (but she went too far when she schooled Han about the Falcon), but where did she learn how to fly spacecraft, fight with a lightsaber, move things with her mind, speak Wookie, or force mind-control someone?

 

[aa909]

I chuckle reading the “critic” reviews praising RJ for taking SW in a “new direction”. That’s sorta fine if this was the first movie in a new trilogy, but a story is supposed to have a beginning, middle and an end. A good writer foreshadows events in the beginning then builds upon them in the middle and finally gives you the “payoff” at the end.

JJ foreshadowed several key story arcs in TFA, which TLJ should have developed further thereby setting up Ep 9. But Ruin Johnson basically **** on the entire story arc from TFA like a lactose intolerant ********* who just ate an entire block of cheddar.

The problem is there wasn’t 1 writer/director working with a complete vision for all 3 episodes. That blame falls squarely on KK...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Kylo will impregnate Rey using the force

Since NOW Luke showed us you can travel with your mind, AND Rey and Kylo are connected in their mind... they dont even have to be in the same room

kylo will just have sex with her via skype

If Kylo and Rey are mentally connected, does that mean that they both know their location? That can't be good for the FO and the rebels.

 

[morphosis]

They also did something to earn it.



I could buy that she would be good with tech (but she went too far when she schooled Han about the Falcon), but where did she learn how to fly spacecraft, fight with a lightsaber, move things with her mind, speak Wookie, or force mind-control someone?

She worked on the Falcon. She used to sneak on board it and learn about it on her own. She knew the falcon. I wouldnt say she schooled Han by any means on it. But she did understand how it worked, and its original configurations that Han and Chewie setup.

She flew craft on Jakku. the movie showed her on the landspeeder, and in the EU books, they go into how she lives in the AT-AT and onboard the AT-AT they had a training simulator where she learned about most of the ships in the galaxy. She spent years learning on it every since she made it her home. In the EU books she flew another ship to help a few people get off the planet.

Many people in SW know Wookie, do we ever hear how they learned it?

The mind control was obvious she picked it up when Kylo tried to control her mind. She realized she might be able to do it. Failed at first, then succeeded against a weak minded Stormtrooper.

Did we ever see Luke learn how to use it? in ROTJ, he used it. But we never saw him learn how to. Only 6 months passed between ESB and RoTJ. Did we ever see him try it and fail at it before RoTJ? Nope. And know one ever tried it on him like Kylo did to Rey. His only 1 lesson was in ANH when Ben did it to a Stormtrooper. But we never saw him try it.

 

[ShadowX81]

She worked on the Falcon. She used to sneak on board it and learn about it on her own. She knew the falcon. I wouldnt say she schooled Han by any means on it. But she did understand how it worked, and its original configurations that Han and Chewie setup.

She flew craft on Jakku. the movie showed her on the landspeeder, and in the EU books, they go into how she lives in the AT-AT and onboard the AT-AT they had a training simulator where she learned about most of the ships in the galaxy. She spent years learning on it every since she made it her home.

When was any of this in the movie? That's all that matters. As it is she just has all these random skills with no reason nor explanation for them.

Not to mention the fact that driving a landspeeder isn't at all knowing how to fly. Landspeeders are more like cars. Where did she learn how to fly a starship?

Many people in SW know Wookie, do we ever hear how they learned it?

Rey has never met a Wookie. How did she learn it?

The mind control was obvious she picked it up when Kylo tried to control her mind. She realized she might be able to do it. Failed at first, then succeeded against a weak minded Stormtrooper.

Rey saw Kylo try and torture information out of her. Essentially very painful mind reading. She had no clue at all it was even possible to control someone's mind, let alone how she could it it herself.

Did we ever see Luke learn how to use it? in ROTJ, he used it. But we never saw him learn how to. Only 6 months passed between ESB and RoTJ. Did we ever see him try it and fail at it before RoTJ? Nope. And know one ever tried it on him like Kylo did to Rey. His only 1 lesson was in ANH when Ben did it to a Stormtrooper. But we never saw him try it.

And he spent time training with Yoda and for many months in between films. Rey picked it up in a day without any practice nor knowledge that it was even a thing.

 

[morphosis]

When was any of this in the movie? That's all that matters. As it is she just has all these random skills with no reason nor explanation for them.

Not to mention the fact that driving a landspeeder isn't at all knowing how to fly. Landspeeders are more like cars. Where did she learn how to fly a starship?


Rey has never met a Wookie. How did she learn it?


Rey saw Kylo try and torture information out of her. Essentially very painful mind reading. She had no clue at all it was even possible to control someone's mind, let alone how she could it it herself.


And he spent time training with Yoda and for many months in between films. Rey picked it up in a day without any practice nor knowledge that it was even a thing.

Did you ever see Luke learn how to fly an X-wing....NOPE!
Did you ever see Leia or Luke meet a wookie before ANH?...NOPE!
Luke did not train for months between films with Yoda. He left Yoda in ESB and didn't see him again until Yoda's death. He had no training with Yoda, no training with Ben after ESB. We didn't see him do any training after he left Yoda in ESB. You just said "was any of this in the movie?" referring to Rey. But you can happily accept Luke's off-screen training that never happened?

 

[ShadowX81]

Did you ever see Luke how to fly an X-wing....NOPE!

He flew a T-16 skyhopper. He mentions it in the film and you can see it parked in the background. Rey has never flown a single thing in her life yet on her first go seems to be an ace pilot.

Did you ever see Leia or Luke meet a wookie before ANH?...NOPE!

No one spoke directly with Chewie. Han seemed to be the only one who could understand him in the first movie.

Luke did not train for months between films with Yoda. He left Yoda in ESB and didn't see him again until Yoda's death. He had no training with Yoda. No training with Ben. We didn't see him do any training after he left Yoda in ESB. You just said "was any of this in the movie?" referring to Rey. But you can happily accept Luke's off-screen training that never happened?

Luke still had weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah (which we saw) and months spent practicing those skills on Tattoine. Rey has nothing, nada, zilch. We can't even say that she has been practicing because TLJ takes place immediately after TFA. She just had the force one day because believing in yourself is all it takes.

 

[crows]

If Kylo and Rey are mentally connected, does that mean that they both know their location? That can't be good for the FO and the rebels.

huge plot hole

 

[Asta]

 

[TaliBane]

The thing is Rey trained herself, all her life, to be able to defend herself, fly spacecraft, fix tech, learn about tech, all on her own. Her being able to handle that staff all her life is far more swordsman training Luke ever had before he faced Vader. So in a lot of ways, she had more training than Luke ever did as far as hand to hand combat and flying spacecraft. And like Anakin, she does have strong Force sensibilities. The Force may be in everything, but i think its clear some have it stronger than others at first. She is very connected to the Force and we still haven't found out everything about her journey. There is at least 1 more movie about her, could be more since we don't know exactly what is happening after IX. So some of the question we don't know if there will be answers just yet. We know Anakin/Vader/Luke's journey, we just don't know all of Rey's yet. And there is still a chance that she may be someone's child, or she had been trained. We can't take Kylo for his words just yet or we don't even know if Kylo had the correct info about her. 1 more movie to find out.

If IX doesn't give more insight into her life, then i can see there could be an argument. But we need to see where her journey leads her to first before we can make a full judgement on who she really is.

but according to a lot of people, they aren't going to see episode IX. so, if thats true, they better not be in these threads complaining about a movie they didn't see...

But this is the problem with Rey's character - it doesn't match up with the "journey" she's supposedly on in the ST.

Luke had an internal conflict because as he progresses through the OT, he increasingly faces a nightmare about his ancestry - his father was murdered by Vader, Vader is his father, and finally is it his fate to become like his father? Then he has the external conflict - he's a simple farmboy with few fighting skills, but he must face down the best military in the galaxy and a terrifying wizard with unbelievable powers.

Into this mix was introduced the idea of the force, and how it might be able to help him if he approaches it right (and it's unclear to him and to us what "a Jedi" or even "training in the force" means - it's very mysterious and possibly scary - "you will be, you will be...") or could destroy him and even the galaxy if he doesn't. This is what made Luke such a compelling hero, and the stakes sky-high.

But then there's Rey - set up pretty much exactly like a new Luke in TFA - desert planet, no parents, same age, similar costume, pining for more etc etc. But over TFA and TLJ we learn that Rey has no real ancestral/family connection to the galactic conflict's key players (after teasing she's related to somebody significant, it turns out she's a "nobody") and she also is unbelievably gifted in both fighting and force aptitude - she doesn't even need a teacher/training and can not only easily take care of herself with a pole, but beat the galaxy's best with a lightsaber in her first try - contrast this with the brutal beat-down Luke receives in the Cantina, and in ESB.

So the question is - where's the struggle (and therefore growth) for Rey, both internally and externally? What engages us in her supposed journey other than we sense she's a new Luke up against a new villain in black with evil intent (even if he's more a wet mop as a person,) a journey that we all internalized from the OT? Why is Rey's story significant (other than her gender)?

 

[Prime Clone]

Even if TLJ’s box office is a “disappointment” I reckon LFL/Disney will consider it short-term pain for long-term gain. Johnson is offering them a whole future of Force Kids movies.

 

[morphosis]

He flew a T-16 skyhopper. He mentions it in the film and you can see it parked in the background. Rey has never flown a single thing in her life yet on her first go seems to be an ace pilot.


No one spoke directly with Chewie. Han seemed to be the only one who could understand him in the first movie.


Luke still had weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah (which we saw) and months spent practicing those skills on Tattoine. Rey has nothing, nada, zilch. We can't even say that she has been practicing because TLJ takes place immediately after TFA. She just had the force one day because believing in yourself is all it takes.

sorry, i disagree. a T-16 skyhopper that we never saw him fly but he mentioned he flew them. Just like Rey said she knew the Falcon. By then the Falcon is a very old ship with old tech. She clearly knew what it was. And like i said in the books they go into way more detail about her knowing how to fly ships. If you can use off-screen training with Luke, we can certainly use off-screen ship flying with Rey.

There is no real timetable of how long Luke was on Dagobah. its anywhere from 30 minutes to 6 weeks. I think it was towards the less judging by the amount of time Leia and Han were in the Falcon and getting to Cloud City, then being caught by Vader. Luke was maybe with Yoda 5-10 days. We saw nothing of him training on Tattoine. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. (your words)

You can't be open to Luke being a Jedi doing most of his training off-screen and not give the same credit to Rey who learned all her life on Jakku how to take care of herself. A few weeks on Dagobah and Luke can hold his ground against the greatest Sith ever, then 6 months later he can defeat him?

And it all really started with Anakin. He had very high force sensitivities at a very young age. And thats why we can give credit to Rey of being highly sensitive with the Force.

This argument has been going on for 2 years and i just have to say the people who believe in Rey, like me, will never see differently, and I know people like you will never give her the credit like they do with Luke or Anakin, and they got more movies behind their belt plus 40 years of other stories over thousands of books, comics, games, etc etc.

So we just gotta leave it at that...and wait and see what IX tells us about Rey. Like i have mentioned, we know Luke's complete story. We do not know hers. And those of us that have read some of the books about her that are canon understand where some of her skills come from.

And i personally can make the leap with Luke as well. I am actually on your side about Luke, Anakin, all of it. I totally accept their skills, as I do with Rey.
Goodnight.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

huge plot hole

Not yet, but it could be if they keep force chatting in the next film, and somehow not know or use that knowledge to find each other's location. Unless, they can hide that information using the.....force.

 

[Asta]

Yup even chimps will watch Disney movies.

Some of TLJ's top writers were chimps.

They just needed to have been more diverse. Not enough Bonobos to impart the love for Abram's vision.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Even if TLJ’s box office is a “disappointment” I reckon LFL/Disney will consider it short-term pain for long-term gain. Johnson is offering them a whole future of Force Kids movies.

Force Kids sounds like the name of a Disney SW movie or tv show.

 

[ShadowX81]

sorry, i disagree. a T-16 skyhopper that we never saw him fly but he mentioned he flew them. Just like Rey said she knew the Falcon. By then the Falcon is a very old ship with old tech. She clearly knew what it was. And like i said in the books they go into way more detail about her knowing how to fly ships. If you can use off-screen training with Luke, we can certainly use off-screen ship flying with Rey.

Luke mentions he can fly in the movies. Rey....has maybe been onboard the falcon a few times while its been parked? Anything in the books or whatever doesn't count. What counts is the movie.

There is no real timetable of how long Luke was on Dagobah. its anywhere from 30 minutes to 6 weeks. I think it was towards the less judging by the amount of time Leia and Han were in the Falcon and getting to Cloud City, then being caught by Vader. Luke was maybe with Yoda 5-10 days. We saw nothing of him training on Tattoine. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. (your words)

We saw Luke training, and know for a fact that he spent months practicing. Rey never does either.

You can't be open to Luke being a Jedi doing most of his training off-screen and not give the same credit to Rey who learned all her life on Jakku how to take care of herself. A few weeks on Dagobah and Luke can hold his ground against the greatest Sith ever, then 6 months later he can defeat him?

He never once held his ground. He became cocky and thought he was ready after a few lessons with Yoda but was scarily unprepared. Vader was toying with him and could have kicked his butt at any second. Which is what he did after Luke managed to somehow get a couple of lucky hits in.

We never see Rey learn anything for a second. With Luke we know for a fact that this stuff occurred. With Rey you are just kind of making stuff up.

And it all really started with Anakin. He had very high force sensitivities at a very young age. And thats why we can give credit to Rey of being highly sensitive with the Force.

Sensitive sure. But even Anakin needed a decade of training. Rey didn't need a minute of it.