Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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Having just watched the OT over this week...I can tell you there are a ton of similar issues in those films.....plot holes? Only about a bazillion.....but it was seen though children’s eyes so we overlooked it....after 40 years those holes were filled in and expanded. And many were outright forgiven due to effect it had on us as children.

The original films had a linear plot that involved character arcs. The new trilogy is all over the place. The original trilogy involved graphic design by Ralph McQuarrie that broke convention, altering how we perceive fiction. It was so unusual that there were no other films capable of competing with Star Wars merchandise, so toy companies literally had to create narratives for toys from their offices because character design wasn't taken seriously as a commodity in Hollywood. Star Wars was so influential that it drove innovation. Some countries actually had to rethink censorship in seeing the effect on innovation Star Wars had.

A film is art, art is subjective...and lends itself to interpretation. There for us IS subjective. You speak from an angle I understand...that everything must be logical and orderly ....and have full explanations that are satisfying to your sensibilities.

Yes and no. Aesthetics are subjective in terms of taste, and stipulated meaning. However, art has certain functional prerequisites if you want to communicate. Stories are a form of communication. It's as much a craft, as it is an art. You can't just abandon the English language and tell a story, for example, with your own made up jibberish. Saying, "Snoggle flot biglady bop!" is not a functional statement, despite the fact that aesthetics are subjective. The original trilogy wasn't perfect, but it had a strong, linear plot that also paralleled theories by an academic named Joseph Campbell regarding mythology. George Lucas was heavily influenced by these theories, in attempting to access ideas that transcended our differences, arriving at a "human condition". He succeeded. The new trilogy? It was just bad writing.

Dogmatic and absurd ideology? According to what scale? And what moral center? Yours?

Morality doesn't exist. All moral claims are false, and all ideology is dogmatic and absurd. If you make a claim about the world, including the claim "Morality exists", you have a burden of proof. There is no evidence to suggest that morality exists.

Meanwhile, if I tell you, "You have a moral obligation to refrain from being self-sufficient", or "You have a moral obligation to obey authority", it's not enough to say, "Well, we all have different beliefs." Normative beliefs involve you. They're about what people believe are your obligation to do things. You can't just sit on the sidelines with relativism. You'll be coerced one way or another, so you may as well get your head in the game.

Contradictions and moronic subtext? Again , contradictions do not make something bad....and your “moronic subtext” is again a judgement you made, while others did not.

In logic, contradictions are false. In fiction, like logic, you need consistency (as opposed to contradiction) in order to maintain the suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, if you see a puzzle piece that doesn't fit into the picture, you realize you're looking at a picture. You might not notice the piece doesn't fit, but for anyone who does... it's a problem.

As for moronic subtext, again, you can make claims about moral theories. For instance, if the internal logic of a theory is contradictory, or there's no evidence to suggest it reflects reality.
 
So the biggest domestic earner of 2017 that was released just 2 weeks before the end of 2017 is an embarrassment of cinema now lol

What were those negative votes up to now, 200,000 someone said?

Lets say those 200,000 votes are really individual people x $20.00 a ticket = 4 million dollars

So 4 million dollars out of the 1.1 billion dollars absolutely HATE the movie with a passion! :lol
 
So the biggest domestic earner of 2017 that was released just 2 weeks before the end of 2017 is an embarrassment of cinema now lol

What were those negative votes up to now, 200,000 someone said?

Lets say those 200,000 votes are really individual people x $20.00 a ticket = 4 million dollars

So 4 million dollars out of the 1.1 billion dollars absolutely HATE the movie with a passion! :lol

Yep, the .04% has spoken, the brand is ruined. :lol

Wait I forgot the 72 people who voted that they hated it in the Love/Hate poll on this site. So the .0400000002% has spoken, lol.
 
Yep, the .04% has spoken, the brand is ruined. :lol
Lots of dummies out there giving their money to charity,Er I mean Disney this time of year...I know one guy did it 8 times in 2016....I mean what were they thinking?
 
So the biggest domestic earner of 2017 that was released just 2 weeks before the end of 2017 is an embarrassment of cinema now lol

What were those negative votes up to now, 200,000 someone said?

Lets say those 200,000 votes are really individual people x $20.00 a ticket = 4 million dollars

So 4 million dollars out of the 1.1 billion dollars absolutely HATE the movie with a passion! :lol

Yep, the .04% has spoken, the brand is ruined. :lol

Wait I forgot the 72 people who voted that they hated it in the Love/Hate poll on this site. So the .0400000002% has spoken, lol.


I wish everyone who saw TLJ was compelled to vote "liked it" or "didn't like it".

Other than extended runs like Titanic or Avatar, initial box office gives very little information beyond 'brand appeal'...

Jye and Khev are proposing that paying for a ticket is an immediate vote of "satisfaction".
 
The original films had a linear plot that involved character arcs. The new trilogy is all over the place. The original trilogy involved graphic design by Ralph McQuarrie that broke convention, altering how we perceive fiction. It was so unusual that there were no other films capable of competing with Star Wars merchandise, so toy companies literally had to create narratives for toys from their offices because character design wasn't taken seriously as a commodity in Hollywood. Star Wars was so influential that it drove innovation. Some countries actually had to rethink censorship in seeing the effect on innovation Star Wars had.



Yes and no. Aesthetics are subjective in terms of taste, and stipulated meaning. However, art has certain functional prerequisites if you want to communicate. Stories are a form of communication. It's as much a craft, as it is an art. You can't just abandon the English language and tell a story, for example, with your own made up jibberish. Saying, "Snoggle flot biglady bop!" is not a functional statement, despite the fact that aesthetics are subjective. The original trilogy wasn't perfect, but it had a strong, linear plot that also paralleled theories by an academic named Joseph Campbell regarding mythology. George Lucas was heavily influenced by these theories, in attempting to access ideas that transcended our differences, arriving at a "human condition". He succeeded. The new trilogy? It was just bad writing.



Morality doesn't exist. All moral claims are false, and all ideology is dogmatic and absurd. If you make a claim about the world, including the claim "Morality exists", you have a burden of proof. There is no evidence to suggest that morality exists.

Meanwhile, if I tell you, "You have a moral obligation to refrain from being self-sufficient", or "You have a moral obligation to obey authority", it's not enough to say, "Well, we all have different beliefs." Normative beliefs involve you. They're about what people believe are your obligation to do things. You can't just sit on the sidelines with relativism. You'll be coerced one way or another, so you may as well get your head in the game.



In logic, contradictions are false. In fiction, like logic, you need consistency (as opposed to contradiction) in order to maintain the suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, if you see a puzzle piece that doesn't fit into the picture, you realize you're looking at a picture. You might not notice the piece doesn't fit, but for anyone who does... it's a problem.

As for moronic subtext, again, you can make claims about moral theories. For instance, if the internal logic of a theory is contradictory, or there's no evidence to suggest it reflects reality.

Have you read Alice in Wonderland? Does it make sense to you?

How can Han Solo survive in outer space in a cave?

Do you like this painting?
7b0e1a1353225f607abea738049dd4e9.jpeg



Now feel comforted that all these items are subjective.....and no matter what your answer is I can disagree with you and be correct.

There is no logical reason someone likes one thing versus another that you can explain and be correct.

Ever eaten pigs feet? Did you like it? Did you not like it ? Why? Was it not pickled the correct way?

All your arguments rely on teachings you were given by people who “say” that a story must contain these elements to be good.

And BTW Dr. Seuss made a career out of books made of nonsense words with no story...cause they were for kids ....like Star Wars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So the biggest domestic earner of 2017 that was released just 2 weeks before the end of 2017 is an embarrassment of cinema now lol

What were those negative votes up to now, 200,000 someone said?

Lets say those 200,000 votes are really individual people x $20.00 a ticket = 4 million dollars

So 4 million dollars out of the 1.1 billion dollars absolutely HATE the movie with a passion! :lol

"So all the millennial pop music that's taken over western culture is somehow a failure now? You're telling me that Katie Perry, Justin Bieber, all those rappers named Lil' from Lil' Johnny and Lil' Franky to Lil' Deeznuts... They suck?! You're telling me that these entertainers who've made millions of dollars and sell out stadium shows each year, are somehow artistic failures? That the culture is in decline? That we're being spoon fed substandard entertainment? YOU CRAZY! :cuckoo:"

Yes, that's what I'm telling you.
 
So the biggest domestic earner of 2017 that was released just 2 weeks before the end of 2017 is an embarrassment of cinema now lol

What were those negative votes up to now, 200,000 someone said?

Lets say those 200,000 votes are really individual people x $20.00 a ticket = 4 million dollars

So 4 million dollars out of the 1.1 billion dollars absolutely HATE the movie with a passion! :lol

that's not how statistical sampling works. you can extrapolate the RT sentiment to the mass audience... heck most companies make business decisions based on market research sample sizes ranging from n= 30 to 100. now granted RT is not a controlled MR effort, but 200,000 votes is a statistically significant representation of audience sentiment, especially when you have other star wars movie scores as references on the same platform.
 
Yep, the .04% has spoken, the brand is ruined. :lol

Wait I forgot the 72 people who voted that they hated it in the Love/Hate poll on this site. So the .0400000002% has spoken, lol.

:lol :lol :lol

And that 4 million is IF those 200,000 are really individual people AND I was generous with the ticket price and made the average $20 instead of $15.00. :lol

72 people lol

Could really be only 68 I bet Adolfo voted 4 x. :lol
 
Have you read Alice in Wonderland? Does it make sense to you?

How can Han Solo survive in outer space in a cave?

Do you like this painting?
7b0e1a1353225f607abea738049dd4e9.jpeg



Now feel comforted that all these items are subjective.....and no matter what your answer is I can disagree with you and be correct.

There is no logical reason someone likes one thing versus another that you can explain and be correct.

Ever eaten pigs feet? Did you like it? Did you not like it ? Why? Was it not pickled the correct way?

All your arguments rely on teachings you were given by people who “say” that a story must contain these elements to be good.

And BTW Dr. Seuss made a career out of books made of nonsense words with no story...cause they were for kids ....like Star Wars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, you're confusing subjective tastes with functionality, or "hypothetical imperatives". You can like a broken car. The car is still broken. You can like a broken narrative. The narrative is still broken. You can like an irrational ideology. The ideology is still irrational. You can like a painting. The painting either communicates the author's intentions, or it doesn't.
 
The thread is a failure on so many levels it’s a great.....no need for reality tv.

Two sides with no intention on debating anytjing moreso to simply get a point across and “be right.” The problem is the person on the other spectrum doesn’t care which increases the tension.

Seriously someone should set up a chat and nominate a 3-4 from each side and go at it...put it on social media, I’d be hilarious.
 
Two sides with no intention on debating anytjing moreso to simply get a point across and “be right.” The problem is the person on the other spectrum doesn’t care which increases the tension.

Shhh, don't say stuff like that, jye and I are having too much fun trolling the naysayers. ;)
 
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