Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[crows]

Based on Cinemascore TFA was 36% female for opening weekend (I did see a 33% reported recently, but that's not what it was reported as in 2015,) while TLJ was 42% female for opening weekend - but these numbers wiggle slightly because of rounding. It is possible more men rush out opening weekend, making opening weekend weighted more male.

All I mean is that TLJ was OVERTLY directed at females, in casting/character, story content and very much in marketing/merchandizing. Add to that the political context, which has very much played a part: more overt feminist-angle mass-media news stories about TLJ (maybe due to the Trump backdrop and #metoo) being a feminist movie in various ways - supplanting male audience, multiple strong female leaders, Poe and "toxic masculinity" etc.

What I meant was that given that VERY pronounced female-oriented social and market context (which - other than the new Luke being female - didn't exist for TFA) I don't consider an increase of somewhere around 6-9% to be that significant.

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

you wanna know what is weird?

why didnt Kathleen Kennedy hire a female director and Main writer, right?
thats weird right? strange?

look how well wonder woman did, look at how much positive feedback it got. how much praise, look at how beloved wonder woman was. wonder woman was so great that it made Gal Gadot haters turn into fans.... thats who powerful wonder woman was.


where..... where was the female director for The last Jedi or even Rogue one? why are they still hiring WHITE MALES?

thats kinda goofy right? for a movie and a producer so hellbent on "female power" it sure seems so strange that all Kennedy does is keep hiring WHITE MALE directors.... she wont even get men of color to direct her movies.....

i find that much more troubling, and of course rushmore223 will ignore this but instead argue idiotic things that have nothing to do with anything.

again, if my masculine ego is so fragile... why do i have jasmine as my sig?

 

[TaliBane]

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

Say it with toys, it'll have a bigger impact.

Yes, Isaac convinced JJ to keep him alive.

Correction: Isaac's agent convinced JJ to keep Poe alive.

 

[Khev]

I actually like both Finn and Poe I'm just surprised that neither are "Big Three" status in the new trilogy. It's all about Rey, Kylo, and whoever the mentor character is for each flick. It'll be interesting to see if one of them can finally rise to top prominence along with Rey in Episode IX.

 

[Khev]

See, its things like this that I think separate people's views on this flick fundamentally. Where you saw him as "awesome", I saw him as a waste of a good actor. I think they were going for a Hondo vibe, who is actually one of my faves from Clone Wars, but I just don't think it pulled off well in the storyline.

Yeah my second viewing of TLJ really cemented how much I liked his character. And yet I didn't care for "Hondo" or the CW cartoon series at all, so go figure and to each his own.

 

[rushmore223]

What the hell are you talking about? Where are you seeing that, on reddit? I don't see it here. Women were in charge of the Rebellion in the original trilogy. Do you mean Kathleen Kennedy? I can only speak for myself but I don't like her cause she seems like a cruel ***** who makes bad movies. I don't "fear" her cause she's in charge.

I was about a dozen pages back, if you're not seeing it, you're not reading all the posts.

 

[crows]

Say it with toys, it'll have a bigger impact.

Correction: Isaac's agent convinced JJ to keep Poe alive.

wtf is that?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

As much as I love TFA and TLJ I do recognize that neither film has given kids a new male hero to latch onto. I even asked my own kids (11 year old daughter, 8 year old son) who their favorite male and female good guys were from the new movies and while they both instantly picked Rey as the female (Jyn got the shaft on account of "no lightsaber, Force, or spaceship" but in time they'll come around ) who did they pick among the males? Han in TFA and Luke in TLJ. No Finn. No Poe. Even for me my favorite male character after Luke in TLJ was Benicio Del Toro. That's a big change from the OT where even though it was mostly a boy's story all the girls still had Leia, a prominent hero and massive icon in her own right. No such equivalent in the new flicks yet.

Finn, Poe, and every other heroic character in RO and TLJ are a tough sell, considering we live in the golden age of supehero films. Characters without powers are just not as appealing, unless they have tons of charisma and a cool costume like Solo in the OT.

 

[xipotec]

Do you go to the movies at all? Do you not have kids? You only forgot dozens of "strong female lead" Disney movies stretching back a couple of decades. Did you not see Mulan (or plan to see its live action remake) or the Princess and the Frog or Lilo and Stitch or Tangled or Pocahontas... etc... etc... ?

So what's changed exactly in what you're saying?



Hate to tell you this, but we are (officially) no longer in a "both" or "two" gendered world.

No this is exactly what I mean....Disney has always wanted the female cash...since they court the mothers of families who usually do the majority of buying....all I am saying is with SW that’s a new thing and it seems a lot of people have a problem with that.


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[Prime Clone]

Poor Finn was portrayed as a coward and a deserter in both TFA and TLJ. Then when he's finally about to become a hero by sacrificing himself, that gets taken away from him!

 

[Niltusk]

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

I'm sorry, are we supposed to call you names now? I've lost track of how this works.

 

[Spazz]

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

I agree with you, that it's much more healthy for your daughters to see movies and tv shows where a person's gender is irrelevant to their character. Bigotry is irrational.

However, there are other criticisms of the Social Justice movement, as portrayed in The Last Jedi that are not right wing. People on the left, whether socialist or anarchist also take issue with the Social Justice movement.

Your daughters are being told to refrain from questioning authority. They're also being told that as individuals, "equality" is about whether or not they are represented in other social classes, or within the upper ranks of a hierarchy as opposed to whether or not they as individuals have the same access to resources, or the same standard of living. Your daughters are also being taught by Post Modernist feminists that logic, reason and Science are patriarchal and/or western colonial constructs that should be abandoned: That everything resulting from the enlightenment involving the demand for evidence, is just old white men trying to oppress them.

This isn't the feminism you grew up with, as a kid. This is something different, bizarre and irrational. For example, here is the most popular Left wing political philosopher and dissident, Noam Chomsky, explaining what is wrong with the Post Modernist left:

 

[rushmore223]

you wanna know what is weird?

why didnt Kathleen Kennedy hire a female director and Main writer, right?
thats weird right? strange?

look how well wonder woman did, look at how much positive feedback it got. how much praise, look at how beloved wonder woman was. wonder woman was so great that it made Gal Gadot haters turn into fans.... thats who powerful wonder woman was.


where..... where was the female director for The last Jedi or even Rogue one? why are they still hiring WHITE MALES?

thats kinda goofy right? for a movie and a producer so hellbent on "female power" it sure seems so strange that all Kennedy does is keep hiring WHITE MALE directors.... she wont even get men of color to direct her movies.....

i find that much more troubling, and of course rushmore223 will ignore this but instead argue idiotic things that have nothing to do with anything.

again, if my masculine ego is so fragile... why do i have jasmine as my sig?

I think you have her as your sig because you have a animated female fetish.

Honestly, you're not even one of the main culprits I'm referring to.

But hey, if you think I'm an idiot, like you said above, why bother reading what I have to say?

 

[klwn]

Poor Finn was portrayed as a coward and a deserter in both TFA and TLJ. Then when he's finally about to become a hero by sacrificing himself, that gets taken away from him!

Yeah what's up with that?
When they introduced Rose and it started to be implied in the conversation that he was gonna be seen as a deserter again, I couldn't believe it.
And then she electrocutes him with her ****ing wand ffs.

 

[xipotec]

Say it with toys, it'll have a bigger impact.

Correction: Isaac's agent convinced JJ to keep Poe alive.

What’s Mothma gonna do with that stick...


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[TaliBane]

wtf is that?

Some of the SW fig pics you see online are just hilarious. The person that set that up might have some... issues? I like how Mon Mothma has the stick at the ready.

No this is exactly what I mean....Disney has always wanted the female cash...since they court the mothers of families who usually do the majority of buying....all I am saying is with SW that’s a new thing and it seems a lot of people have a problem with that.


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Oh, okay - got it.

 

[Khev]

ask them who their favorite bad guy was

From the new movies? That's easy. Hands down RO Vader. I don't even have to ask as they've said as much outright.

Whoa, I have to correct myself. I just asked them again and apparently post-TLJ the new villains got a boost. My daughter picked Snoke #1 and Kylo #2 (I forgot that she even asked for Snoke and Kylo bobbleheads for Christmas, both of which I bought her of course, lol) and my son picked Kylo.

My daughter said the Vader sequence is her favorite *part* of RO but that she likes Snoke and Kylo as characters more. So there you go. I'm sure most of you will be calling Social Services for my poor parenting now.

 

[rushmore223]

If my posts make no sense, try to bare in mind that I am constantly trying to catch up on the conversation, I just don't have the kind of time some of you do (or desire) to stay on this forum, I actually have **** to do.

 

[TonTon]

I don't remember the specifics, but wasn't Poe originally supposed to die in the TIE fighter crash, and they changed the story to put him back in later on? If that was true, it certainly explains why his presence in TFA was minimal.

Yeah I heard that as well and I'm guessing it's true. If they killed him I'm not sure who the audience would have followed during the trench run. They maybe should have given him his own storyline explaining how he got out of the TIE crash, made the audience a bit more interested in him as a character. It would have been cool if they had him doing more missions in TLJ like he was at the beginning of TFA (not that that one went well ).

 

[klwn]

Whoa, I have to correct myself. I just asked them again and apparently post-TLJ the new villains got a boost. My daughter picked Snoke #1 and Kylo #2 (I forgot that she even asked for Snoke and Kylo bobbleheads for Christmas, both of which I bought her of course, lol) and my son picked Kylo.

My daughter said the Vader sequence is her favorite *part* of RO but that she likes Snoke and Kylo as characters more. So there you go. I'm sure most of you will be calling Social Services for my poor parenting now.

A kid that picks Snoke over Kylo is an awesome kid in my book
It's interesting that she wasn't disgusted by his freaking face though

 

[crows]

No this is exactly what I mean....Disney has always wanted the female cash...since they court the mothers of families who usually do the majority of buying....all I am saying is with SW that’s a new thing and it seems a lot of people have a problem with that.


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wonder woman sold to a female audience without the need for preaching or the need for adding SJW "shame men" stuff.
Steve was her equal.

the most beautiful about this Last Jedi conversation and the implications of sexism is that wonder woman COMPLETELY blows any of that out of the water and proves that people hate these characters and this producer for being horrible. not because of whats between their legs.