Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That humor =/= a bad movie. It depends on how and when it is implemented.


Unless it's a Marvel Studios movie that isn't Iron Man or Cap II: Winter Soldier. Then it is bad. Doubly so if it is written/directed by Joss the boss Whendon.

Now that I think about it, did Salvation even have humor? I can't remember a single line or scene with humor.

 

[DiFabio]

No.

Just the offscreen Christian Bale rant.

 

[GasparZizou]

No.

Just the offscreen Christian Bale rant.

Poor Peter....

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I don't understand how Bale could sucked so much in that film, considering how intense and serious he was taking the role

 

[Khev]

But even those kids goofing off had a foreboding nature when John looks at them, sees them fighting and says "we're not going to make it, are we".


Yeah there's more levity in T2, instead of "watch em' for me big buns" or "I'm gonna rip the buttons of your blouse one by one" we get a vertical pan shot of the Terminator with Bad to the Bone or John teaching the T-800 "dickwad" and "hasta la vista". I still don't think it ever abandons or is unfaithful to the first though. The Terminator retains this stoic attitude, Sarah never cracks a grin and is actually quite edgy throughout, so it makes sense that there would be some liveliness with a 10 year old wise ass kid. The first film couldn't have had that element because of the story it was telling. It was different. The humor mostly came from side characters like Ginger, Matt, Traxler, Vukovichi and Silberman.

Exactly, and I was just pointing that out.

Neither of them contained moments or dialogue that made me cringe like the non-Cameron sequels. Maybe a few ditzy Sarah bits from T1 and "I need a vacation" from T2, but nothing horrible. They both had the right tone which is why I think most people like them.

Well I do think both T1 and T2 had a couple cringeworthy moments but yes nothing on the level of Genisys. Which is why I can compare it to ROTJ. Yes it has the Space Battle, and some cool stuff with Jabba and the Speeder Bikes and two great moments when Luke is going off on Vader at the end of their duel and the funeral pyre but there's like a good hour of the movie that is quite subpar and sometimes horribly cringeworthy. Genisys is not remotely another ANH, ESB, nor is it T1 or T2, but it can go hang with its bro ROTJ and get a couple of drinks. If Last Crusade walked in they'd ask it to pull up a chair.

It's the only way to go!


Medieval T-800, Western T-800, Pirate T-800, the roaring 20s T-800. These things practically write themselves.

"Mr. Gatsby? Nice to meet you..."

 

[Wor-Gar]

I finally saw Terminator Genemess, and even though it's a piece of **** on almost every conceivable level imaginable, I was entertained by the silliness and the absurdity in what hopefully is the final chapter of what was once a great franchise. This is my new Batman and Robin.... it's so bad is good. I'll watch it again, eventually.

OK. Not seeing this.

I have no reason to want to pollute my memories of Terminators past.

 

[a-dev]

That humor =/= a bad movie. It depends on how and when it is implemented.


Unless it's a Marvel Studios movie that isn't Iron Man or Cap II: Winter Soldier. Then it is bad. Doubly so if it is written/directed by Joss the boss Whendon.

T2 knew where to put the humour and when to knock it the **** off. With T3 you were never safe from it, there was no relief from the comic relief. Action scenes would be laced with it, comedy visuals and sound effects and so on. The only time it got serious was in the last 2 ****ing minutes. I fear the same with Genisys.

Poor Peter....

I haven't heard the Bale rant in ages and never heard this particular version. Brilliant.

''Lets not take a ****in' minute lets GO again, and lets not have YOU ****in' walking in'' was always my favourite.

 

[Khev]

T2 knew where to put the humour and when to knock it the **** off. With T3 you were never safe from it, there was no relief from the comic relief. Action scenes would be laced with it, comedy visuals and sound effects and so on. The only time it got serious was in the last 2 ****ing minutes.

That is pretty much true isn't it.

Even during his big one on one battle with the TX which was like their major fight of the movie they were doing things like her picking him up by the crotch and him abruptly looking down and with a goofy "Hrmm??" expression on his face. I'm sure you'll be crushed to learn that TG erases the **** out of that movie.

 

[Khev]

Speaking of erasing movies does Genisys

Spoiler

acknowledge a single event from T2 aside from John's facial scar? It seems that by confiscating the original T-800 and melting it that they prevent Cyberdyne from getting a hold of it and then Dyson ends up developing Genisys in 2017 instead. Sarah (and therefore a young John Connor) apparently cease to exist from 1984 to 2017 so there'd be no 10 year old child for Robert Patrick to hunt. Unless I'm mistaken only the events from 1984 were ever spoken of in the future correct? We're to assume that T2 and therefore T3 never happened in any way shape or form in the new timeline?

Lee's T-1000 is obviously a tribute of sorts to the villain of T2 but otherwise that film has apparently been completed erased.

 

[bunnyfreakz]

Something baffle me so much, who send T800 pops back to save kid Sarah?

 

[Khev]

OK. Not seeing this.

I have no reason to want to pollute my memories of Terminators past.

You lightweight. ROTJ, Last Crusade, Thunderdome, Genisys; all sequels that have are "WTF" for like half the movie but are all still cool enough to watch and enjoy. So go put on your big boy pants and watch Genisys like the rest of us.

Something baffle me so much, who send T800 pops back to save kid Sarah?

Spoiler

All we know is that whoever sent Pops erased his knowledge of them in his databank so that the person or thing that sent him back cannot be targeted for termination. We also don't know who sent back Byung Hun Lee. I'm guessing that Lee might have been the one who killed Sarah's parents since it seems unlikely that Pops could have killed a T-1000 with a rocket launcher at a secluded lake. We won't really know until the sequels.

 

[DiFabio]

If I didn't know anything about T3 and all I saw was the part with the two of them going down in the bunker, then realizing that the T-850 tricked them down there so they would be safe, and the nukes going off and the music and the radio transmission and, and, and . . . I would think it was a pretty good movie.



Also, am I the only one that doesn't like how T3, Salvation and Genisys open? The title sequences (if they have them) are so generic and boring. I hate how the credits and names bleed into the actual scenes like a Joel Schumacher Batman movie. They don't feel like the start of a Terminator film, they don't even have Brad Fiedel doing the theme! They just never feel right in my opinion. The first two set a feeling, an eerie, unsettling tone. The first one has that great intro with the HK crushing all the skulls and the purple gun fire throughout the night. I love the script card you have to read with the skull in the foreground. Then the mechanized heart beat comes in and it plays the main theme. The beginning shot is of a present, rusty vehicle. T2 is even creepier. It starts on a bright day with people stuck in rush hour, it's playing this haunting, almost sad music. You see glimpses of the kids in the park, then that signature heat sound. Then BAM, we're back at the rush hour traffic and see the aftermath. Then after the little prologue sequence we see everything in flames, the 4 horsemen the of the apocalypse in the form of playground rides, then a visual cue of the endoskeleton coming through the flames. It begins with a crystal clear shot of the stainless steel grill of a present, pristine vehicle.

Spoiler

Spoiler

The other ones have nothing like this. Salvation sort of comes close when it tries to rip the text animation from 1984, but it doesn't even have the main theme.

 

[Khev]

Also, am I the only one that doesn't like how T3, Salvation and Genisys open?

I did miss the compartmentalized opening credit sequences of T1 and T2 when watching Genisys. Especially since having that awesome T1 opening fresh in my mind from seeing it on the big screen six days prior.

Brian Singer wasn't too proud to copy Donner's opening for Superman Returns, it would have been cool if Taylor did something similar.

I especially hated the part where John Connor says "Open sesame" when they enter the time machine room and the doors open to reveal "Directed by Alan Taylor."

 

[Wor-Gar]

So go put on your big boy pants and watch Genisys like the rest of us.

If I can con my fiancée into it. She's refusing to go because of the bad word-of-mouth. And there's no way I'm sitting thru Magic Mike 2 in exchange for some Genisys crap. That's liked getting boned twice in the naughty place.

 

[DiFabio]

I especially hated the part where John Connor says "Open sesame" when they enter the time machine room and the doors open to reveal "Directed by Alan Taylor."

Just caught your edit.

Yup, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I hate that in movies, it's not creative, it's lazy and distracting. If you're going to have opening credits and not just throw the viewer into the world (ala Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.) do something interesting. It doesn't have to be James Bond or Saul Bass main titles levels, but do SOMETHING.

 

[Gruson]

Loved the first half of this one but HATED the second half. Main villain was a joke and a bad call IMO.

I will take T3 and the T-X any day over Genisys.

 

[Khev]

If I can con my fiancée into it. She's refusing to go because of the bad word-of-mouth. And there's no way I'm sitting thru Magic Mike 2 in exchange for some Genisys crap. That's liked getting boned twice in the naughty place.

Ew, that does add an unfortunate wrinkle to the situation.

Just caught your edit.

I was actually hoping that I'd trick some people with that one.

Loved the first half of this one but HATED the second half. Main villain was a joke and a bad call IMO.

A bad call Gruson? These people are DEAD!

 

[Alice]

I'm surprised I liked it as well. I went into it expecting to hate it as much as I do T3 and TS. The biggest pro, in my opinion, is that it didn't mess with the "prime" timeline (T1 and T2) like T3 and TS tried to. You can easily watch TG as a "side timeline" without having to worry about their effect on the originals. Even if you choose to take it as canon, it's still has no effect whatsoever on T1 and T2. All of it is happening simultaneously in a congruent timeline.

Spoiler

Apparently, the nexus point of the Terminator universe is 1984. "Prime" Skynet created tons of alternate timelines when it did this. In the prime timeline T1 and T2 happened and they stopped Judgement Day and the war (because eff T3 and TS). All other possible timelines diverge from 84. Apparently, in most of them, rough variations of the same thing happen (John is born and Skynet loses). For the sake of argument lets's call TG's timeline #452. In timeline #452, Skynet knows the 84 T-800 didn't succeed, so it sends the T-1000 to 73 to kill kid Sarah (Theory of why the T-Pops is sent back and by who below). This and the events of TG effect the 84 T-800 (being that it's on the redesigned 800 chassis) due to T-John creating the displacement equipment, polyalloy etc. before the war even starts due to the knowledge Skynet gives him. The 800s being a bit more advanced due to the meddling explains why T-Pops is able to rip doors off of hinges with ease (something the Prime 84 T-800 had problems with when chasing Kyle and Sarah into the factory) and the #452 84 T-800 being able to shrug off the shotgun blasts like nothing (when the Prime 84 T-800 was knocked on his ass by Prime Reese's in Tech Noir) which is something I was bitching about earlier in the thread.

Spoiler

All we know is that whoever sent Pops erased his knowledge of them in his databank so that the person or thing that sent him back cannot be targeted for termination. We also don't know who sent back Byung Hun Lee. I'm guessing that Lee might have been the one who killed Sarah's parents since it seems unlikely that Pops could have killed a T-1000 with a rocket launcher at a secluded lake. We won't really know until the sequels.

Spoiler

My theory on who sent T-Pops back... T-pops. So, a T-1000 is sent to 73 to kill Sarah. I'm assuming Skynet sent him due to it knowing that the 84 mission was unsuccessful. Now, here's where the T1 style causality loop happens. A T-800 model 101 is sent back. It saves Sarah, and as Khev rightly assumes, isn't capable of killing the T-1000 with the rocket launcher. That's why the T-1000 is still on their tail in 84. This T-800, through the course of raising Sarah, becomes the T-Pops. The events of TG transpire, T-Pops learns to care for Sarah, becomes a T-1000 etc. Something happens (as suggested by mid-credits scene) to bring on Judgement Day, T-Pops survives, walks his shiny, liquid metal butt right into the time displacement chamber, pulls a model 101 off the assembly line, programs it to protect Sarah and sends it back to 73. Why? Because he cares fro Sarah. This is why T-Pops erased the knowledge of who sent him back. If he knew that he sent a model 101 to 73 (to become himself) then Skynet would know as well, and he wouldn't be able to infiltrate the time displacement chamber to send "himself" back without being destroyed by Skynet. Erego, he erased that knowledge to avoid being targeted for termination.

For the record, even though I understand the reasoning behind it in regards to the story, I still don't like the Endo redesign from a strictly aesthetic point of view.

 

[Khev]

Whoa Alice, I'm fascinated with your theory that

Spoiler

Pops reprogrammed a younger version of himself and sent himself back in time to protect Sarah out of his love for her. But then you got me thinking...what if HE was the T-1000 that killed her parents??? Two things about her memory of the lake house that don't seem to add up:

1. That Pops could have killed a T-1000 then and there

and

2. He was sporting 1984 Gargoyles.

We know he couldn't have gotten the Gargoyles in 1973 because those glasses weren't out yet. He also couldn't have "taken them with him" because you can't wear glasses through the time field. But...if you're a T-1000 you can just make them appear on your face after you slaughter a nice couple at a secluded cabin. We know that Sarah didn't actually witness Pops arriving and destroying the robot because she was hiding under the dock. What if...either her parents were Terminators (which is probably too far "out there") or...Pops targeted them himself and murdered them not because he was on a mission to terminate Sarah Connor so that Skynet could win but that he killed them because he "loved" her and wanted to be her dad????

Now that'd be a pretty effing sinister take on Pops that I don't know that the filmmakers or Schwarzenegger himself would want to commit to. It also wouldn't explain why Pops was a true non-T-1000 T-800 in 1984. So there would still be some gaps to fill in. But it's just an idea, or at least 12% of an idea...

 

[Dark_Spidey]

I hated it. I can't unsee it now.


If anything, this film makes T1 and 2 even more memorable. But it was just useless and the believability level was way below zero.


Let us remind ourselves what a Terminator film should feel like, in less than 5 minutes.

Dark, gritty, powerful, terrifying

It's not just nostalgia. They used to make em so much better