The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

[Khev]

I think that Cameron is like Lucas in that he genuinely doesn't appreciate the aesthetic of his earlier films because in his mind they fell so far short of what he was actually imagining at the time. He's even gone on record saying that if he ever made a sequel to ALIENS that a CG Queen would look so much better than the full size Stan Winston puppet. Ugh.

I know that Neil Blomkamp is a bit of a ****** who has fallen out of favor with a lot of sci-fi fans but I do think that he would have been the guy Cameron should have picked to make Terminator brutal and horrifying again without the bland modern day cartoon aesthetics as opposed to the Deadpool guy (who is an even bigger ******, lol.)

 

[MaulFan]

I suppose the difference is that Stallone isn't making sci-fi where it's probably harder to discern that boundary where you're now making a non-interactive videogame. Still, they're just constantly going way over with these sequels where I feel like - 'how can you not know?'

That early joint interview with Cameron and Miller had promise, where they said so much that was correct - and yet these trailers and what we know from plot leaks suggest we're getting just more of the same old same old as csutkakoma said. Seemingly nothing actually learned from the past 3 failed sequels.

True the sci-fi aspect does pose another variable to consider, but I still think at the heart of it all are basic film fundamentals that work no matter how grounded or fantastic a story is.

Based on that interview you mention, I feel like we may get a story that feels akin to T1 and T2, but the action and visuals will fall flat of capturing that magic, which will be more harder to accept. I feel like we'll walk away from this one thinking, they were so close but dropped the ball, compared to Salvation or Genisys where the feeling was more like, this isn't even close.

 

[jye4ever]

I have to say, I almost feel like Stallone needs to be involved in the filmmaking if there's to be any hope of feeling like it's part of the series. This film is showing heavy influence from modern action films and shows no understanding or connection with the originals and what made them so popular. Stallone at least seems to get how to modernize these old franchises without losing what made them work in the first place. Cameron is so deep in Avatar I think he's out of touch with what he did so well back when he didn't have all these crazy CGI tools available.

Great point.

What was your take on Rambo 5 anyways why you hiding your review lol

I suppose the difference is that Stallone isn't making sci-fi where it's probably harder to discern that boundary where you're now making a non-interactive videogame. Still, they're just constantly going way over with these sequels where I feel like - 'how can you not know?'

That early joint interview with Cameron and Miller had promise, where they said so much that was correct - and yet these trailers and what we know from plot leaks suggest we're getting just more of the same old same old as csutkakoma said. Seemingly nothing actually learned from the past 3 failed sequels.

How does it go again....

Fool me once shame on you.....Fool me twice....

I think that Cameron is like Lucas in that he genuinely doesn't appreciate the aesthetic of his earlier films because in his mind they fell so far short of what he was actually imagining at the time. He's even gone on record saying that if he ever made a sequel to ALIENS that a CG Queen would look so much better than the full size Stan Lee puppet. Ugh.

I know that Neil Blomkamp is a bit of a ****** who has fallen out of favor with a lot of sci-fi fans but I do think that he would have been the guy Cameron should have picked to make Terminator brutal and horrifying again without the bland modern day cartoon aesthetics as opposed to the Deadpool guy (who is an even bigger ******, lol.)

Bingo!

I have no doubt that NB > TM


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[a-dev]

I now associate Blomkamp with 'things that just don't pan out' Alien 5/Robocop sequel. Though I think I heard the Robocop sequel might still happen but Blomkamp isn't attached anymore.

As for Cameron saying that a CG Queen Alien would look better than the Stan Winston animatronic. Well, I can only point to all those CG Terminator endoskeletons since T2 - none have had the impact of those puppets and animatronics of the first two movies. Christ they can't even photograph a real endoskull to use on the poster, it's a CG image and you can easily tell. Yes you can do more with CGI but hardly anyone seems to have the necessary restraint these days to stop it becoming a cartoon.

 

[Khev]

Oops yes I meant Stan Winston. I suppose a CG Queen *would* be better than a full size puppet of Stan Lee, lol.

 

[Khev]

Here's what he told Vanity Fair during an interview to promote the 2010 Avatar re-release:

"I can look back at the visual effects in Aliens, for example, and how much better we could do the Alien Queen now as a CG character; and how limited that film seems to me in terms of technique. But it doesn’t create an urge in me to go back and try to fix that movie because it’s completely a creature of its time. Every movie is a technological snapshot of the moment it was made."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw2KPjOdgaAlxthRMIhqYfzV&ust=1570036241634866

"Fix" ALIENS? Fix it??? Just crazy that he sees the film that way.

 

[jye4ever]

Aliens needs as much fixing as Jessica Biel does lol


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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

They should really fix JAWS. That fake looking rubber shark wearing lipstick is dated.

 

[Khev]

Aliens needs as much fixing as Jessica Biel does lol

Yep, lol.

And if anyone wants to see an example of Cameron "fixing" one of his past films here you go:

lol

 

[a-dev]

Here's what he told Vanity Fair during an interview to promote the 2010 Avatar re-release:

"I can look back at the visual effects in Aliens, for example, and how much better we could do the Alien Queen now as a CG character; and how limited that film seems to me in terms of technique. But it doesn’t create an urge in me to go back and try to fix that movie because it’s completely a creature of its time. Every movie is a technological snapshot of the moment it was made."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw2KPjOdgaAlxthRMIhqYfzV&ust=1570036241634866

"Fix" ALIENS? Fix it??? Just crazy that he sees the film that way.

Are there any bad shots involving the Alien Queen that anyone can think of? I feel like what was presented on screen successfully counteracted any technological shortcomings - through lighting, great scaling of miniatures, brevity of shots and so on. He must be talking about stuff he wanted to do but just couldn't do at all.

 

[MaulFan]

He’s probably thinking the fight with the queen could have been more visually dynamic with CG, and sure, but that probably would have lost the intensity you get from the simplicity and closeness of it hiding the practical effects.

It’d be like JAWS without the barrels cuz you could see the shark anytime. Limits have historically led to brilliance, CG offers so many options that I feel it takes creativity away and fills it with “this would look so cool and thanks to CG it can be done.”

 

[jye4ever]

They should really fix JAWS. That fake looking rubber shark wearing lipstick is dated.

lulz

Yep, lol.

And if anyone wants to see an example of Cameron "fixing" one of his past films here you go:

View attachment 467419

lol

He?s probably thinking the fight with the queen could have been more visually dynamic with CG, and sure, but that probably would have lost the intensity you get from the simplicity and closeness of it hiding the practical effects.

It?d be like JAWS without the barrels cuz you could see the shark anytime. Limits have historically led to brilliance, CG offers so many options that I feel it takes creativity away and fills it with ?this would look so cool and thanks to CG it can be done.?

Didn?t we already get a full cgi queen in AvP




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[MaulFan]

We did, and her presence carried nowhere near the awe of the ‘86 queen.

 

[Alice]

Limits have historically led to brilliance

I think Cameron doesn't quite get that his guerrilla style film making is what gives his earlier movies a lot of their charm. Most of what he accomplished wasn't as easy as it is now when you can just have an idea, and have a CGI artist realize it no matter the scale. If there was an idea, you had to solve the puzzle of how to realize it, and sometimes that called for in-camera trickery. It also made you plan shots around practical effects, and some of those shots are iconic parts of cinema history. Mirrors, reverse motion or simply turning the camera upside down. When I watched those old movies I constantly had the question "How did they do that?" in my head. Nowadays, I don't have that question, because the answer is always CGI.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

JAWS coming out of a toilet and attacking people can only be accomplish using CGI, therefore CGI wins!!

 

[Sachiel]

As for Cameron saying that a CG Queen Alien would look better than the Stan Winston animatronic. Well, I can only point to all those CG Terminator endoskeletons since T2 - none have had the impact of those puppets and animatronics of the first two movies. Christ they can't even photograph a real endoskull to use on the poster, it's a CG image and you can easily tell. Yes you can do more with CGI but hardly anyone seems to have the necessary restraint these days to stop it becoming a cartoon.

The animatronics were terrifying mutha****ers.

 

[jye4ever]

Like that now infamous stunt in T1 where the Terminator is on the hood of the car and the brick wall is moving not the vehicle.

It?s not that Cameron has forgotten what he learned from his low budget days it?s that practical filmmaking is surpassing cgi in cost.


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[Robopredinator]

The animatronics were terrifying mutha****ers.

Easily more terrifying than anything Genisys, Salvation, Rise of the Machines or Dark Fate has shown.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The animatronics were terrifying mutha****ers.

I never found it scary because how slow he moved. It's like the Planet of the Apes monkeys from the original film, they all moved like people and weren't even strong, whereas a real life monkey will kill you easily and you can't outrun it. I think the T 1000 was a major improvement in that regard, and the new CGI stuff can in theory make a more threatening villain, yet they don't because it often looks fake or the main characters have a plot armor, so the upgraded villain just look incompetent. Just look at the Dark Fate T Juan - 1000. He's getting his ass kicked in every single shot....he's the most advanced punching bag ever made.

 

[a-dev]

I never found it scary because how slow he moved. It's like the Planet of the Apes monkeys from the original film, they all moved like people and weren't even strong, whereas a real life monkey will kill you easily and you can't outrun it. I think the T 1000 was a major improvement in that regard, and the new CGI stuff can in theory make a more threatening villain, yet they don't because it often looks fake or the main characters have a plot armor, so the upgraded villain just look incompetent. Just look at the Dark Fate T Juan - 1000. He's getting his ass kicked in every single shot....he's the most advanced punching bag ever made.

As a child I found the T1 endoskeleton scary, or at least I was in fear for the characters as it was going after them. Even in that state and with it limping along I felt like they were outmatched, it couldn't seem to be killed whereas Reese was by now a wreck. So perhaps the scariness was as much in the vulnerability of the heroes.

Now there doesn't appear to be any vulnerability in the heroes. Grace seems to be handling this Terminator pretty damn well, beating it senseless in at least 3 different encounters from what I can tell. As if she wasn't enough in comes Sarah Connor kicking its ass too. Seems like they don't even need Arnie but he's there anyway so there's 3 protectors. I'm more concerned for the villain. Is he going to be OK?

I see that Mr H chap on youtube has been making the same observation.