The Avengers VS The Dark Knight

[Alex Logan]

That would seriously cause an outcry . Make aqua man gay nobody would care anyway .

I think there would be an outcry no matter who they made gay, if the character has been around for a long time.

Making Aquaman guy would be just as bad as The Joker or Batman. He may not be as popular or well-loved, but the reason being is that he's had a long standing relationship with a woman. So now it becomes more about making him gay just to do it, rather than adding anything real to the character. And let's be honest, no one wants a gay male superhero or supervillain. A gay or bisexual female character is whole different story.

 

[DarkMagic]

And what the hell is the point in making someone else gay when Batwoman is already a lesbian?

It's similar to the question: What's the point of having another black character when we've already got Static Shock, Steel etc..

I think there would be an outcry no matter who they made gay, if the character has been around for a long time.

Making Aquaman guy would be just as bad as The Joker or Batman. He may not be as popular or well-loved, but the reason being is that he's had a long standing relationship with a woman. So now it becomes more about making him gay just to do it, rather than adding anything real to the character. And let's be honest, no one wants a gay male superhero or supervillain. A gay or bisexual female character is whole different story.

Doesn't this seem biased to you? You are making the assumption that there are no gay comic book readers, and that the straight readers would only be interested in reading about the typical gay/bisexual female fantasy. What about gay comic readers? What about straight female comic readers? What about straight male readers who don't mind the sexual orientation of the character as long as the comic is good? The entire statement smacks of "no one wants to read this---all comic readers are just like me, straight males."

As for the argument that it couldn't be Aquaman, or Nightwing, or any other character who has been established as hetero---in real life, there have been several cases of people who have been hetero-married for years, and even had kids, who eventually come out as gay.

 

[DarkMagic]

On topic -

The Avengers has beaten TDK in the box office--

and when asked directly in the form of this SSF board poll, the Avengers wins again--

But look at the indirect SSF poll to date:

The Avengers thread = 919 pages; 9,186 replies; 268,033 views

The Avengers 2 thread = 14 pages; 134 replies; 3,083 views

The Avengers VS The Dark Knight thread = 117 pages; 1,161 replies; 17,067 views

The total for the above threads = 1050 pages; 10,481 replies; 288,183 views

......

The Dark Knight Rises thread = 1662 pages; 16,613 replies; 452,906 views

TDKR by itself provokes more interest and discussion (be it anticipation for the film or hating on the "nolancompoops and polesquatters") than every other Avengers thread, combined...even when Avengers is combined in a versus topic against TDK!

Also note that the longest-running Avengers thread had more build up time (started on June 25, 2008, while the TDKR thread was started about six months later), and more prequel movies to generate discussion about it.

 

[Alex Logan]

It's similar to the question: What's the point of having another black character when we've already got Static Shock, Steel etc..

Doesn't this seem biased to you? You are making the assumption that there are no gay comic book readers, and that the straight readers would only be interested in reading about the typical gay/bisexual female fantasy. What about gay comic readers? What about straight female comic readers? What about straight male readers who don't mind the sexual orientation of the character as long as the comic is good? The entire statement smacks of "no one wants to read this---all comic readers are just like me, straight males."

As for the argument that it couldn't be Aquaman, or Nightwing, or any other character who has been established as hetero---in real life, there have been several cases of people who have been hetero-married for years, and even had kids, who eventually come out as gay.

I could see how you might think my statment was biased. I can assure you it's not though. I'm for equality as a matter of fact. I think everyone should have the same inalienable rights no matter what race, creed, sex or orientation. I'm just giving my own opinion and stating what others have said about the topic up to this point.

I know there are gay comic book readers and I'm very confidant that most staright male readers do not want to read about a gay male hero or villain that's been around for years. The reason is because they know the character and altering something like that is so drastic that it would alienate them from the book itself. Changing the sexual orientation of a character that's already been established was the point I was making.

I also know that all readers are "not like me" and I'm sure there are some readers that wouldn't mind reading about a gay character. Having said that everyone here knows that making Batman or the Joker gay is not very favorable to most male readers. On the other hand, changing the sexual orientation of a female character is very favorable to most male readers. Why? Because the idea is appealing and they can relate it. That's what liking these heroes is all about.

DC making a chacter gay is fine with me. Just create a new character and make the fact that he or she is gay part of the character. They've already done it once and it worked out fine.

 

[DarkMagic]

Cool. And I definitely see your point too...for most straight, male readers, naturally a straight, male character would be more relatable.

 

[Alex Logan]

On topic -

The Avengers has beaten TDK in the box office--

and when asked directly in the form of this SSF board poll, the Avengers wins again--

But look at the indirect SSF poll to date:

The Avengers thread = 919 pages; 9,186 replies; 268,033 views

The Avengers 2 thread = 14 pages; 134 replies; 3,083 views

The Avengers VS The Dark Knight thread = 117 pages; 1,161 replies; 17,067 views

The total for the above threads = 1050 pages; 10,481 replies; 288,183 views

......

The Dark Knight Rises thread = 1662 pages; 16,613 replies; 452,906 views

TDKR by itself provokes more interest and discussion (be it anticipation for the film or hating on the "nolancompoops and polesquatters") than every other Avengers thread, combined...even when Avengers is combined in a versus topic against TDK!

Also note that the longest-running Avengers thread had more build up time (started on June 25, 2008, while the TDKR thread was started about six months later), and more prequel movies to generate discussion about it.

It doesn't matter... people will still say Avengers is better and it wins. As I've said before, Avengers is winning because it's here now. Most moviegoers live in the moment. They don't remember how good a film was from four years ago. I had a comic store owner tell me that Avengers is the "best comic book movie ever" yesterday. Do I agree? Not at all, I think it's the "best comic book movie you can geek over ever." And it should be noted that I love Avengers.

The Avengers doesn't the staying power that TDK had. The Avengers doesn't have the staying power that Iron Man had. And it doesn't have the staying power that Spiderman 2 had. In my mind it's not on the same level.

But... this is very telling.

 

[Alex Logan]

Cool. And I definitely see your point too...for most straight, male readers, naturally a straight, male character would be more relatable.

 

[thenammagazine]

TDKR by itself provokes more interest and discussion (be it anticipation for the film or hating on the "nolancompoops and polesquatters") than every other Avengers thread, combined...even when Avengers is combined in a versus topic against TDK!

Also note that the longest-running Avengers thread had more build up time (started on June 25, 2008, while the TDKR thread was started about six months later), and more prequel movies to generate discussion about it.

Going this route is flawed considering TDK has had years worth of discussion to bang out all those posts. Sorry, try again.

 

[DarkMagic]

Going this route is flawed considering TDK has had years worth of discussion to bang out all those posts. Sorry, try again.

Ah you noticed that I didn't include the TDK thread in this.

1. I didn't feel like digging that far back.

2. If the TDK thread was included, it would have been a massacre.

But I you missed the part where I said that the Avengers thread was started six months before the TDKR thread....which is odd, because you included that in the part of my post that you quoted.

 

[thenammagazine]

Ah you noticed that I didn't include the TDK thread in this.

1. I didn't feel like digging that far back.

2. If the TDK thread was included, it would have been a massacre.

But I you missed the part where I said that the Avengers thread was started six months before the TDKR thread....which is odd, because you included that in the part of my post that you quoted.

Look at the last sentence of the 1st paragraph of the post I quoted.

 

[DarkMagic]

Going this route is flawed considering TDK has had years worth of discussion to bang out all those posts. Sorry, try again.

Look at the last sentence of the 1st paragraph of the post I quoted.

I honestly don't see your point, and would sincerely appreciate some clarification. (Here's where you call me ignorant, or something along those lines right? )

If your point is that TDK had more time than the Avengers to generate that many posts, I'd again like to emphasize two things:

1. I did not compare the TDK thread to the Avengers thread (but I can if you like). I am comparing the TDKR thread by itself with the Avengers thread (plus the addition of the Avengers 2, and Avengers vs TDK thread, to help it out) and Avengers is still short.


2. If your point is that TDKR had more time to generate interest and thus, that high post count...again, the Avengers thread pre-dates the TDKR thread by six months, yet has less posts.

 

[YoNoSe]

The yardsticks are getting pretty warped in here.

 

[thenammagazine]

I honestly don't see your point, and would sincerely appreciate some clarification. (Here's where you call me ignorant, or something along those lines right? )

If your point is that TDK had more time than the Avengers to generate that many posts, I'd again like to emphasize two things:

1. I did not compare the TDK thread to the Avengers thread (but I can if you like). I am comparing the TDKR thread by itself with the Avengers thread (plus the addition of the Avengers 2, and Avengers vs TDK thread, to help it out) and Avengers is still short.


2. If your point is that TDKR had more time to generate interest and thus, that high post count...again, the Avengers thread pre-dates the TDKR thread by six months, yet has less posts.

TDKR by itself provokes more interest and discussion (be it anticipation for the film or hating on the "nolancompoops and polesquatters") than every other Avengers thread, combined...even when Avengers is combined in a versus topic against TDK!

Also note that the longest-running Avengers thread had more build up time (started on June 25, 2008, while the TDKR thread was started about six months later), and more prequel movies to generate discussion about it.

 

[DarkMagic]

Yes...exactly.

The simplest way I can phrase it is:

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread by itself.

also...

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread combined with two other threads.

I actually think we're in agreement here.

 

[Alex Logan]

Yes...exactly.

The simplest way I can phrase it is:

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread by itself.

also...

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread combined with two other threads.

I actually think we're in agreement here.

Very good, but I'm sure there will something more for him argue about.

 

[jye4ever]

wow, this silliness still continues.



good

 

[Voorhees27]

wow, this silliness still continues.



good

Zip it!

 

[Sachiel]

Yes...exactly.

The simplest way I can phrase it is:

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread by itself.

also...

The TDKR thread by itself has more posts than the Avengers thread combined with two other threads.

I actually think we're in agreement here.

Considering a lot of the crap posted in the TDKR thread it is nothing to brag about.

 

[InspectorSpacetime]

I don't really like this whole "one versus the other" thing. They're two different kinds of movies. I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises yet, but I liked The Avengers. I love The Dark Knight, it's one of my favorite movies ever so I guess yeah, on that level I prefer it but why can't we enjoy more than one thing? The Avengers is a popcorn movie the whole family can enjoy. TDK/TDKR is a dark, serious film that some kids might not enjoy. I used to subscribe to this whole "meh Avengers" thing but, when you take it for what it is it's pretty damn good. I feel the same way about people comparing 89 Batman and The Dark Knight. We can all like both.

 

[IrishJedi]

And here it is. Now the topic has reached its nadir. "One thread is longer than the other!" REALLY???

Anyway, of course the TDKR threads are bigger... This place is still inundated with a ton of "TDKids" that joined the boards en masse in 2008. They're mostly still here. Kind of like what happens with the U.S. borders in the Southwest.