Statue The Crack of Doom Diorama

[Trevolver]

Hey THANKS a lot Andy-you know your words mean a lot to me!!! truly!

Trev

 

[Mookeylama]

again i'll ask what this debate over the scene is about. it's been many years since i read the books. i know of certain differences like the wrong finger (wrong hand too) getting bitten off Frodo. that in the book Gollum basically just stumbles and looses his balance rather than falling while struggling. there was a road leading up Doom i the movie (i think lol). i don't know of any Christian good/evil thing that some are talking about. please explain.

 

[Seretur]

I wouldn't even remotely describe myself as a purist. Even Tolkien wouldn't -- he's on record as suggesting various changes to the storyline, to help streamline it and make it read better on film. (He particularly advocated taking out the entire Helm's Deep subplot as extraneous to the main story; and we saw how deeply PJ took THAT to heart.) "Purism" is a geekdom phenomenon; I'm professionally involved in translating Tolkien's work, so I suppose my inclination is, for the lack of a better word, scholarly.

What I feel is sadly missing is the comprehension of the intent behind the work; when you know what you want to say, it's usually easy to say it fast and to the point. And that's something that seems to be more and more lacking in the movies as they progress. For every awesome shot of the Pelennor Fields, we get Gandalf saying things like (I'm paraphrasing) "we shouldn't go fight Sauron at the Black Gates, it is folly". (Gandalf! I ask you! Sent by the Valar for the succour of the free peoples of Middle-earth! Sauron's Adversary himself!) But I do like the way Gandalf the White looks, or the way the Elven Archer looks (even if those fought for Lothlórien, not Helm's Deep, in the book), or indeed Arwen, especially as portrayed by Mrs. Tyler. Strangely, the less studio pressure there was (after FOTR, the movies were basically in the black), the more unnecessary changes kept being introduced. There's only one word for it: hubris.

The lack of narrative point extends all the way to the Sammath Naur scene. Yes, the whole point of it is that Frodo kept Gollum alive against his (and Sam's) better judgement, and now Gollum seems to have foiled his entire Quest. But Frodo's pity, in the end, delivers him from evil. Should it have been exactly as in the book? Perhaps not -- it might have seemed cheesy to have Gollum just slip to his doom, and thus achieve the happy resolution of the whole story. But should it have become just another in a series of action moments, of tests of physical strength? There must have been a wiser way to do it, starting with Frodo having pity for his Sam, and not sending him "home" at the Stairs, for the love of Eru. The movie Frodo is probably the most misrepresented character of them all, and that's not helped by Mr. Wood's youth and lack of subtlety.

Again, this is not the worst departure from the text, but is the one made in the most sensitive part of the entire story. The filmmakers have to answer for the choices they made; I'm just sad for the collectible choice that was made, in this case. This piece could've been a sculpture that encapsulated the entire complex web of emotion and motivation that underlies the scene; but the choice of the exact moment to depict has seriously undermined those aspects of it, for all the brilliant work Trevor has so clearly put into it.

Would it have been so bad to just have Frodo holding the Ring there, debating whether to put it on, as Gollum lurks behind? Or to have Gollum standing triumphant behind the maimed Frodo, holding the Ring up? Both movie and book moments, more iconic, and perfectly relevant.

And that's it from me for tonight, I have to go take care of the baby...

 

[Shai]

Man those LOTR Fans are getting geekier and geekier by the day...Remind me of the SW ones ..... I think the statue looks awesome !!!! its actually one of my favorite part of the movie..when both evil fights against each other at hell's gate !!! I dont care that its not in the book...who reads books anyway?!?! ...yeah, I've never read the LOTR books, and I dont care..I've seen the movies and I like this scene....ohhhhh i'm a blasphemer !!! This is probably one of the first lotr collectible I may buy....Nobody mentions that it looks much better than any of those crappy weta likeness.....Sideshow didnt need Weta at all....ohhh yeah..I said it....

All hail Trevolver,sculptor extraordinaire !!!!



And concerning the crack of Doom.....



Finally a place where the Finger of Doom can enjoy itself !!!!

 

[tomandshell]

again i'll ask what this debate over the scene is about.

Book version:

1. Frodo abandons the quest and claims the ring as his own, slipping it on his finger.
2. Gollum attacks invisible Frodo, and a struggle ensues. (Gollum is seen by Sam "on the edge of the abyss...fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe.")
3. In the midst of the fight, Gollum bites the ring from Frodo's finger.
4. After taking the Ring from Frodo by force, Gollum immediately falls over the edge with no time for interference from Frodo.
5. The Ring is destroyed.

"Suddenly Sam saw Gollum's long hands draw upwards to his mouth; his white fangs gleamed, and then snapped as they bit. Frodo gave a cry, and there he was, fallen upon his knees at the chasm's edge. But Gollum, dancing like a mad thing, held aloft the ring, a finger still thrust within its circle. It shone now as if verily it was wrought of living fire.

'Precious, precious, precious!' Gollum cried. 'My Precious! O my Precious!' And with that, even as his eyes were lifted up to gloat on his prize, he stepped too far, toppled, wavered for a moment on the brink, and then with a shriek he fell. Out of the depths came his last wail Precious, and he was gone."

Film version:

1. Frodo abandons the quest and claims the ring as his own, slipping it on his finger.
2. Gollum attacks invisible Frodo, and a struggle ensues.
3a. In the midst of the fight, Gollum bites the ring from Frodo's finger.
3b. Now visible, Frodo engages Gollum in a struggle for control of the ring.
4. As a result of Frodo's counterattack, Gollum eventually falls over the edge along with Frodo.
4b. Gollum drops to his death as a result of Frodo's attack and Sam rescues Frodo.
5. The Ring is destroyed.

 

[WetaWork]

Man those LOTR Fans are getting geekier and geekier by the day...Remind me of the SW ones ..... I think the statue looks awesome !!!! its actually one of my favorite part of the movie..when both evil fights against each other at hell's gate !!! I dont care that its not in the book...who reads books anyway?!?! ...yeah, I've never read the LOTR books, and I dont care..I've seen the movies and I like this scene....ohhhhh i'm a blasphemer !!! This is probably one of the first lotr collectible I may buy....Nobody mentions that it looks much better than any of those crappy weta likeness.....Sideshow didnt need Weta at all....ohhh yeah..I said it....

All hail Trevolver,sculptor extraordinaire !!!!



And concerning the crack of Doom.....



Finally a place where the Finger of Doom can enjoy itself !!!!

Isn't it time for you to drink the water of life?

 

[Khev]

I'm awestruck! Trevor that is the BEST Frodo sculpt I've ever seen! I love it, and the wife does too. My favorite movie of all time, and one of the most pivotal scenes of the film captured masterfully. I don't know if I'll be able to pass this up.

Trevor (or Dusty or Andy), can any of you say if these dioramas will have exclusive versions like the Marvel dios?

 

[Khev]

Having an angry and violent Frodo abandoning his sense of pity and hope of redemption and striking out against Gollum to reclaim the ring sums up all of this high drama quite nicely.

The question remains--is that how I want Frodo immortalized in my collection?

Don't you own the exclusive Dagobah Luke? Because that Vader head probably represents his pinnacle failure. Like Luke in the PF line I'm sure there will be more than one Frodo in the diorama series. I don't think that owning this piece would take away from the heroism depicted in what we'll probably see down the road.

 

[tomandshell]

Actually, I don't have room for the Vader helmet where I have my Luke & Yoda on display!! But it is a great piece of work, just like this diorama.

But in comparing the sagas, this would be more like the confrontation in Return of the Jedi, where the Emperor tempts luke to strike him down, so that his journey towards the Dark Side would be complete. Then Luke says, "OK, fine!!" and reaches out with the force and draws his lightsaber to himself and ignites it, giving himself fully to the Dark Side of the Force and advancing on the Emperor to kill him. In the ensuing attack, Luke grapples with the Emperor and we are shocked to see them both go over the edge of the catwalk. The Emperor falls to his death while Vader goes to Luke, who is barely hanging on and ashamed at his inability to control himself in the face of temptation. His utter failure at the critical moment has taken from him the very will to live. However, looking up into the face of his father, he grabs hold and is lifted to safety.

Of course, that's not how it happened. Luke ultimately learned from his failure in the cave, and when I see that helmet, I also think of how Luke passed the test when faced with the same confrontation in "reality," and tossed his saber aside, refusing to kill his father.

The Luke/Vader and Frodo/Gollum relationships both show a younger character contrasted with an older character who faced the same temptation and made the wrong choice. Luke sees himself in Vader just as Frodo sees himself in Gollum. Both Luke and Frodo speak openly of their hope that they might play a part in the redemption of the other. Both pairs end up in a confrontation in the final film. But where Luke ultimately turns off his saber and refuses to fight, Frodo keeps on fighting and pushes Gollum over the edge to his death. No redemption for Gollum!! So if we want to push the religious tones of these stories, non-Christian Lucas ultimately tells a story with more redemptive possibilities than Christian Tolkien, where the corrupt half of the pairing is not saved in the end, but dropped to his fiery death.

 

[Deadly Dagger]

oMg..I feel like I'm back at school...I'm outta here...

 

[Bannister]

oMg..I feel like I'm back at school...I'm outta here...

 

[tomandshell]

oMg..I feel like I'm back at school...I'm outta here...

OK, OK, I get it...

 

[Bannister]

OK, OK, I get it...

What are you like 8 Tom? How immature.

 

[tomandshell]

What are you like 8 Tom? How immature.

OMG!! pwn3d!!!!!

 

[Bannister]

OMG!! pwn3d!!!!!

 

[Khev]

non-Christian Lucas ultimately tells a story with more redemptive possibilities than Christian Tolkien, where the corrupt half of the pairing is not saved in the end, but dropped to his fiery death.

Well "fiery death" for those not redeemed isn't exactly an un-Christian story element. But I don't see Frodo pushing Gollum over in the film version. I see them both fighting for the ring, grasping at it, and going over the side together. Frodo just has enough sense to finally let it go and grab the edge while his adversary does not.

 

[Darklord Dave]

there is a hefty volume of Tolkien's letters in which he expounds on the meaning of the scene in the Cracks of Doom in very great detail. Nothing of what I wrote were my personal conjectures, but rather hasty and compressed digests of what Tolkien himself said so much better. Add to that the background information from the History of Middle-earth making-of volumes, and there's all the evidence of the author's intent one can ever need.

Not that I'm completely invested in more modern literary criticism, but taking into consideration even the stated intention of the author sometimes detracts from the work itself. Isn't it better to let each consumer, be it for a movie or a book, take what they can from it rather than have an interpretation forced down their throat?

____

And yeah, it's 1/9th scale - that's what they said it was, right?

 

[gtb]

And you call yourselves big LOTR film fans That's the name of the DVD chapter when they have the tussle!

There is a proper Elvish name for that place isn't it?? Orodruin or something??

 

[Calle_Sandell]

I think it looks great, Though I with many of you that SS choose the wrong piece to start of the line..

I will however try to be a completist of this line, I just hope Sideshow won't make those super exclusive 50 limited pieces... It will make it impossible to be a completist!!!

 

[KrisSolo]

WOW! Well after all the bashing of the piece - be it critical or bible - I'd have to say I'm pretty impressed with what little we've seen! Didn't think I'd care for these, but if the price is right I'm ordering.

Always loved this part of the book, and I actually LIKED PJ's embelishments. A truly heart-renching scene of pity and despair - right up my street! How anyone can think this isn't iconic is beyond me...

:chew :emperor :chew :emperor