The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Fernandofan08]

Someone (I think Fabio) once posted a link that posted all the times comic Batman either killed or allowed someone to die, even within the last 20-30 years. He's done it.

I think Animated Series Batman is better than the vast bulk of his comic incarnations.

BTAS is THE purest definition of Batman IMO.

Batman did kill two-face in the end. He nearly killed himself but Batman landed better. Ra's, Batman didnt kill. But I agree with the save someone regardless of what they do.

its weird though because If I was batman, id let Ra's die. but id feel guilty for killing two-face and joker. because they are a direct result of my actions. He was prepared to let Bane die before Talia sorted his mask out. he didnt have to save Bane either. Its all a contradiction really. Batman went out his way to save joker many times and grieved after he died in AC.

 

[intothevoid]

That's my favorite scene. Just seeing the way Daggett freaks out when Bane just rests his hand on his shoulder. You really get a sense for just how scary he is then.

We all knew Loki was going to lose and all of the Avengers were going to come out of it just fine thanks to sequels already in the works. With TDKR, we didn't have a clue if Bane was actually going to take out the Bat or not. So he was indeed seen as being scarier because of that. So I'd say Bane was the scarier villian, but Loki seemed more cunning. But in the end they were both just pawns.

Talia was in charge, it was her plan.

Bane was not a pawn
You guys still don't get it

Even in the script it explains that Banes motivation to destroy Batman and Gotham is the fact that Ra's saved him from the prison and was then killed by Batman

Him and Talia wanted the same thing - different from he was driven by what Talia wanted and was controlled by Talia

The way I saw it - Bane is the physical leader of the LoS and Talia is the spiritual leader

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I saw it differently void.

Bane is a ____ing badass and Talia is hot.

 

[jye4ever]

True, but the Joker wasn't the one who murdered Bruce Wayne's parents in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight. If it had, I'm sure Bruce's personality wouldn't be much different in the films.

Let's not forget that Bruce Wayne tried to blow Joe Chill away with a hand gun and showed much dissatisfaction when he was beaten to the punch by the hit woman. It took Rachel's speeches to convince him that he was wrong and even then he still had his own sense of justice.

What if the killer remained anonymous to the Bale Batman until he was a 30 something year old adult, then, like Keaton he discovered his parent's killer? Lets not for get that the Keaton Batman didn't start to kill until he found out the identity of the murderer that took his childhood away. He left them for the police, beat them unconscious, left them hanging for the authorities. Then when he figures out that Jack Napier killed Thomas and Martha, the gloves are off and the gauntlets are thrown and he shows the Joker and his goons no mercy.

That is what's so great about all this, different circumstances lead to different outcomes and personality traits within the story. Both versions have the same idea of trying to eliminate crime and bring justice but have been brought up in different ways. The only similarity being that their parents died and they've drawn inspiration from Bats.


It's all good stuff.

Damn you're good son, wear that that Av and Sig with honor.

 

[jye4ever]

Bane was not a pawn
You guys still don't get it

Even in the script it explains that Banes motivation to destroy Batman and Gotham is the fact that Ra's saved him from the prison and was then killed by Batman

Him and Talia wanted the same thing - different from he was driven by what Talia wanted and was controlled by Talia

The way I saw it - Bane is the physical leader of the LoS and Talia is the spiritual leader

So Bane was just a horny dude looking to get some Talia spirit, I get it now.

 

[The Josh]

Bane was 95% badass but was denutted by the lame ass twist at the end.

 

[jye4ever]

Bane was 95% badass but was denutted by the lame ass twist at the end.

Josh, did you just say denutted.

That's funny, same thing happened to me on a certain wedding day.

 

[The Josh]

I did.

Not touching that one.

 

[jye4ever]

I did.

Not touching that one.

I looked up word denutted:

de-nut-ted [d-nut-id]: "Hathaways effect on Nam"

 

[intothevoid]

I saw it differently void.

Bane is a ____ing badass and Talia is hot.

'tis true as well

Bane was 95% badass but was denutted by the lame ass twist at the end.

What about the twist was lame? That the child was Talia?

Also - BOTH Bane and Talia were born in the pit. Bane clearly was much older, but I imagine his connection to Talia had a lot to do that parallel in their birth.

 

[The Josh]

Yeah, as I've said before he spends the whole movie selling the child is bane. I know it's just the assumption of Bruce but that's how Nolan sells it. Then at the end it's oh by the way the child was this nobody girl that you didn't gives a real rats backside about. He did it in order to make her character important, because she didn't matter much up until that point in the story. You could tel something was off about her so her working with Bane wasn't a surprise, but as I said Nolan tried to give her more importance with making her the child. At that point you've totally for me taken a lot away from what you spent an entire movie doing with Bane. Yes, he's still evil and pretty badass but he had a totally awesome backstory until that point. Plus I don't want bane having feelings for someone. He's a freaking merc who has no problem killing so he doesn't have to have a soft side. That's why it's lame for me.

 

[Fernandofan08]

'tis true as well



What about the twist was lame? That the child was Talia?

Also - BOTH Bane and Talia were born in the pit. Bane clearly was much older, but I imagine his connection to Talia had a lot to do that parallel in their birth.

Bane was never said to be born in the pit though? Bale was asking about Bane, and they were telling the story of Talia. I suspected this was for the narrative to keep the normal audience unaware of the twist, which if you watched the film you could tell that the child was Talia and that Bane was the guy protecting her. Just through the fighting style; rage, grabbing the guys head just like he did to the man in the Stock Exchange. Combine that with Talia's mark on her back which Bruce feels, you knew it was Talia.

I just assumed the doctor and the other guy refused to talk about the child as a girl and just let Bruce think it was Bane. Then, Bane assumed leader of the League of Shadows after Ra's death and probably rallying the League after they were leaderless. Talia disbanded with Bane, and her Fathers death brought the two back.

See this really, is where my problem with the trilogy is. The 3 films are awsome, but like Metal Gear Solid 4, Return of the Jedi... it felt like the 4th act. It felt like MGS1, MGS2 *missing MGS* MGS4. SWANH, SWTESB *missing star wars* SWROTJ.

After Dark knight, there shouldve been a film where it is dealing with Batman as a vigilante and then leading to his retirement before this film.

I dont buy that Batman JUST retired straight after Dark Knight. I believe he still fought crime. I believe he still hunted criminals. Wouldve been awsome if we had Black Mask/Sionis as a main villain, deadshot as his hired gun trying to take over where Maroni, Checken etc failed. Joker in Arkham as a cameo, Batman approaching the cell. Bit of dialogue, in the cell next to Crane, Falcone, Dasmaltchian and Zsasz.

Something truly felt missing. There would be nothing more awsome than to see Batman at odds with the police, Gordon secretly liasing with Batman. There needed to be something to force him into retirement. It could even have been the depression of Rachel and Dent dying, making Batman reckless and damaging his body far too much, especially after the fall.

 

[Alex Logan]

Speak his name, if not for Shumacher's complete commercial and critical failure that was Batman & Robin, we may have wound up with a string of mediocre and progressively worse sequels instead of the total 180 that is The Dark Knight Trilogy.

 

[Khev]

I realize that I'm weeks behind on all TDKR discussion but did anyone else instantly think of "The Blues Brothers" when the 100 cop cars were chasing him on the Batpod through Chicago?

 

[jye4ever]

I realize that I'm weeks behind on all TDKR discussion but did anyone else instantly think of "The Blues Brothers" when the 100 cop cars were chasing him on the Batpod through Chicago?

Nope

 

[Khev]

Nope

I couldn't help but think that when he went down the alley and the army of police cars converged from both sides at the end of it.

On a side note that funky turn-wheels-sideways-90 degree-turn thing the Batpod sometimes does is about one of the coolest moves of any vehicle on film.

 

[jye4ever]

I couldn't help but think that when he went down the alley and the army of police cars converged from both sides at the end of it.

On a side note that funky turn-wheels-sideways-90 degree-turn thing the Batpod sometimes does is about one of the coolest moves of any vehicle on film.

Fo sure......I loved it.

ask void what he thinks of it

 

[intothevoid]

On a side note that funky turn-wheels-sideways-90 degree-turn thing the Batpod sometimes does is about one of the coolest moves of any vehicle on film.

Fo sure......I loved it.

ask void what he thinks of it

It's funny how that's one of the things I don't like

 

[Khev]

Bruce's final sacrifice was so poignant that I think it would be cool if Nolan pulled a "Blade Runner" and released a second version of the movie where he doesn't go off with his girl (like the original BR) but instead have the movie end with him dying. I get why he lived, and it was totally "Batman" for him to have a contingency but there's something about the hero who goes down with the ship to ensure victory. I'm looking at you Cap.

Has Nolan announced how the Joker was originally planned to play in TDKR? Was he supposed to more or less fulfill Bane's role or would they have gone in a totally direction entirely from the plot that we ended up with?

 

[plasmid303]

Bruce dying is a cop-out. Glad they didn't do that.