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If I like a movie, I don't pick it apart. I really don't. That's seriously cynical.
The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Goonsack Steve
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And I get the whole thing where if you watch a movie over and over, you notice flaws. It happens. I've watched TDK where I started seeing all these little dumb issues, and I picked that ****er to pieces in my own head. But I realized the film was overall, amazing. And those little flaws don't ruin the big picture.
It happens. I've even hated a film because it didn't hold up (Avatar, AvP-R, AvP, The Prequels). But still. Those movies didn't hold up because they have huge, gigantic flaws in filmmaking. Horrible terrible flaws that ruin them from the inside out.
And you can only see them when you remove your happy tinted (dunno if rose tinted works here...so..) sunglasses and look at them.
But that being said, you said you enjoyed TDKR. And you haven't had enough time to get into that "I HATE THIS MOVIE" phase. That stuff doesn't happen over night. Unless you force it.
I'm not ragging on you. I'm just trying to get you to relax. You brought up great points in the past. But now you're pushing it. You're attacking a fight scene because it reminded you of playing with toys....HUH? That's pushing it.
Just relax. Wait for the Blu Ray. Watch it a few more times. Wait months, perhaps years, then you will find your true opinion.
It happens. I've even hated a film because it didn't hold up (Avatar, AvP-R, AvP, The Prequels). But still. Those movies didn't hold up because they have huge, gigantic flaws in filmmaking. Horrible terrible flaws that ruin them from the inside out.
And you can only see them when you remove your happy tinted (dunno if rose tinted works here...so..) sunglasses and look at them.
But that being said, you said you enjoyed TDKR. And you haven't had enough time to get into that "I HATE THIS MOVIE" phase. That stuff doesn't happen over night. Unless you force it.
I'm not ragging on you. I'm just trying to get you to relax. You brought up great points in the past. But now you're pushing it. You're attacking a fight scene because it reminded you of playing with toys....HUH? That's pushing it.
Just relax. Wait for the Blu Ray. Watch it a few more times. Wait months, perhaps years, then you will find your true opinion.
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The toy thing wasn't even an issue? I never said it was awful. I noticed that the first time I saw it. It was like Nolan and Goyer got into a kid's mindset at that point for the confrontation. Which isn't a bad thing.
"No, I came back to stop you".
There was a lot of unintentional "lolz" in the movie. I think I said that the night I came back from it a month ago. So that didn't change (I also see threads about that on other forums). Also I never intentionally looked for flaws, they became more apparent on multiple viewings. That's all I said. There were things that ALWAYS sucked for me since opening night, like Bane. The voice, the character, everything. So, I dunno. You said you had those issues too?
The good things get better (Catwoman, John Blake, etc.) but, like I said, the things I had problems with, and there are many just became more blatant for me.
So what, just ignore those things? That's like more than half the film? I can't just be oblivious to those things to blindingly love it. Especially when it was toted as "the best thing ever" since it's conception and it's something I've been into for decades.
"No, I came back to stop you".
There was a lot of unintentional "lolz" in the movie. I think I said that the night I came back from it a month ago. So that didn't change (I also see threads about that on other forums). Also I never intentionally looked for flaws, they became more apparent on multiple viewings. That's all I said. There were things that ALWAYS sucked for me since opening night, like Bane. The voice, the character, everything. So, I dunno. You said you had those issues too?
The good things get better (Catwoman, John Blake, etc.) but, like I said, the things I had problems with, and there are many just became more blatant for me.
So what, just ignore those things? That's like more than half the film? I can't just be oblivious to those things to blindingly love it. Especially when it was toted as "the best thing ever" since it's conception and it's something I've been into for decades.
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You don't have to blindly love it.
But it seems like you come up with a new flaw every single day. And it's like...for ****s sakes...do you hate it, or like it.
You can enjoy a flawed movie. You can look down on the "BEST FILM EVAAARRR" people and laugh at them. I'd laugh at people who called Prometheus the best movie ever made.
But **** 'em. I've learned a lot about opinions and movies lately. If I judge my enjoyment on the basis of others...then my opinion isn't true to me.
But it seems like you come up with a new flaw every single day. And it's like...for ****s sakes...do you hate it, or like it.
You can enjoy a flawed movie. You can look down on the "BEST FILM EVAAARRR" people and laugh at them. I'd laugh at people who called Prometheus the best movie ever made.
But **** 'em. I've learned a lot about opinions and movies lately. If I judge my enjoyment on the basis of others...then my opinion isn't true to me.
Im sorry, but I go to watch batman movies to see batman, NOT Bruce Wayne,
yes CelticPredator, you already told me once they are the same,
but they are not the same, they are just not, even without the cape and the suit, there is a difference,
I know these movies are really good (except for the last one) and I get it, Nolan wanted to tell a story instead of just an action packet brainless blockbuster (transformers)
and I respect that, but I wish he gave us a better ending to the Batman trilogy, things were going so well,
I mean, I saw this posted here by DiFabio:
Batman Begins: Total running time of 140 minutes.
-(Docks) 0:52
-(Monorail station/saving Rachel from thugs) 0:33
-(Perched on skyscraper) 0:15
-(Gordon's porch scene) 0:38
-(Flask interrogation scene) 0:47
-(Narrows/Apartment investigation) 3:01
-(Arkham) 4:16
-(Tumbler/Batcave scene) 6:07
-(Narrows feargas/destruction scene) 6:19
-(Ending rooftop scene) 1:26
Total: 24:14/140= .172 or 17% of Bat screen time
But I would say that Bruce training to be in the League was part of becoming Batman, the reason we didn't need Batman as much is because the process of him becoming batman was extremely interesting and entertaining, I would even say the training and the flashbacks of Bruce were part of being Batman, the only thing that felt like that In Rises was when Bruce was working out to escape the Prison, the only true part in Rises where he did rise, but I wish they didn't drag it so much,
Bruce Training with Ras was more important than anything in TDKR
Bruce Training was part of becoming the Batman, while you could say the same about this movie it is Not the Same,
In Begins we see Bruce learning about the fear and to use it against others, about hiding in the shadows, the training was so important, that's why it worked,
that's why Ras plan was interesting, it was a surprise,
this one with Bane feels like a bad rehash, like a "been there Done that" kind of feel,
The Dark Knight will always be the best Nolan Bat Movie, because it has the perfect amount of Batman and the Joker, it was a nice balance with the most powerful enemy,
this movie did not have such balance, I really wish Nolan did not Pound me over the head with the fact that Bruce was wounded, the beginning did not need to be that long, the scene between Bruce and Alfred saying Goodbye was very powerful and enough,
I really wish they didn't show the Orphans, that was one of the things I hated the most, it was cheesy, it was unnecessary, Bruce being wounded and hurt did not need to be so long either, We Got It Nolan.... Bruce is in a Bad place, don't need to hit me in the head with it,
I wish the last fight was a lot longer, not between Batman and Bane, but the street fights, they did not feel epic, at least not as epic as they felt in the trailer,
I also wish that the fact that Bane took all the Equipment and the Tumblers from the building was build up and used better, too anticlimactic, a lot of stuff in the movie is anticlimactic, did not have the punch that the TDK scenes had,
I also Wish the scenes between Batman and Catwoman were longer, that they fought the guys a little bit longer, maybe batman didn't need to be in the movie as much, but I wish they made the scenes with Batman longer,
this movie should have been called: Bruce Wayne Rises: the last chapter of the Batman trilogy, it should not be called Dark Knight rises, Also the posters should have shown Bruce, Not batman, that was pure false advertising.
this makes me realize, this movie could have even been shorter, if they cut a lot of crap from the beginning like the Orphan scenes and Bruce being Wounded,
this is how I feel, this is my opinion, I know CelticP is going to tell me I am wrong, which, maybe I am,
but this movie had too little batman or Bruce wayne being a Detective
that is another thing that I loved about Dark Knight and Begins, the detective work Bruce did while not in costume,
even if he was not in the costume, he was solving problems, taking the bullet hole and matching it to the bullet, saving that guy at the end from being killed,
is not even about little plot holes or dumb issues, little things that made no sense, it was about making a better batman movie, making the batman scenes longer, while making a good Wounded Bruce story, you don't need the movie to have wounded Bruce so much, like I Said the scene between Bruce and Alfred brought that home for me, I understood how bad he felt, how wounded he was, I guess what I am saying is..
I wish Bruce cared about being alive at least, I wish he wasn't so numb, I hated that, I hated that Nolan did that, Bruce was shown to be so strong in both Begins and TDK, that is hard to take this zombie Bruce, I know he was hurt about rachel, but, WHY DO WE FALL BRUCE.....
we were hit in the head with that stupid line so much, over and over,
I just wish Nolan didn't do what he did, I wish the movie had a better representation of batman, or even Bruce as the detective,
this movie had none of that, Bruce was a living corpse the first half of the movie, and he was a living corpse in the prison, this movie didn't even have a Good Bruce Wayne, it had a half dead (on the inside) Bruce.....
yes CelticPredator, you already told me once they are the same,
but they are not the same, they are just not, even without the cape and the suit, there is a difference,
I know these movies are really good (except for the last one) and I get it, Nolan wanted to tell a story instead of just an action packet brainless blockbuster (transformers)
and I respect that, but I wish he gave us a better ending to the Batman trilogy, things were going so well,
I mean, I saw this posted here by DiFabio:
Batman Begins: Total running time of 140 minutes.
-(Docks) 0:52
-(Monorail station/saving Rachel from thugs) 0:33
-(Perched on skyscraper) 0:15
-(Gordon's porch scene) 0:38
-(Flask interrogation scene) 0:47
-(Narrows/Apartment investigation) 3:01
-(Arkham) 4:16
-(Tumbler/Batcave scene) 6:07
-(Narrows feargas/destruction scene) 6:19
-(Ending rooftop scene) 1:26
Total: 24:14/140= .172 or 17% of Bat screen time
But I would say that Bruce training to be in the League was part of becoming Batman, the reason we didn't need Batman as much is because the process of him becoming batman was extremely interesting and entertaining, I would even say the training and the flashbacks of Bruce were part of being Batman, the only thing that felt like that In Rises was when Bruce was working out to escape the Prison, the only true part in Rises where he did rise, but I wish they didn't drag it so much,
Bruce Training with Ras was more important than anything in TDKR
Bruce Training was part of becoming the Batman, while you could say the same about this movie it is Not the Same,
In Begins we see Bruce learning about the fear and to use it against others, about hiding in the shadows, the training was so important, that's why it worked,
that's why Ras plan was interesting, it was a surprise,
this one with Bane feels like a bad rehash, like a "been there Done that" kind of feel,
The Dark Knight will always be the best Nolan Bat Movie, because it has the perfect amount of Batman and the Joker, it was a nice balance with the most powerful enemy,
this movie did not have such balance, I really wish Nolan did not Pound me over the head with the fact that Bruce was wounded, the beginning did not need to be that long, the scene between Bruce and Alfred saying Goodbye was very powerful and enough,
I really wish they didn't show the Orphans, that was one of the things I hated the most, it was cheesy, it was unnecessary, Bruce being wounded and hurt did not need to be so long either, We Got It Nolan.... Bruce is in a Bad place, don't need to hit me in the head with it,
I wish the last fight was a lot longer, not between Batman and Bane, but the street fights, they did not feel epic, at least not as epic as they felt in the trailer,
I also wish that the fact that Bane took all the Equipment and the Tumblers from the building was build up and used better, too anticlimactic, a lot of stuff in the movie is anticlimactic, did not have the punch that the TDK scenes had,
I also Wish the scenes between Batman and Catwoman were longer, that they fought the guys a little bit longer, maybe batman didn't need to be in the movie as much, but I wish they made the scenes with Batman longer,
this movie should have been called: Bruce Wayne Rises: the last chapter of the Batman trilogy, it should not be called Dark Knight rises, Also the posters should have shown Bruce, Not batman, that was pure false advertising.
this makes me realize, this movie could have even been shorter, if they cut a lot of crap from the beginning like the Orphan scenes and Bruce being Wounded,
this is how I feel, this is my opinion, I know CelticP is going to tell me I am wrong, which, maybe I am,
but this movie had too little batman or Bruce wayne being a Detective
that is another thing that I loved about Dark Knight and Begins, the detective work Bruce did while not in costume,
even if he was not in the costume, he was solving problems, taking the bullet hole and matching it to the bullet, saving that guy at the end from being killed,
is not even about little plot holes or dumb issues, little things that made no sense, it was about making a better batman movie, making the batman scenes longer, while making a good Wounded Bruce story, you don't need the movie to have wounded Bruce so much, like I Said the scene between Bruce and Alfred brought that home for me, I understood how bad he felt, how wounded he was, I guess what I am saying is..
I wish Bruce cared about being alive at least, I wish he wasn't so numb, I hated that, I hated that Nolan did that, Bruce was shown to be so strong in both Begins and TDK, that is hard to take this zombie Bruce, I know he was hurt about rachel, but, WHY DO WE FALL BRUCE.....
we were hit in the head with that stupid line so much, over and over,
I just wish Nolan didn't do what he did, I wish the movie had a better representation of batman, or even Bruce as the detective,
this movie had none of that, Bruce was a living corpse the first half of the movie, and he was a living corpse in the prison, this movie didn't even have a Good Bruce Wayne, it had a half dead (on the inside) Bruce.....
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Yeah, but I didn't come up with anything new to fight over? That whole issue with Alfred was brought up on day 1. In fact it's constantly brought up in here. I was just chiming in on Void's response to Khev that it's open to interpretation not, "ALFRED THINKS BRUCE WANTS TO DIE". I thought Alfred was acting out of character and ***** from day one.
If you look back at the "action figure/toy/No I came back to stop you" crap a page back, I was actually defending that part. "Eh, it happens in Begins, who cares if it's corny". I think it was a response to Jokes and Bats.
So I don't know. I'll definitely defend parts of the film that I don't think are bad or stupid.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
DiFabio
If you could change only one thing, would it be the BB/LOS connection?
If you could change only one thing, would it be the BB/LOS connection?
intothevoid
Super Freak
Well I saw it for the 6th time tonight, it's still holding strong as my favourite Batman film, and in my top 5 favourite films of all time pretty easily
As I've said before, I think it's a flawed masterpiece. I'd say the same for BB (goofy aspects to the 3rd act) and TDK (Needed to do a little more to sell Harveys turn IMO)
What puts it over the other two for me is the emotional impact of the story (due largely to what's been built up from the prior films) and Dat ending
As far as Nolans films go both Memento and Inception are probably overall more accomplished pieces of cinema than any of his other movies, but the Batfilms are my favourites
As I've said before, I think it's a flawed masterpiece. I'd say the same for BB (goofy aspects to the 3rd act) and TDK (Needed to do a little more to sell Harveys turn IMO)
What puts it over the other two for me is the emotional impact of the story (due largely to what's been built up from the prior films) and Dat ending
As far as Nolans films go both Memento and Inception are probably overall more accomplished pieces of cinema than any of his other movies, but the Batfilms are my favourites
intothevoid
Super Freak
If I could change one thing id make it longer
yeah make the batman scenes longer, I think that is my biggest problem, I think that's the reason I was so frustrated and disappointed, if Batman in suit showed up a little more I think i would have loved it
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yeah make the batman scenes longer, I think that is my biggest problem, I think that's the reason I was so frustrated and disappointed, if Batman in suit showed up a little more I think i would have loved it
The Batman scenes in this topped most other's in the trilogy for me. That chase scene and the sewer battle are the best.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Nope
1. BB
2. TDK/TDKR tied
TDK Interrogation scene is still the high point of all 3 movies.
Best vehicle action scene still belongs to BB Tumbler chase
2nd most memorable Batman scene after TDK interrogation is Batman interrogation of Flass in the rain.
Worst villain goes to Talia.
Best fight scene goes to TDKR twice in a row.
Best soundtrack goes to TDKR.
Best looking of the 3 goes to TDKR.
1. BB
2. TDK/TDKR tied
TDK Interrogation scene is still the high point of all 3 movies.
Best vehicle action scene still belongs to BB Tumbler chase
2nd most memorable Batman scene after TDK interrogation is Batman interrogation of Flass in the rain.
Worst villain goes to Talia.
Best fight scene goes to TDKR twice in a row.
Best soundtrack goes to TDKR.
Best looking of the 3 goes to TDKR.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Yes, this.
intothevoid
Super Freak
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1. Interrogation
2. Sewer Battle
3. TDKR chase
4. BB chase
5. Flass interrogation
Soundtrack, TKDR. Cinematography, TDKR.
Still haven't decided completely, but as of right now.
TDKR
TDK
BB
2. Sewer Battle
3. TDKR chase
4. BB chase
5. Flass interrogation
Soundtrack, TKDR. Cinematography, TDKR.
Still haven't decided completely, but as of right now.
TDKR
TDK
BB
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great post
I agree, with Batman's farewell to Gordon being at the very top.
Honorable mentions to the semi chase in TDK as well as the Joker interrogation and Nurse Joker.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Adolfo,
If you are referring to DiFabio, nothing he did was insane, the guy simply cares about the character and knows his ****.
I have enjoyed reading every single post of his about the Nolan series.
If you are referring to DiFabio, nothing he did was insane, the guy simply cares about the character and knows his ****.
I have enjoyed reading every single post of his about the Nolan series.
intothevoid
Super Freak
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