The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Maglor]

Wish there was a way to put someone on ignore in just one thread.

 

[Maglor]

Honestly, if you don't like where they went with Bruce Wayne in TDKR, you don't like TDK trilogy Bruce Wayne period.

 

[DiFabio]

Wish there was a way to put someone on ignore in just one thread.

What's stopping you from doing it for all of them? DO IT.

Honestly, if you don't like where they went with Bruce Wayne in TDKR, you don't like TDK trilogy Bruce Wayne period.

Yeah, "The Dark Knight Trilogy" you're right. TDKR ruins the character, I don't like it.




Now the "Dark Knight Duology" with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight? I LUV ET!

 

[Voorhees27]

Personally there are definitely flaws in Rises but nowhere near as bad as some of you make it out to be.

I'm perfectly fine with how the trilogy ended and very much enjoyed Rises. It ranks in at 3 for me (Trilogy) Bane turning into a little *****, Miranda's death and some of the editing was pretty bad.

I just watched it on BD and still see it as a solid 8.5/10 though. Maybe an 8.

 

[Maglor]

What's stopping you from doing it for all of them? DO IT.

'Cos I like your posts when you're not trolling about TDKR.

Yeah, "The Dark Knight Trilogy" you're right. TDKR ruins the character, I don't like it.




Now the "Dark Knight Duology" with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight? I LUV ET!

And that's my point. There is only one Bruce Wayne in Nolan's movies. The Bruce Wayne in your "Duology" is the same Bruce Wayne in the Trilogy. It is not a different version of Bruce Wayne. If you don't like Bruce Wayne in TDKR, you don't like Bruce Wayne. His character develops one way. He matures one way. Begins, and TDK are steeping stones on that one path.

Begins asks: "Why do we fall". That is not fully answered until we see the conclusion of TDKR. Any other interpretation of how his character "should" have been developed is adolescent fan fiction.

 

[DiFabio]

And that's my point. There is only one Bruce Wayne in Nolan's movies. The Bruce Wayne in your "Duology" is the same Bruce Wayne in the Trilogy. It is not a different version of Bruce Wayne. If you don't like Bruce Wayne in TDKR, you don't like Bruce Wayne. His character develops one way. He matures one way. Begins, and TDK are steeping stones on that one path.

You know these are fictional films right, not real people? There are drafts, concepts, different versions of WRITTEN PAGES. It could go anywhere.

I don't like how he matures from TDK to TDKR and what becomes of him. Is that better? I don't like what they did with the character.

I like how he appears in Begins and TDK. Is that fair? Saying, "well then you don't like the character" is pretty silly. This isn't a real guy. TDKR has only been around for 6 months. SIX months total. Anything could have happened.

What if they decided to make Bruce Wayne a transvestite and he dressed up in a similar fashion as Rachel and Nolan and Co. explained and justified it as, "well, it's because she died". Obviously that would be extreme, but how many people do you think would be turned off and say that "TDKR didn't happen"?

It's entertainment, I can pick and choose what "exists".

Nolan's Batman, for me, ends with him going up the ramp, into the light like a western as "The Dark Knight".

Begins asks: "Why do we fall". That is not fully answered until we see the conclusion of TDKR. Any other interpretation of how his character "should" have been developed is adolescent fan fiction.

Yes it is, hahaha, yes it is.

"Why do we fall".

His father says that to him when he falls into the well. The relief or conclusion is, "so we learn to pick ourselves up".

That's not a throw away line in Begins. This is played up in the third act OF BATMAN BEGINS. When Bruce is at his wits end and frustrated feeling he's failed the city and his father's legacy as he watches his house burn.

What does Alfred say? "Why do we fall" . . . "so we can learn to pick ourselves up".



TDKR just utilizes it because they ran out of ideas, in my opinion. Full circle means, "we ran out of a story to tell, so we're going to rely on the previous films to tell our story". That's why you have Bane being a part of the League of Shadows. That's why you have a "whata twist" moment when Talia pulls a Ducard and the audience finds out, "OH SHE'S A BAD PERSON". That's why you have Alfred saying contrived things like, "WHEN YOU WERE GONE IN . . . BATMAN BEGINS I WENT TO ITALY AND HAD A DRINK, HOPING YOU FOUND A WOMAN AND WERE HAPPY". What's the villain's plot Maglor? League of Shadow villain steals Wayne Enterprises equipment and weaponizes it to turn it against the city. Same crap.

That's also why you have contrived, filler flashbacks throughout the film. You know what that is? That's the sign of a weak script.

From Begins to TDK, they didn't do these things. It was fresh and new, so much so that people felt they were watching two, very different films both thematically and visually. TDK didn't contradict Begins and they were covering new ground laid down by the theme of "escalation". There might have been a subtle reference to Begins like mentioning Falcone or having Scarecrow be caught by Batman, but they pressed forward.

TDKR takes it back and ****s with it all. Nolan might as well be M. Night Shyamalan. "You think you know Bruce Wayne, think again". "You think Batman died, think again." "Hey, guess what, you know that cop guy that we JUST introduced in this film? Yeah, when he was a kid sometime during Batman Begins, he saw Bruce Wayne and could tell by looking at his eyes that he was Batman. Guess WHAT! This guy was really Robin AND he's gonna be Batman". This is all within 5 minutes of each other, all these dramatic revelations. It tries to echo TDK's ending with Batman taking the blame. TDKR is essentially just Begins and TDK, flipped, inverted, and warped into a worse film that's bigger, louder and nosier than it's predecessors with two lame villains (the weakest of all the films) front and center.

It's all crap, in my opinion. The ambition is there, the cinematography and work is there, the script just sucks balls and the characters suck, especially the worthless secondaries like Foley.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Void cat, I have a download for the reborn doc. Not too sure how it works. If you want it, pm me.

 

[Adolfo]

LIsten up guys...It was all the Jokers fault...cant you see that?...The Joker Chaos created TDKR Bruce/Batman....The Joker really won in TDK...It was all part of the plan...end of transmission...great Trilogy by Nolan

 

[Master Wayne]

So I got up early and hit Best Buy at opening for the steelbook. I didn't want to chance missing it and getting stuck with the standard bluray and that awful orange TDK rehashed poster they slapped on the cover.

Go figure as soon as I opened it, I noticed the disc was horribly scratched right out of the sealed package! I doubt it would have affected playback, but it still bothered me enough to go exchange it. Thankfully there were a few steelbooks left this evening, and I'm home now with a perfect new copy.

 

[crows]

I saw this movie again today and I realize one of the real reasons I hate this movie,
Of course I loved Batman fighting Bane in the sewers but once Batman is defeated the movie becomes such a snoozefest. I am just talking honestly here. I couldn't give a rat's ass about Gordon or Blake or Miranda or that other idiot cop that has no business being in this movie, Once Bruce is gone taken into the prison I just don't really care about Gotham. The whole stupid city could have blown up and I couldn't care. Kinda reminds me how in Matrix Revolutions they wanted us to care for Zion an the safety of the free humans but I couldn't give a rat's ass about Zion anymore than I could care about Gotham.


In this aspect Rises and Revolutions feel very similar to me. You have the hero that is hurt and taken out of the story (Neo gets blinded and is going to the Machine city/Bruce is hurt and taken to the pit)
And then you have this city that is in danger and trying to survive. I feel the same way with both movies. I am supposed to care about these cities and their people while our hero is somewhere else and the plot is continuing without him, But I don't, I don't care about Gotham or Zion, I don't really care if they win or lose and I don't give a rat's ass if they die or not. I watched two movies dealing with the main character, all the focus was on him (Neo/Batman) Now all of the sudden both movies expect me to care more about the cities than the character I Was following for 2 movies?
I guess once Bruce is in the pit I feel like I am there with him, I don't really care or follow what's going on with Gotham, In fact I am more interested in Bruce in the pit than Gotham, Bruce getting better and trying to escape the pit is more interesting at this point to me than all this retarded drama with Bane and the people of Gotham.

Also Miranda has to be one of the cheesiest and most retarded characters I've ever seen...

 

[Adolfo]

You know these are fictional films right, not real people? There are drafts, concepts, different versions of WRITTEN PAGES. It could go anywhere.

I don't like how he matures from TDK to TDKR and what becomes of him. Is that better? I don't like what they did with the character.

I like how he appears in Begins and TDK. Is that fair? Saying, "well then you don't like the character" is pretty silly. This isn't a real guy. TDKR has only been around for 6 months. SIX months total. Anything could have happened.

What if they decided to make Bruce Wayne a transvestite and he dressed up in a similar fashion as Rachel and Nolan and Co. explained and justified it as, "well, it's because she died". Obviously that would be extreme, but how many people do you think would be turned off and say that "TDKR didn't happen"?

It's entertainment, I can pick and choose what "exists".

Nolan's Batman, for me, ends with him going up the ramp, into the light like a western as "The Dark Knight".



Yes it is, hahaha, yes it is.

"Why do we fall".

His father says that to him when he falls into the well. The relief or conclusion is, "so we learn to pick ourselves up".

That's not a throw away line in Begins. This is played up in the third act OF BATMAN BEGINS. When Bruce is at his wits end and frustrated feeling he's failed the city and his father's legacy as he watches his house burn.

What does Alfred say? "Why do we fall" . . . "so we can learn to pick ourselves up".



TDKR just utilizes it because they ran out of ideas, in my opinion. Full circle means, "we ran out of a story to tell, so we're going to rely on the previous films to tell our story". That's why you have Bane being a part of the League of Shadows. That's why you have a "whata twist" moment when Talia pulls a Ducard and the audience finds out, "OH SHE'S A BAD PERSON". That's why you have Alfred saying contrived things like, "WHEN YOU WERE GONE IN . . . BATMAN BEGINS I WENT TO ITALY AND HAD A DRINK, HOPING YOU FOUND A WOMAN AND WERE HAPPY". What's the villain's plot Maglor? League of Shadow villain steals Wayne Enterprises equipment and weaponizes it to turn it against the city. Same crap.

That's also why you have contrived, filler flashbacks throughout the film. You know what that is? That's the sign of a weak script.

From Begins to TDK, they didn't do these things. It was fresh and new, so much so that people felt they were watching two, very different films both thematically and visually. TDK didn't contradict Begins and they were covering new ground laid down by the theme of "escalation". There might have been a subtle reference to Begins like mentioning Falcone or having Scarecrow be caught by Batman, but they pressed forward.

TDKR takes it back and ****s with it all. Nolan might as well be M. Night Shyamalan. "You think you know Bruce Wayne, think again". "You think Batman died, think again." "Hey, guess what, you know that cop guy that we JUST introduced in this film? Yeah, when he was a kid sometime during Batman Begins, he saw Bruce Wayne and could tell by looking at his eyes that he was Batman. Guess WHAT! This guy was really Robin AND he's gonna be Batman". This is all within 5 minutes of each other, all these dramatic revelations. It tries to echo TDK's ending with Batman taking the blame. TDKR is essentially just Begins and TDK, flipped, inverted, and warped into a worse film that's bigger, louder and nosier than it's predecessors with two lame villains (the weakest of all the films) front and center.

It's all crap, in my opinion. The ambition is there, the cinematography and work is there, the script just sucks balls and the characters suck, especially the worthless secondaries like Foley.

Listen We all know you want Batman to be like the comics version a cold hard detective,etc...Nolan made him a human being whether you like it or not...over a billion dollars from folks hard earned money says otherwise that TDKR doesnt stink...I'm glad it wasnt just a Hard Boiled Batman and that emotions were put in place...am I saying it was perfect...no...but it was good and only a blind man or someone really really stubborn cant see how good this trilogy was...TDKR was the worst of the 3 but still very good in my book and millions of others agree...including 4 out of 5 dentists...LOL

 

[Adolfo]

If Batman in a film was fighting a cold hard simple killer or 87s Predator I say lets have that Comic book cold calculating detective guy...no problem...Nolans complicated villains were a big reason to have Batman/Bruce the way he was ...that's it...simple...and most human beings who watched the trilogy agreed and related to Nolan's work...

 

[DiFabio]

Listen We all know you want Batman to be like the comics version a cold hard detective,etc...Nolan made him a human being

Nope. He was a human being in Begins and TDK and I loved that. His origin isn't even "comic accurate". I don't care about comic accuracy for the most part.

Nolan did questionable things as far as comics go, killing off Two-Face, inclusion of Rachel, Joker paint, etc. But with the exception of Rachel, I love what he had done, prior to this film.

whether you like it or not...over a billion dollars from folks hard earned money says otherwise that it doesnt stink...

I put money towards the flick, I don't like it.

Does that mean that every single person that paid to see TDKR liked it? I didn't. Am I an anomaly?

What about other people that saw it and don't like it and think it stinks? They had to pay.

Don't you have to pay to see it (in most instances) to form an opinion? What about the people that said they didn't like it. Does their money not count in the overall total? How would one estimate or figure that out?



What about the reviewers and critics that saw it and panned it that didn't pay to see it since it was their job? Are they included in your guesstimate? What about people that don't post online? My friend's cousin's sister's brother's friend of a friend's second cousin twice removed hated it but they forgot about it and never talked about it again. Where do they fit in? What's the majority?

Nolans complicated villains were a big reason to have Batman/Bruce the way he was ...that's it...simple...and most human beings who watched the trilogy agreed and related to Nolan's work...

Bane and Talia were complicated? LOL

Scarecrow was complex? LOL

 

[batfan08]

...and around and around we go...

People have differing opinions. Both sides should just accept that fact instead of turning this thread into "Groundhog Day" for the Nth time in a row.

 

[Adolfo]

Nope. He was a human being in Begins and TDK and I loved that. His origin isn't even "comic accurate". I don't care about comic accuracy for the most part.

Nolan did questionable things as far as comics go, killing off Two-Face, inclusion of Rachel, Joker paint, etc. But with the exception of Rachel, I love what he had done, prior to this film.



I put money towards the flick, I don't like it.

Does that mean that every single person that paid to see TDKR liked it? I didn't. Am I an anomaly?

What about other people that saw it and don't like it and think it stinks? They had to pay.

Don't you have to pay to see it (in most instances) to form an opinion? What about the people that said they didn't like it. Does their money not count in the overall total? How would one estimate or figure that out?



What about the reviewers and critics that saw it and panned it that didn't pay to see it since it was their job? Are they included in your guesstimate? What about people that don't post online? My friend's cousin's sister's brother's friend of a friend's second cousin twice removed hated it but they forgot about it and never talked about it again. Where do they fit in? What's the majority?




Bane and Talia were complicated? LOL

Scarecrow was complex? LOL

If the movie was sheet it would not have made a billion...The masses would have hated it ...No freakin way!...If you cant see that most people liked this film then I cannot help you...

 

[Adolfo]

Scarecrow was the least complicated...Bane was not?...Joker was not? Gul...?....Complicated...not just simple killers...To take over a city you better be complicated pal

 

[jye4ever]

...and around and around we go...

People have differing opinions. Both sides should just accept that fact instead of turning this thread into "Groundhog Day" for the Nth time in a row.

DiFabio can repeat his feelings 100 more times, it still makes sense to me wut he's saying, and it's a pleasure to read.

He was just providing Maglor a counter argument, is dis a crime now.

If the movie was sheet it would not have made a billion...The masses would have hated it ...No freakin way!...If you cant see that most people liked this film then I cannot help you...

Adolfo, Avatar made 17 trillion dollars

 

[Adolfo]

Nolan made the film his way...nobody is disputing the fact he changes some things...but they were done well...that's it...and it was a success and I'm proud to own these films too like tens of millions others and proud to relate to the characters he put up on screen

 

[Adolfo]

DiFabio can repeat 100 more times, it still makes sense to me wut he's saying, and it's a pleasure to read.




Adolfo, Avatar made 17 trillion dollars

Did Avatar truly truly suck...no...Was it great entertainment...yes...was it the greatest film ever made...no

 

[DiFabio]

There are people that liked it and people that didn't. Some that loved it, some that hated it. Some might have thought it was meh, others might have moved on. Some people saw it multiple times, others did not.

To say, "well, it made this much money, so, most people like it and you're in the minority" (I guess you're implying that my opinion is in the minority therefore it's unimportant and wrong?) is shortsighted at best.





Now I haven't been in this thread for a while. People got tired of me posting. So I stopped. No harm, no foul. I care not. But for awhile now I've been goaded either by those that wanted me to return to this thread and have some fun (which I have no problem with) or goaded in other threads as a "whiner" or "baby" when I'm not even contributing to the discussion or TDKR. A few others have been provoked as well, not just about TDKR either.


Well, after seeing these things and seeing countless double posts of "DIS IZ GREAT" or "IF YOU DON'T THINK THIS WAY, YOU'RE WRONG" I realize, we all just have different opinions on these stupid movies and are free to express them.

So **** it. Love it or hate it, you're free to express why on this message board. Imma chime in and I'll continue to post at my leisure. Whatever. You love it, feel free to post that or try and rebut my opinion. Don't be like "oh, him again, blah, blah, blah" then hang that carrot in front of my face to come back and do the same ****. It's petty and we're all adults here.


This is just a message board, a place to express your feelings and have fun about common interests you have with other. So, with that said, TDKR is ****. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are much, much, MUCH better.