The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[intothevoid]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Well there was a theory back in the pre TDK release days that they were gonna end TDK with the scene where we see Two Face in the bar, and the 3rd was gonna be about Two Face, with kind of like a Long Halloween story line, where you never really know if the killer is Two Face or not. THat would have been epic.

 

[Darth Madden]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

As much as I would love to see two-face in the next one I agree with something I saw somebody say a while ago. If Nolan wants to keep the Batman universe realistic then there is probably no way Harvy could survive very long with those injuries.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

^ Agreed. Which is why i've made peace with the Two Face is dead reality.

 

[bhags413]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I haven't read through this so this may have already been said - I think they are going to bring back Two-Face only for the fact that they can't bring back to Joker due to Ledgers passing. Harvey's character would basically be an underground crime boss but Batman would have to struggle with keeping him a secret while also making sure he doesn't screw up Gotham. The Rise of Batman would come towards the end , I guess, as everyone finds out about Harvey and Batman is back to his protector of Gotham role. I, for one, hope they don't introduce Catwoman, but the "should do fine against cats" line just screams an appearance. Nolan has done a fantastic job with the other 2, so I trust the 3rd will be no different -

 

[Deckard]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Whats too bad is you don't seem to know much about Black Mask. He's plenty crazy and its a far cry from the mafia, its more a secret society, almost a cult. The storyline could easily be drasticly differant and its Chris Nolan so given his current track record I don't think he's just going to remake The Dark Knight. He didn't want to do this movie to begin with, I'm sure it wasn't a mediocre Last Crusade esque script that brought him onboard.

Mask is a mirror of Wayne, a kid given every oppurtunity to just be a trust fund baby but decided they wanted more. They both don masks to hide theyre public personas. And keep in mind the Police are likely to play a large part as the antagonists in this movie and I'd be surprised if Scarecrow didn't have another quick cameo as well.

If it is indeed Black Mask, that's too bad. Certainly not the villain to follow up with after the likes of the Joker. I mean, I don't expect and really never expect the "next one" to even touch TDK's Joker but Black Mask? Come on.

I thought it was always about escalation.

1.) Mob/Organized crime
2.) Enter Batman
3.) Mob begins to crumble, one block at a time
4.) City inspired by Batman
5.) Things change, forever. Mob begins to fall apart

6.) Enter the Joker
7.) Rise of the freaks
8.) Crime is associated with mostly crazed, psychotic villains

With Black Mask you go back to the fallen Mob empire that the Joker COMPLETELY obliterated which makes the Joker's efforts and plans and mostly the whole plot of TDK seemingly pointless.

Falcone, Maroni, Gambol, from the Dark Knight, the mob bosses like Grissom and Rotelli from the first Batman film have all established the organized crime element in Batman on film, I think it's time to move on.

Another suit in a mask that has a touch of the crazies who just happens to be a mob boss is just too repetitive for me. That and audiences will probably think of Red Skull from Captain America after they see the film. Their appearances are way too similar.

 

[bhags413]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Ive also wondered if there are any Joker scenes that were cut that would make sense in the third film - they shouldnt bring in someone new, but a lost scene could be cool ...??? lol

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Funny how things worked out.

Everyone thought for sure that Two-Face would be prominent in this film prior to the release of The Dark Knight, I know I did.

The character of the Joker ends up living with a hint of him being included in a sequel ("Destined to do this forever"/Ledger's contract) yet the actor that portrays him dies.

The character of Two-Face is introduced in one film. People expect him to survive for the sequels, he dies.

I wonder how the film would have turned out had they changed things around to where Batman would accidentally break his one rule during the interrogation and pummel Joker to death (with Joker laughing all the way of course). It might have made the film more dramatic. Joker still wins, has an epic death, Two-Face is born and becomes the new villain, Batman loses in a sense but continues on.

Personally, I wouldn't change a thing. But I know where people are coming from. I think Two-Face was a missed opportunity. I mean his arc is fine in terms of TDK as a stand alone film but they really missed out on duality, the fate and chance of the coin etc.

Too bad.

 

[Deckard]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I wonder how the film would have turned out had they changed things around to where Batman would accidentally break his one rule during the interrogation and pummel Joker to death (with Joker laughing all the way of course). It might have made the film more dramatic. Joker still wins, has an epic death, Two-Face is born and becomes the new villain, Batman loses in a sense but continues on.

That would have been the worst possible thing that could have happened. Batman could never redeem himself and the character would be ruined. Murder a suspect already under arrest in police custody in the station.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Whats too bad is you don't seem to know much about Black Mask.

And I don't want to know.

I've read up on him. Kid kills his parents, hates Bruce Wayne, cooperation competition, he fell on his head, part of "the society" that has cronies that wears masks (*cough* JOKER *cough*).

I'm fine with admitting that I'm prejudiced against a character I know little about. He's not a Joker, he's not a Catwoman, he's not a Penguin, he's not a Riddler, he's not a Two-Face, he's not a Clayface, etc.

Yeah, most of those have been done to death in other stories/media but why fix what ain't broken?

Different interpretations are fantastic. Look at TDK Joker. Joker was done before with Nicholson but this new version gave a fresh new spin on the character.

Nolan could have done wonders for Riddler and Penguin. Especially with the Riddler and all the mind games (Nolan LOVES those), puzzles, and clever story telling that would be associated with him.

____, Black Mask. He seems like a pretentious choice by comic fans so that the character is finally shown to the mainstream general audiences. I'm in between both of those worlds and I don't want to see him.

I bet he's the one though, him and Catwoman. Maybe Catwoman will blow his brains out, I could stand behind that.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

That would have been the worst possible thing that could have happened. Batman could never redeem himself and the character would be ruined. Murder a suspect already under arrest in police custody in the station.

Yupp - Cannot break the rule

 

[Deckard]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Then your opinion is worthless. You Wiki'd him and drew a conclusion, neat.

And I don't want to know.

I've read up on him. Kid kills his parents, hates Bruce Wayne, cooperation competition, he fell on his head, part of "the society" that has cronies that wears masks (*cough* JOKER *cough*).

 

[agen_kolar]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

That would have been the worst possible thing that could have happened. Batman could never redeem himself and the character would be ruined.

I disagree. I felt like that's how the movie should've ended myself, especially since Ledger wouldn't be coming back. They could've easily had the Joker fall to his death when Batman threw him off of the building, laughing as he went, just with Batman never stopping his fall. It could be a major plot point, how Batman broke his one rule - and how can he go about redeeming himself, or ensuring he never breaks his rule again.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Then your opinion is worthless. You Wiki'd him and drew a conclusion, neat.

So what?

I disagree. I felt like that's how the movie should've ended myself, especially since Ledger wouldn't be coming back. They could've easily had the Joker fall to his death when Batman threw him off of the building, laughing as he went, just with Batman never stopping his fall. It could be a major plot point, how Batman broke his one rule - and how can he go about redeeming himself, or ensuring he never breaks his rule again.

I'm not saying that's what SHOULD have happened but it would make for great film drama and story telling. Some people hate when these movies don't adhere strictly to the comics though.

I love how it is (we wouldn't have had the self righteous speech and one rule Batman had it went differently), but I'm open to different stories/interpretations. I think it would have been equally amazing had the Joker died by Batman directly or indirectly. AS long as it made sense and had an emotional punch to the character and audience.

 

[Biojex]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I find you don't really get a good sense of a character if you just Wiki them. Reading the comics and seeing how they interact therein is a much more inclusive and informative thing to do.

Give him a chance Difabio.

 

[Deckard]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I disagree. I felt like that's how the movie should've ended myself, especially since Ledger wouldn't be coming back. They could've easily had the Joker fall to his death when Batman threw him off of the building, laughing as he went, just with Batman never stopping his fall. It could be a major plot point, how Batman broke his one rule - and how can he go about redeeming himself, or ensuring he never breaks his rule again.

If only Chris had known that Heath was going to die he could have killed him in the movie to neatly tie it up for people who don't like loose ends.

I don't think you guys get Batman. He is redeeming himself. If he breaks the rule he crosses the line and loses forever. He becomes what he pledges to stop and there is no way back short of Clark spinning the earth around for him.

 

[automaton]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Nolan isn't selling comic books... he is telling the story of the lunacy of man. i would bet that he isn't depending on the "new villain" to establish the plot, but rather just continue the exploration into man's psyches... which character the villain is may be inconsequential.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I could never support joker dying - they're destined to do it forever

 

[Deckard]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I could never support joker dying - they're destined to do it forever

"I think you and i are destined to do this forever" its right there in the movie.

We get one more adventure with Batman, that doesn't mean that after that one he can't live on in our imagination any way he wants. Joker is still alive and out there and I think just because we won't be shown it doesn't mean he won't give Batman a hard time in the future. Just knowing he's still there is far more for me then if he were dead. We know Arkham won't hold him forever.

 

[agen_kolar]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

If only Chris had known that Heath was going to die he could have killed him in the movie to neatly tie it up for people who don't like loose ends.

I don't think you guys get Batman. He is redeeming himself. If he breaks the rule he crosses the line and loses forever. He becomes what he pledges to stop and there is no way back short of Clark spinning the earth around for him.

No, but Nolan still could've killed the Joker off when Batman threw him off of the building. With a little editing and maybe some CG, we never would've known that wasn't the intention in the first place.

I understand Batman just fine, but I also don't necessarily think he'd lose if he broke his one rule. It would be devastating to him, for sure, but would make for an awesome plot point. And I, for one, don't care about breaking from comic story lines. I never liked comics much in the first place. But that's just me.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

He is redeeming himself. If he breaks the rule he crosses the line and loses forever.

What if he accidentally went too far? Stories are immortal. Batman will be around much longer than we will be. I don't see anything wrong if one day we saw him explode by accident on the big screen.

Think about it? What would the character do? Get lost even more, potentially kill himself (that would be lame)? Somehow find justification in it? Who knows.

I like how it pans out in the Dark Knight. He beats the Joker by not killing him and proves how good he is. Joker gives him the "destined" and "self righteous" bits and it's all fantastic. But I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing what ifs. Hell I don't think there would be anything wrong if that happened if it was done in a tasteful way. What if Nolan did set it up that way and made it even more tragic?

I'm in the camp that would want to see Joker and Batman duke it out mentally, physically and emotionally forever (that and I would never want the Joker to die ), but everyone has breaking points. To see that flesh out on screen would be amazing and I'd certainly be open to it.