Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if Nolan thinks Batman would only be around to fight the mob and organized crime... then he doesn't understand Batman.
I really hope this is not the case.
I really hope this is not the case.
The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***
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Also, at the end of TDK Gordon says Batman "can take it." Well, no he can't if he's just up and quits like a wuss.
Batman fights crime. Whether it's the organized mob or psychotic masterminds like Joker or just some 2-bit thug like Joe Chill... it doesn't matter. If Nolan is intending to say otherwise, then I'm sorry... this whole 3 film thing has been for naught.
This is all speculative, of course and based on whether or not this seemingly arbitrary 8 year lapse happened before all the events of TDKR.
Batman fights crime. Whether it's the organized mob or psychotic masterminds like Joker or just some 2-bit thug like Joe Chill... it doesn't matter. If Nolan is intending to say otherwise, then I'm sorry... this whole 3 film thing has been for naught.
This is all speculative, of course and based on whether or not this seemingly arbitrary 8 year lapse happened before all the events of TDKR.
The Mike
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Nolan already doesn't understand the character based on the simple fact he fails to see the total facets of said character. Creating him in a vacuum is the first sign of that.
It's quite obvious that much like Batman and Batman Returns was "Burton's Batman" and taken with a grain of salt about the changes, no matter how fanboy some people are about it, this is "Nolan's Batman" and while good absolutely is not any definitive film representation of the character because it handicaps the character. No different that the directors before felt that Batman had to punch it out with superpowered rogues or supernatural rogues and ignore the everyday fight with crime in their films.
Nolan already doesn't understand the character based on the simple fact he fails to see the total facets of said character. Creating him in a vacuum is the first sign of that.
It's quite obvious that much like Batman and Batman Returns was "Burton's Batman" and taken with a grain of salt about the changes, no matter how fanboy some people are about it, this is "Nolan's Batman" and while good absolutely is not any definitive film representation of the character because it handicaps the character. No different that the directors before felt that Batman had to punch it out with superpowered rogues or supernatural rogues and ignore the everyday fight with crime in their films.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises
It's not even really about accuracy to the comics or what is definitive though. It's about being accurate to itself. What's been shown for TDKR so far just doesn't seem like the reality of the choices that were made at the end of TDK. This already seems like some alternate reality.
Surely the repercussions of taking the blame and lying would be felt before an entire 8 year time span? They need Bane as the catalyst for everyone to see the error of Batman and Gordon's ways? Assuming of course he's the one that reveals the truth based on that shot of him in front of city hall with the photo of Dent. The character wasn't even in TDK.
I know Joker wasn't an option but there is a host of others that were involved in the climax who aren't listed as returning or recurring characters. The Mayor is really the only one who is back and he wasn't in the know about Dent at all. I don't know. When I came out of TDK I was thinking we'd see a more obsessed, compulsive Batman who's out there every night. Or a public that doesn't trust Gordon because they figure out that he's tipping off Batman who is always evading the authorities. Not "frozen in time", retirement, a Gotham in peace time and robin hood "99% Wall Street" movements.
It's still too early but we've gotten A LOT of information of where the story is headed and it has little to nothing to do with how the characters got to where they are 8 years later other than, well, that's just where they are. It really seems like everything is greeaaaaat until Bane shows up and that Batman isn't even a problem or there.
It's not even really about accuracy to the comics or what is definitive though. It's about being accurate to itself. What's been shown for TDKR so far just doesn't seem like the reality of the choices that were made at the end of TDK. This already seems like some alternate reality.
Surely the repercussions of taking the blame and lying would be felt before an entire 8 year time span? They need Bane as the catalyst for everyone to see the error of Batman and Gordon's ways? Assuming of course he's the one that reveals the truth based on that shot of him in front of city hall with the photo of Dent. The character wasn't even in TDK.
I know Joker wasn't an option but there is a host of others that were involved in the climax who aren't listed as returning or recurring characters. The Mayor is really the only one who is back and he wasn't in the know about Dent at all. I don't know. When I came out of TDK I was thinking we'd see a more obsessed, compulsive Batman who's out there every night. Or a public that doesn't trust Gordon because they figure out that he's tipping off Batman who is always evading the authorities. Not "frozen in time", retirement, a Gotham in peace time and robin hood "99% Wall Street" movements.
It's still too early but we've gotten A LOT of information of where the story is headed and it has little to nothing to do with how the characters got to where they are 8 years later other than, well, that's just where they are. It really seems like everything is greeaaaaat until Bane shows up and that Batman isn't even a problem or there.
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jye4ever
Broke and happy
Devil_666
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Why are you guys being mean to intothevoid!?
Why are you guys being mean to intothevoid!?
Sachiel
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Yeah the "8 years later" really tipped people on their heads.
Some more stuff:
He has a newly equipped Batcave, a new vehicle "The Bat", new gadgets. Stuff that would surely be made somewhere within those eight years. No new suit, but would he really need one?
Yeah the "8 years later" really tipped people on their heads.
Some more stuff:
Maybe he did retire sometime before TDKR, but not right after TDK and continued being Batman for a while until Gotham got "cleaner"? Or maybe he's been going out now and then for eight years stalking around like some boogeyman?
He has a newly equipped Batcave, a new vehicle "The Bat", new gadgets. Stuff that would surely be made somewhere within those eight years. No new suit, but would he really need one?
intothevoid
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
This.
What I really take out of the 8 years concept is the Nolans thought about what's the most interesting and compelling way they can finish their story - and what they have come up with has to do with exploring the aftermath of the end of The Dark Knight, while also taking on board all the drivers that have made Bruce what he is, as explored in Begins, and really try to answer - what if Batman/Gordon's plan worked, what if peace actually did happen in Gotham, based on a lie.
Maybe it papered over the cracks for a few years, but underneath the surface, there is much wrong. This is hinted at very clearly in the trailer by Selina's dialogue 'you and your friends better batten down the hatches... wonder how you could live so large, and leave so little for the rest of us'
Clearly there is a wealthy/poor divide that's been brewing in the city, eventhough the crime rate itself may be down. Not everything has to be about mob bosses and police corruption - this is taking a step further from that, about the essence of society in Gotham and where Bruce/Batman fits into it, and how he was naive to think that by taking the fall for Dent, things would be ok.
They won't be, the joker DID win, it just takes 8 odd years for that papered over solution of Batman/Gordon to come apart - Batman needs to be something more, needs to confront the truth, about Harvey, about Rachel's death, about himself, and by the end, he will be the hero gotham deserves and the one it needs.
YES you can argue what about the sixth cop or what about Maroni (probably dead) or what about etc etc plotholes ad nauseum - but the fact is, we're jumping 8 yrs, some of those things might be explained, most of them probably won't. It's only a series of 3 films which are 2-2.5 hrs long each. Not every little detail can be explained without sacrificing time from something else that is more important.
That's my view anyway - noone is forced to be happy about the approach Nolan's taking here. This is HIS interpretation of Batman afterall, it's not exactly the comic book version or any other version. That's part of the beauty of the character, its open to a ton of interpretations and i'm glad we're getting a full 3 films worth of Nolan's.
This.
What I really take out of the 8 years concept is the Nolans thought about what's the most interesting and compelling way they can finish their story - and what they have come up with has to do with exploring the aftermath of the end of The Dark Knight, while also taking on board all the drivers that have made Bruce what he is, as explored in Begins, and really try to answer - what if Batman/Gordon's plan worked, what if peace actually did happen in Gotham, based on a lie.
Maybe it papered over the cracks for a few years, but underneath the surface, there is much wrong. This is hinted at very clearly in the trailer by Selina's dialogue 'you and your friends better batten down the hatches... wonder how you could live so large, and leave so little for the rest of us'
Clearly there is a wealthy/poor divide that's been brewing in the city, eventhough the crime rate itself may be down. Not everything has to be about mob bosses and police corruption - this is taking a step further from that, about the essence of society in Gotham and where Bruce/Batman fits into it, and how he was naive to think that by taking the fall for Dent, things would be ok.
They won't be, the joker DID win, it just takes 8 odd years for that papered over solution of Batman/Gordon to come apart - Batman needs to be something more, needs to confront the truth, about Harvey, about Rachel's death, about himself, and by the end, he will be the hero gotham deserves and the one it needs.
YES you can argue what about the sixth cop or what about Maroni (probably dead) or what about etc etc plotholes ad nauseum - but the fact is, we're jumping 8 yrs, some of those things might be explained, most of them probably won't. It's only a series of 3 films which are 2-2.5 hrs long each. Not every little detail can be explained without sacrificing time from something else that is more important.
That's my view anyway - noone is forced to be happy about the approach Nolan's taking here. This is HIS interpretation of Batman afterall, it's not exactly the comic book version or any other version. That's part of the beauty of the character, its open to a ton of interpretations and i'm glad we're getting a full 3 films worth of Nolan's.
lambo944
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Because he's the hero gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
Because he's the hero gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
cerealkeller
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
I really hope Nolan addresses questions like the 5th killed by Dent, Ramirez and what about Reese? He told the public he knew who Batman was. After Batman is being blamed for being a killer, don't you think the police would be questioning him? He does not seem like the type who wouldn't fold almost immediately!
I really don't have a huge problem with the 8 year gap. It's not where I thought it would go, but part of being a fanboy is letting go of what YOU wanted to have happen and let Nolan who has proven himself time and time again finish his story. We haven't seen the movie yet so let's not start _____ing about plot holes until we see it.
My only real beef with the 8 year gap and if Gotham has been in peace for 8 years is the theme of escalation I love so much about Batman's story. I was really hoping The Joker appearing after batman, who in turn leads to Two-Face would signal the "Rise of the Freaks" who change the face of crime in Gotham. If peace was achieved and Batman only comes back to take Gotham back from bane, there goes that very significant aspect of the story hinted at by the end of Begins. Having this film at the end of his career misses that whole plot. That is a concern, but I won't really pass judgement until July.
I really hope Nolan addresses questions like the 5th killed by Dent, Ramirez and what about Reese? He told the public he knew who Batman was. After Batman is being blamed for being a killer, don't you think the police would be questioning him? He does not seem like the type who wouldn't fold almost immediately!
I really don't have a huge problem with the 8 year gap. It's not where I thought it would go, but part of being a fanboy is letting go of what YOU wanted to have happen and let Nolan who has proven himself time and time again finish his story. We haven't seen the movie yet so let's not start _____ing about plot holes until we see it.
My only real beef with the 8 year gap and if Gotham has been in peace for 8 years is the theme of escalation I love so much about Batman's story. I was really hoping The Joker appearing after batman, who in turn leads to Two-Face would signal the "Rise of the Freaks" who change the face of crime in Gotham. If peace was achieved and Batman only comes back to take Gotham back from bane, there goes that very significant aspect of the story hinted at by the end of Begins. Having this film at the end of his career misses that whole plot. That is a concern, but I won't really pass judgement until July.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Nope, not good enough.
This.
What I really take out of the 8 years concept is the Nolans thought about what's the most interesting and compelling way they can finish their story - and what they have come up with has to do with exploring the aftermath of the end of The Dark Knight, while also taking on board all the drivers that have made Bruce what he is, as explored in Begins, and really try to answer - what if Batman/Gordon's plan worked, what if peace actually did happen in Gotham, based on a lie.
Maybe it papered over the cracks for a few years, but underneath the surface, there is much wrong. This is hinted at very clearly in the trailer by Selina's dialogue 'you and your friends better batten down the hatches... wonder how you could live so large, and leave so little for the rest of us'
Clearly there is a wealthy/poor divide that's been brewing in the city, eventhough the crime rate itself may be down. Not everything has to be about mob bosses and police corruption - this is taking a step further from that, about the essence of society in Gotham and where Bruce/Batman fits into it, and how he was naive to think that by taking the fall for Dent, things would be ok.
They won't be, the joker DID win, it just takes 8 odd years for that papered over solution of Batman/Gordon to come apart - Batman needs to be something more, needs to confront the truth, about Harvey, about Rachel's death, about himself, and by the end, he will be the hero gotham deserves and the one it needs.
YES you can argue what about the sixth cop or what about Maroni (probably dead) or what about etc etc plotholes ad nauseum - but the fact is, we're jumping 8 yrs, some of those things might be explained, most of them probably won't. It's only a series of 3 films which are 2-2.5 hrs long each. Not every little detail can be explained without sacrificing time from something else that is more important.
That's my view anyway - noone is forced to be happy about the approach Nolan's taking here. This is HIS interpretation of Batman afterall, it's not exactly the comic book version or any other version. That's part of the beauty of the character, its open to a ton of interpretations and i'm glad we're getting a full 3 films worth of Nolan's.
Nope, not good enough.
intothevoid
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Not calling it a trilogy wrapped in a neat bow just yet, it's pretty hilarious if you take a step back that we're even having such a detailed discussion based on 1 trailer and what we think we know from set pics and interviews
Yeah, you may hate the film, and believe it or not, even I may just think its not the best thing in the world once I've seen it, but I won't know until I do
Not calling it a trilogy wrapped in a neat bow just yet, it's pretty hilarious if you take a step back that we're even having such a detailed discussion based on 1 trailer and what we think we know from set pics and interviews
Yeah, you may hate the film, and believe it or not, even I may just think its not the best thing in the world once I've seen it, but I won't know until I do
intothevoid
Super Freak
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Jumping on the Fabio bandwagon are we - no more lolcatz for you buddy
Nope, not good enough.
Jumping on the Fabio bandwagon are we - no more lolcatz for you buddy
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
I believe your rebuttal was very well presented and makes absolute sense and being that we're still half a year away from the movie it is the explanation I am most ready to stand behind with my full undivided attention and support.
Jumping on the Fabio bandwagon are we - no more lolcatz for you buddy
I believe your rebuttal was very well presented and makes absolute sense and being that we're still half a year away from the movie it is the explanation I am most ready to stand behind with my full undivided attention and support.
The Mike
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises
The headache that is being received about people trying to explain the logic behind the 8 year gap is going to be hilarious when Bruce walked back through Gotham Airport with a slight tan and a shirt that says "Sandals".
The headache that is being received about people trying to explain the logic behind the 8 year gap is going to be hilarious when Bruce walked back through Gotham Airport with a slight tan and a shirt that says "Sandals".
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Wife and I watched BB/TDK this week, she loved them, watched them straight thru. Not the first time she saw them but it's been awhile for her and she said they still hold up very well, she's now excited for TDKR.
Good for her.
Then I put on 89 the following night and she said it's very slow and boring, fell asleep twice already while watching it, said the costume is too bulky and silly!
Wife and I watched BB/TDK this week, she loved them, watched them straight thru. Not the first time she saw them but it's been awhile for her and she said they still hold up very well, she's now excited for TDKR.
Good for her.
Then I put on 89 the following night and she said it's very slow and boring, fell asleep twice already while watching it, said the costume is too bulky and silly!
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
I agree with you vodoun, I am so happy to not be a part of these shenanigans.
I agree with you vodoun, I am so happy to not be a part of these shenanigans.
Re: The Dark Knight Rises
Yes..wife and I can't wait for July 20th.. I will buy the tickets ahead of hand so that we get a good seat.
Wife and I watched BB/TDK this week, she loved them, watched them straight thru. Not the first time she saw them but it's been awhile for her and she said they still hold up very well, she's now excited for TDKR.
Good for her.
Then I put on 89 the following night and she said it's very slow and boring, fell asleep twice already while watching it, said the costume is too bulky and silly!
Yes..wife and I can't wait for July 20th.. I will buy the tickets ahead of hand so that we get a good seat.
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