The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Hmm, I don't know. People seem to be missing the fact that these are just films. When I make my defenses it's usually for the film itself be it TDK or in the case before, '89 Batman. Not really keen on defending fictional character's beliefs, thoughts and goals.

By that logic Bruce Wayne killed most of the members of the League of Shadows, fake Ras and the prisoner (that would be ironic) he refused to execute from the explosions and fires he intentionally caused.

I can't agree with that.

yeah it's hard for an action film to have a hero that do not kill. wont be fun at all. so i think the filmmakers want us to believe that if we dont see the bad guys dead at the hand of batman, then they're not dead at all. for all you know none of those ninjas batman beat up are dead. fake ra's died by accident, ditto with dent. too convenient, i know.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Bats was down after being shot.

All he could do was make a sudden leap/lunge at Two Face to try and save Gordon's boy.

If he had taken the time to take out a Batarang Two Face would have seen and just shot him again.


Accidental. Batman does not kill. devilof summed it up better.

If he wanted to he could haven taken a double triple Batarang out of his belt and solve the whole situation in a heartbeat even with his left hand on the back. Man he is BATMAN a highly professional trained human fighting machine! I mean he saved Robin AND Batgirl from Riddler and 2-Face and you do really think he did not kill Dent on purpose? :gah:

Anyway. Is there any new information about B3? Did they already hire, ODonnell, DiCaprio, Berry or Jolie?:clap
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

(sigh)

How long has Batman been Batman by TDK? Long enough to be a perfect crime fighting, life-saving machine? Nope.

Further, if you're defending yourself from someone who is trying to kill you, and they die, did you kill them?

To quote a man who doesn't need it explained to him, "You murdered yourself son. I just carried the bullet a while."
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

ok, i think i've cracked it. if i maybe so bold to guess nolan's thinking process... i'll try to decode the story for the next film. i mentioned 'despair', i mentioned 'noir', i mentioned 'catwoman', right? then there's another clue. look at the main bad guys in the last 2 films:

- ra's is just like batman, a vigilante who's out for justice, only taken to the extreme end of the spectrum.
- joker and batman, they're the two sides of same coin(that's why two-face worked perfectly in the context of the film), complete opposites of the spectrum.

so where do you go from that for a villain? how about one that is the combination of both above? how about a villain that is a reflection of who bruce/batman is, only it's a reflection through a cracked mirror.

a billionaire, perhaps, just like bruce. head of major corporation, just like bruce. endless resources at his disposal, just like bruce. big ambition. big skeleton in the closet. someone that make the mobs look like playground bullies. someone nobody can touch.

sure... but how does this connect with 'despair', 'noir', 'catwoman' you say? if you dont think a major corporation can cause despair, look at enron, look at bp oil. catwoman will still be a thief, but she's not a thief of trivial things like jewelry. instead, she'll be a thief of corporate secrets. a very agile corporate spy, who's fond of cats, of course.

so now you a femme fatal you dont know if you can trust, you have big corporation conspiring behind gotham's back, you have a fallen hero targeted by the mobs and the cops. and if you know your noir at all, i think all 3 requisites has been met to make a potentially cool noir.

who will tom hardy play then? one of two: bruce's cracked reflection in the mirror, or somebody hired by this cracked reflection to break the bat.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Tom Hardy for *gulp* Catwoman?
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'm not sure how I feel about Catwoman as Lex Luthor.

Wait, yes I am.

I see exactly what you're saying about their parallels, but I think she'd play a better role as an agent of his redemption, rather than an impediment.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

you guys read it wrong. 3 baddies: a lex luthor clone(tom hardy?), a corporate spy catwoman, and one luthor's henchman(tom hardy?).
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

The henchman could be Bane. Tom Hardy could be Bane possibly? Don't know. But I think this line of thinking makes sense... can't wait for more clues.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

you guys read it wrong. 3 baddies: a lex luthor clone(tom hardy?), a corporate spy catwoman, and one luthor's henchman(tom hardy?).

Oh. Still don't like the corporate angle. Really sick to death of 'big, bad, evil businessman'. It's cliche, it's unrealistic, and it plays to a sentiment that is based more in envy than any real sense of justice. Batman isn't Green Arrow.

He needs to keep it in the mobster direction. Integrating the psychotic, masked criminal with the sophistication of organized crime would make for the perfect enemy.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Oh. Still don't like the corporate angle. Really sick to death of 'big, bad, evil businessman'. It's cliche, it's unrealistic, and it plays to a sentiment that is based more in envy than any real sense of justice. Batman isn't Green Arrow.

He needs to keep it in the mobster direction. Integrating the psychotic, masked criminal with the sophistication of organized crime would make for the perfect enemy.

i was thinking the same actually. oh, no... not a lex luthor clone! it's cliche. yeah, but this is nolan we're talking about. he takes in the cliche and makes it seem fresh. that's how i felt when i saw bruce pressed the piano keys and a bookshelf opened up into a secret passage, before he took the elevator down to the batcave. bookshelf hiding a secret passage? wow, never seen that before. not the most original idea, but it felt fresh to me when used in the context of that scene.

nolan's bat universe is grounded in a semi-realistic setting, that makes major corporation as a baddie sounds very realistic. who are our real world villains anyway? one that can cause the most despair and devastation? mobsters? psychotic killers? or big corporations and politicians? nolan dealt with the mobs and killers already, i think it's time to up the ante.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

...who are our real world villains anyway? one that can cause the most despair and devastation? mobsters? psychotic killers? or big corporations and politicians? nolan dealt with the mobs and killers already, i think it's time to up the ante.

That is my point, exactly. The anti-corporate bible-thumping has gotten old, and it's bull____. Always has been. If Nolan wants to keep it real, he won't drag some farcical, conspiracy theory, Mother Jones boogeyman into the tale. May as well make it about Zionist lizardmen from Mars.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i take it you dont believe there's such a thing as a villainous corporation. but enron is real. big tobacco is real. monsanto is real. pg&e is real(the one showcased in erin brockovich). i'm sure there are countless other examples. i think the old saying 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' holds true. greed and the lust for power will always be part of the human condition. you can never get rid of it.

plus, some of the best noir feature powerful corporation as the baddie(blade runner, chinatown, constant gardener, etc). and i'm still gunning for nolan to make a bat noir, since that's the kind of story he's very good at telling.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

No, corporations can be evil. Lex Luthor wouldn't be a believable villain if there wasn't atleast the potential for it. It's just not in the nature of corporations to be successful and diabolical. Those examples are exceptions (several are poor examples), and they sure as hell don't amount to a valid generalization of big business.

Not all power is the same, and no, I don't agree that all power corrupts. The mold on that chestnut has mold.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

These last couple of posts make Batman seem really, really boring. The character has arguably the best and most fascinating rouges gallery but it's limited to a few choices, most of which are mob members and businessmen? Shame.
 
Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Well I think the crux of the issue is that the story somehow needs to focus on Batman again and his inner demons and how he can be redeemed. A focus on the villain/threat is bound to fail in comparison to TDK due to Joker/Ledger.
 
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