The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

[The Josh]

Yeah he looked fine once he got off his pig and took his helmet off.

Even the close ups on the pig are him but you can tell some of those pig moments are cgi. I thought Dain as a whole was pretty badass. I don't know if I wan Weta to make him on pig or not but I do want a Dain statue.

 

[DiFabio]

Are you serious? From the beginning I've always been amazed at how authentic it looked when Frodo pulled the rope up over Gollum's head. The way the rope briefly catches on one of his ears and his head tilts ever so subtly. You thought that was bad. Ah well, you're right, different strokes.

Are you serious?

In the Gollum featurette for the Extended Editions they say they use the SAME key animation for that rope sequence (and later extended version where he runs away and screams) as they did for that little sympathetic look he gives when Sam asks "what are we fighting for" in Osgiliath. It was one of the very first things they did (since those expressions were so important) and Jackson says in the ROTK commentary how he wished time permitted them to make it look as good as his scenes in ROTK. Obviously the animation is tweaked to fit the scenes, but it's essentially the same concept as, for example, inserting Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn close up of watching Haldir die, to looking up at Gandalf arriving with the Rohirrim arrival.

So if you have a problem with sad Gollum, you should have a problem with "shocked, they're letting me go" Gollum and that little scream and run thing he does later. That's exactly why I brought that moment up, figuring you'd be in agreement.

Still, point still stands. That can be chalked up as early Gollum and 13 years ago, nothing in the Hobbit has that excuse.

 

[JAWS]

I just watched FOTR for the first time in a couple years to see how it played while I was still buzzing on BOTFA. Yeah, it's better than the Hobbit. But its also better than...... Jaws.

This is the dumbest thing you have ever said Khev...

We are no longer friends.

 

[Khev]

No excuses about "film technology at the time." Gollum doesn't look dodgy in parts of TTT compared to how he appeard in AUJ, no, he looks dodgy compared to other scenes of *TTT.* And that's how all six films are. Lots of scenes of jaw dropping visuals and then one or more distracting moments.

 

[Khev]

This is the dumbest thing you have ever said Khev...

We are no longer friends.

Come on. You know its true. A "perfect" 3 hour movie will always trump a "perfect" two hour one.

 

[JAWS]

Spot on Khev. I'm with you that these films really only enhance each other. For me it's the same way the two books are different yet the same. It really is amazing at just how good not only FOTR is but all three LOTR movies are that even films as well done as The Hobbit can't touch them. As a fan of this topic it's been a damn good run.

The Hobbit... Like the Book.. Is a bit more soft and friendly.. As it should be.. It was a kids story and I think it fits just fine.. It has a different tone and it should. LOTR gets dark and depressing.. Like it should.. I would not want The Hobbit to be so heavy.

The Hobbit films have their issues but as a whole they are fun and good entertainment. They are just no LOTR... Nor should they be.

Absolutely. Obviously I find the notion that the Hobbit films suck and are worse than the SW prequels to be utter nonsense but whatever, people are going to believe whatever they choose to believe. Watching FOTR right after BOTFA I also found myself even more sympathetic toward Frodo. He seemed even more out of his element than Bilbo and that was *with* the company of other hobbits. Poor guy was fleeing from Ringwraiths and Balrogs on his very first outing.

I also found Gandalf's "death" to have more weight this time around. When you watch FOTR first you like Gandalf because he's a likable guy but everyone else seems to like and know him a lot more than the audience. Now after journeying through three films with him seeing him fall and everyone write him off as dead has even more impact than before.

While I think one can make comparisons to the PT of Star Wars to The Hobbit with it's over reliance on CGI.... The Hobbit is a far better and more successful trilogy of films then the SW PT... SW PT is better left forgotten and ignored.

 

[JAWS]

Come on. You know its true. A "perfect" 3 hour movie will always trump a "perfect" two hour one.

 

[JAWS]

Come on. You know its true. A "perfect" 3 hour movie will always trump a "perfect" two hour one.

Seriously though.. I love FOTR... It's the best of the bunch.. I find the TTT and ROTK have not aged as well and have some parts I don't care for... But FOTR is perfect.... It's number 6 on my all time list behind JAWS, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Die Hard, and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

And while one can argue that it belongs higher on the list... It does not Touch JAWS... But then again.. Nothing Does.

 

[Irvy]

I don't get where they suddenly find those mountain goat things to reach the boss battle at the end? I thought there was an army of them in the trailer?

 

[DiFabio]

And while one can argue that it belongs higher on the list... It does not Touch JAWS... But then again.. Nothing Does.

FOTR touches it tenderly, has it's way with it, then slaughters JAWS until it slowly sinks to the bottom of the ocean with the bottom feeders.

 

[The Josh]

The Hobbit... Like the Book.. Is a bit more soft and friendly.. As it should be.. It was a kids story and I think it fits just fine.. It has a different tone and it should. LOTR gets dark and depressing.. Like it should.. I would not want The Hobbit to be so heavy.

The Hobbit films have their issues but as a whole they are fun and good entertainment. They are just no LOTR... Nor should they be.

I think we can agree here. The Hobbit movies do the right balancing act, IMO of being that softer movie whe having enough seriousness to blend into LOTR the way the book does.

We can't agree on Jaws though. For me it's an alright movie but there are plenty of things I'd watch before it.

I don't get where they suddenly find those mountain goat things to reach the boss battle at the end? I thought there was an army of them in the trailer?

I think we'll get something in the EE.

 

[RIDDICK]

FOTR touches it tenderly, has it's way with it, then slaughters JAWS until it slowly sinks to the bottom of the ocean with the bottom feeders.

 

[Khev]

I don't think this shot of Azog climbing over the Mirkwood battlement was ever explained.

Obviously they replaced him with a generic orc but for Azog to have *ever* been in that scene would have called for some major revisions not just in orc designs but in how the story flowed. Perhaps Bolg didn't call Azog away until originally after the barrel sequence? But then Azog couldn't have shot Kili due to his missing arm. Perhaps the orc that Tauriel captured originally shot Kili? Hence his intimate knowledge of the dwarf's wound? I'm surprised that PJ didn't make any mention during that portion of the DOS commentary.

 

[The Josh]

I would venture to guess this was a scene done up before the movie became a trilogy. Only thing I can figure.

 

[JAWS]

FOTR touches it tenderly, has it's way with it, then slaughters JAWS until it slowly sinks to the bottom of the ocean with the bottom feeders.

Oh yeah? Well Batman Sucks!

I think we can agree here. The Hobbit movies do the right balancing act, IMO of being that softer movie whe having enough seriousness to blend into LOTR the way the book does.

They blend very well IMO as far as tone... I wish he used more Practical effects and sets though

We can't agree on Jaws though. For me it's an alright movie but there are plenty of things I'd watch before it.

Booooo on your JAWS Comment Josh... Booooooo Hisssssssss!

I just hope you won't watch Indy and the KOTCS before it.

Seriously I won't take up a Hobbit thread Explaining to all you novices about the perfection that is JAWS!

 

[DiFabio]

While they were cleaning up the transfer for JAWS, they should have painted over the original Bruce shark with a new and improved CG version using the same technology that gave us the fantastic Azog and Dain characters. THEN maybe JAWS would be perfect.

 

[The Josh]

I might watch that before. I do love Indy.

 

[rushmore223]

Josh and Khev, the two of you need to get together in the real world so you can give eachother high fives all day long.

 

[DiFabio]

I see a few people (not on here) are defending the Hobbit movies by saying, "well, it not LOTR and the subject matter is not as heavy, it's based on a children's book!".

That seems like a load of bull. If the films are based on a children's fairy tale, what was up with the long, dour battle? There were close up shots of butchered elf and Laketown people! Thorin was going to throw Bilbo over the ledge to break his neck just because of the truce. I could feel they were trying to make the Battle of the Five armies be as epic and grandiose as LOTR. If it's a children's fairy tale, why does it end with a young, neurotic Bilbo, fiddling around in his pocket for the ring with forbidding "evil ring" music? Shouldn't it have left off on a more uplifting note? The movies aren't about Sauron or the ring after all. If it's "not LOTR", why do we have Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Saruman going into Sauron's spooky house of thrills and fighting Ringwraiths? Why Legolas or the Strider references that needlessly ponder to fans? Why Fellowship cue music when the Fellowship doesn't even exist? This isn't LOTR right? If this is a lighter fare, why the need for a copy-cat trilogy when the subject matter is more straight forward (Hobbit reluctantly leaves hole, gets dwarves out of trouble with his cunning, meets exotic characters and returns home an unlikely hero).

All those slow motion shots from the seizure inducing Sauron flame effect, to Galadriel going psycho, to Thorin getting trippy for three minutes in the gold pool and even the ice battle where Thorin just watches Azog float beneath him seemed like unnecessary bloat. We get these things but no wrap up on the Erebor, Thorin's funeral and what became of Laketown? Par that with side stories that don't even belong (Alfrid, Tauriel/Kili love, orc father/son) and it seems like unnecessary dramatic fluff that has no business being in a "lighter", "non-LOTR" adventure. They're all false stakes. Why should I care about Gandalf being trapped in a cage when I know he's going to make it out okay? Why should I care about Legolas fighting an Orc-Son when I know that A. Legolas is going to kill him in some "spectacular" fashion and, B. Orcs don't care about each other or show compassion, so what are the ramifications to Orc-Dad on the ice who will die shortly as well? If those things aren't needless filler, then why are they there to over complicate a relatively simple story? This is Bilbo's tale, a tale he tells with enthusiasm and passion, yet, after an exhausting battle it ends with a damaged goods Bilbo. I half expected him to check out after looking around at his picked through house (before it cuts to "LOTR"). Also, why would you have Tauriel/Fili/Legolas/Thranduil "love hurts so much!" scene have as much, or more importance over Bilbo and the death of Thorin? Huh? Those two are the main characters! Guess they needed that punchy Aragorn reference to promote next year's "Fellowship of the Ring" film . . . oh, wait.

The movies I dislike the most are the ones that always make me question and ask, "why?". After days of letting these Hobbit movies fester in my brain, that's all I can think of is "why". Why introduce battle worms if they're not going to be in the battle? Because of a sentence in the book? Why then focus on things that weren't in the book? If it's not LOTR, why treat it like it kinda-sorta is? Why does Thorin have a literal "dragon sickness" that he snaps out of by himself when simply being greedy would have been more compelling? I don't really think you need three movies filled with epic CGI, ADD battles, multiple contrived subplots and other distractions to tell the simple story of a Hobbit that was swept up in an adventure that made him appreciate his home and life more.

 

[quadcent]

I see a few people (not on here) are defending the Hobbit movies by saying, "well, it not LOTR and the subject matter is not as heavy, it's based on a children's book!".

That seems like a load of bull. If the films are based on a children's fairy tale, what was up with the long, dour battle? There were close up shots of butchered elf and Laketown people! Thorin was going to throw Bilbo over the ledge to break his neck just because of the truce. I could feel they were trying to make the Battle of the Five armies be as epic and grandiose as LOTR. If it's a children's fairy tale, why does it end with a young, neurotic Bilbo, fiddling around in his pocket for the ring with forbidding "evil ring" music? Shouldn't it have left off on a more uplifting note? The movies aren't about Sauron or the ring after all. If it's "not LOTR", why do we have Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Saruman going into Sauron's spooky house of thrills and fighting Ringwraiths? Why Legolas or the Strider references that needlessly ponder to fans? Why Fellowship cue music when the Fellowship doesn't even exist? This isn't LOTR right? If this is a lighter fare, why the need for a copy-cat trilogy when the subject matter is more straight forward (Hobbit reluctantly leaves hole, gets dwarves out of trouble with his cunning, meets exotic characters and returns home an unlikely hero).

All those slow motion shots from the seizure inducing Sauron flame effect, to Galadriel going psycho, to Thorin getting trippy for three minutes in the gold pool and even the ice battle where Thorin just watches Azog float beneath him seemed like unnecessary bloat. We get these things but no wrap up on the Erebor, Thorin's funeral and what became of Laketown? Par that with side stories that don't even belong (Alfrid, Tauriel/Kili love, orc father/son) and it seems like unnecessary dramatic fluff that has no business being in a "lighter", "non-LOTR" adventure. They're all false stakes. Why should I care about Gandalf being trapped in a cage when I know he's going to make it out okay? Why should I care about Legolas fighting an Orc-Son when I know that A. Legolas is going to kill him in some "spectacular" fashion and, B. Orcs don't care about each other or show compassion, so what are the ramifications to Orc-Dad on the ice who will die shortly as well? If those things aren't needless filler, then why are they there to over complicate a relatively simple story? This is Bilbo's tale, a tale he tells with enthusiasm and passion, yet, after an exhausting battle it ends with a damaged goods Bilbo. I half expected him to check out after looking around at his picked through house (before it cuts to "LOTR"). Also, why would you have Tauriel/Fili/Legolas/Thranduil "love hurts so much!" scene have as much, or more importance over Bilbo and the death of Thorin? Huh? Those two are the main characters! Guess they needed that punchy Aragorn reference to promote next year's "Fellowship of the Ring" film . . . oh, wait.

The movies I dislike the most are the ones that always make me question and ask, "why?". After days of letting these Hobbit movies fester in my brain, that's all I can think of is "why". Why introduce battle worms if they're not going to be in the battle? Because of a sentence in the book? Why then focus on things that weren't in the book? If it's not LOTR, why treat it like it kinda-sorta is? Why does Thorin have a literal "dragon sickness" that he snaps out of by himself when simply being greedy would have been more compelling? I don't really think you need three movies filled with epic CGI, ADD battles, multiple contrived subplots and other distractions to tell the simple story of a Hobbit that was swept up in an adventure that made him appreciate his home and life more.

simply put, 3 movies means more money. just like how the trend is now to split the final book in a series into two movies, more money plain and simple...I can see why, did they need to do it....No, but everyone and everything is now measured by the take at the office, so I wouldn't be expecting anything to change anytime soon....