The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon Prime Video - September 2, 2022

[crows]

Regarding the Arondir/Bronwyn romance going nowhere, there’s a real world reason it ended so abruptly.

https://screenrant.com/why-bronwyn-not-in-rings-of-power-season-2-death-nazanin-boniadi/

I FORGOT SHE EXISTED

 

[abake]

View attachment 725881
View attachment 725882

I know it's sacrilege, but I've always felt that Tolkien was pretty crap at writing.
Love his ideas and world building, but his writing is sometimes a real chore to get through (and I've read The Lord of the Rings three times). Plus the fact that he never got his **** together to unify his own mythos is... off-putting.
It's a testament to how good and solid the core ideas and characters are that despite all that I still love the damn thing.

 

[chrisstbh]

Great episode I thought this week. I hope Charlie Vickers career blows up after his performance as Sauron, he kills it every episode and steals the show every time he's on screen.

 

[Sassafras]

If you haven't watched the show, how did you reach that conclusion about her character? Or is the "it" you're referring to Season 2? I actually liked the her, but then I remembered liking the actress in Homeland so I was probably predisposed to giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Season 1. Am always up for a fiesty new female. (Have a sliding scale re canon/non canon characters or events, depending if they work for me or not).

But IMO she was dull. The whole elf romance thing was dull. The elf is dull.

I'll watch S2 when I can binge it. Not many series IMO these days where I just hafta watch, like Andor.

 

[Sassafras]

I know it's sacrilege, but I've always felt that Tolkien was pretty crap at writing.
Love his ideas and world building, but his writing is sometimes a real chore to get through (and I've read The Lord of the Rings three times). Plus the fact that he never got his **** together to unify his own mythos is... off-putting.
It's a testament to how good and solid the core ideas and characters are that despite all that I still love the damn thing.

*Grins*
Read
"How Tolkien Sucks: An Essay About Literary Excitement Kindle Edition
by David Ellis Dickerson" (Amazon)

Some stuff that's pretty funny, like Tolkien occasionally sounding like a tour guide. Worth the dollar or whatever this costs for the laughs.

So, yeah. But at the same time - it's like PJ's Middle Earth - there's things that are a slog, or questionable, or irritating. But magnificent work.

 

[Alatar]

Ugh, another hint that the Stranger is Gandalf. He asks to learn from Tom how to wield “the secret fire.” I know the hints just keep coming but I still want him to be Pallando. Maybe all wizards ultimately use the secret fire, not just Gandalf.

 

[Sassafras]

Ugh, another hint that the Stranger is Gandalf. He asks to learn from Tom how to wield “the secret fire.” I know the hints just keep coming but I still want him to be Pallando. Maybe all wizards ultimately use the secret fire, not just Gandalf.

This sounds so awful. Memba berrries thrown at a wall hoping something will stick.

Without any appreciation for depth and all that. Exactly like bad fan fiction. Maybe a Time Lord will show up.

It will be something to watch while waiting around for Andor tho.

 

[chrisstbh]

Ugh, another hint that the Stranger is Gandalf. He asks to learn from Tom how to wield “the secret fire.” I know the hints just keep coming but I still want him to be Pallando. Maybe all wizards ultimately use the secret fire, not just Gandalf.

Seems like a misdirect to me, why would Gandalf be the only servant of the "secret fire".

 

[lordnastrond]

Ugh, another hint that the Stranger is Gandalf. He asks to learn from Tom how to wield “the secret fire.” I know the hints just keep coming but I still want him to be Pallando. Maybe all wizards ultimately use the secret fire, not just Gandalf.

WHY in the NAME OF ERU ILUVATAR would Tom Bombadil know more about the Flame Imperishable than Olorin of the Maia.
Why would some wild pagan nature-deity know more about God than one of his own angels....

God I hate this show so much

 

[chrisstbh]

God I hate this show so much

I do find it funny when people get mad over their own theories or speculation for things that haven't happened or may never happen.

 

[Alatar]

Seems like a misdirect to me, why would Gandalf be the only servant of the "secret fire".

Yeah, it sounds like an elemental force that all magic users can manipulate. Gandalf might end up with more juice in wielding it than most by virtue of possessing one of the three elven rings of power, Narya.

 

[lordnastrond]

I do find it funny when people get mad over their own theories or speculation for things that haven't happened or may never happen.

My hate for this show is well documented by now and has much supporting it.
My above statement was more about the Tom Bombadil as Olorin's Yoda thing than anything else - a pagan god inspired entity teaching an actual angel about the nature of God and the Flame Imperishable.
But the above wouldn't surprise me at this point, the writers have no respect or reverence for Tolkien's world and writing.

Yeah, it sounds like an elemental force that all magic users can manipulate. Gandalf might end up with more juice in wielding it than most by virtue of possessing one of the three elven rings of power, Narya.

Melkor would have loved to know he could apparently wield the Flame Imperishable this whole time

 

[Alatar]

WHY in the NAME OF ERU ILUVATAR would Tom Bombadil know more about the Flame Imperishable than Olorin of the Maia.
Why would some wild pagan nature-deity know more about God than one of his own angels....

Wait.... tell me they are not gonna lean into the widely discredited fan-theory that Tom Bombadil is Eru Iluvatar?

God I hate this show so much

Sometimes I wonder if he’s a manifestation of the sheer mystery of existence. Of it’s inscrutability. But I also like the notion that he’s soul of Arda, of the entire world itself. Like the concept of Gaia. Which has a male aspect and a female aspect in the couple of Tom and Goldberry.

 

[Alatar]

My hate for this show is well documented by now and has much supporting it.
My above statement was more about the Tom Bombadil as Olorin's Yoda thing than anything else - a pagan god inspired entity teaching an actual angel about the nature of God and the Flame Imperishable.
But the above wouldn't surprise me at this point, the writers have no respect or reverence for Tolkien's world and writing.



Melkor would have loved to know he could apparently wield the Flame Imperishable this whole time

Is it out of the question that Melkor knows about it and can use it if he wants? I’m not enough of a Tolkien lore nerd to know.

 

[lordnastrond]

Sometimes I wonder if he’s a manifestation of the sheer mystery of existence. Of it’s inscrutability. But I also like the notion that he’s soul of Arda, of the entire world itself. Like the concept of Gaia. Which has a male aspect and a female aspect in the couple of Tom and Goldberry.

Thats always been my take on his nature and origin as well, we know Bombadil can't be a higher heavenly power like Eru or even one of the Maia because its stated that he too would be eventually overcome and be destroyed should Evil win, which ties in with the Industrial themes of Sauron's brand of domination and how it is destructive to the natural world.
His whole vibe is very natural and Green-Man pagan deity - so it would make sense if he and Goldberry were physical avatars of the world itself like you say.
It would also make sense with the things he says about being in the world before the Dark Lord [meaning Morgoth] came to Arda, as the world was formed in the Song and then the Ainur [Maia and Valar] descended to it, so the only thing that would have been on Earth at that time... would have been the Earth itself.
But then again, as you say he may simply embody mystery and inscrutability itself - Tolkien firmly believed that his setting must have unexplained elements and mysteries.

Is it out of the question that Melkor knows about it and can use it if he wants? I’m not enough of a Tolkien lore nerd to know.

No, not a chance.
The Flame Imperishable is Melkor's entire motivation and reason for rebelling against Eru, the Flame is the very power of God himself - the power of true Creation, the ability to make something from nothing.
This power belongs to Eru and Eru alone, that is why Gandalf describes himself as a "Servant of the Secret Fire" for the Fire and Eru are One, as an unfallen Istari he is a faithful servant of Eru's greater purpose and weilds his authority - a fact made clear when Eru himself returns him to Middle Earth as Gandalf the White.
With it Melkor would be able to create his own new universe and rule over it absolutely as Eru does over Arda, but because he cannot wield it he resorts to distorting other creatures into his servants and his image - hence why he makes the Orcs from warping the Elves, Werewolves from infusing wolves with evil spirits and his own power etc.
The fact that these creatures are not truly "his" creations is also why Melkor is consumed by nihilistic rage and destructive pettiness, he wishes to destroy everything that doesnt come from himself and so once he is done corrupting and despoiling Arda and all of Eru's works he would then destroy them until there is nothing left.
Making The Secret Fire just a generic term for magic, or just a form of magic others can use, is directly detrimental to the entire mythology/cosmology and spirituality of Tolkien's work... which considering the mythology and spirituality of the setting were by far the most important aspects to Tolkien himself as a reflection of his own belief system, is quite unforgiveable.

 

[ZE_501]

Yeah, I always thought of Bombadil and Goldberry as nature spirits, elemental beings above mortal concerns.