The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[chrisstbh]

Also now that HK87 Assassin Droids have appeared now can we get the antagonist for one episode to be a HK47 model that constantly calls Mando a meatbag and gets sassy with him during their confrontations?

 

[jkno]

 

[jye4ever]

Azog the Defiler
Grogu the Devourer

Sounds like a pretty fitting title for the little guy to me, lol.

Perfect lol

Does anyone know if Ray Fisher has canceled Dave Filoni for changing Rosario's skin color yet?

Wait until Fisher learns that they made Lando a father who dipped lol

 

[jye4ever]

I just heard David Prowse died


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I thought he was dead already lol

Well that means JEJ will be next.

 

[xipotec]

Yes, I always have a much better time accepting a recast if both the younger and older actor appear in the same movie/show. Young and old Forrest in Forrest Gump, young and old Indy in Last Crusade, young and old John Connor in T2, etc.

Having Sebastian Stan fill in for Luke's "middle years" would be like what Martin Freeman did for Ian Holm's Bilbo. It could work but would definitely be best if it was in a manner with old Luke recounting a tale or something like that.

Welll, I am not so sure that would actually work .

Why? One word. Solo.

Many SW fans look for anything in the new materials to rip them apart. They think somehow finding an imaginary chink in the armor makes them a bigger more pure fan

The new young Solo was fine, hell I think he did a great job, much much better than that YouTube guy who does a Han impersonation. , and Glovers Lando was perfect,

We do not really need to have perfect likenesses , just accurate acting for that characters stage in life.

It?s similar to what some are saying about RD portrayal of Ashoka. Wooden? Stiff? What did they expect her to be like? After everything she?s been though? Meeting a stranger from a group that has historically been an enemy? She reacted perfectly to the plot developments , especially her reaction to seeing Grogu.

I knew we had a great portrayal just seeing that smirk at the end when Mandos ship took off. The portrayal was subtle , like Solo, which is how it should be.....not an imitation of someone else.


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[Spartan Rex]

To the close minded people who wants CGI or Deepfake technology, i suggest this:

Lol, I guess that?s directed at me.
I was just thinking of a cameo where Luke picks the kid up and takes him to be trained, not a series.
Still, Deepfake when done right is extremely impressive, give its limitation of profile or angle shots.
Stan does look a lot like Hamill on steroids, I?d probably lighten his hair a bit for live action.

 

[Prime Clone]

I thought he was dead already lol

Thank god, thought it was just me

 

[Sassafras]

What a fantastic post! As a "story first" guy, my hat's off to you for focusing so much on the actual narrative.

I disagree with you on a few points, but where I'm aligned 100% is the section about Ahsoka's decision process on the baby being trained going forward. As I was watching the end of the episode I almost started laughing out loud at how lamely-constructed it seemed to me.

She first gives a perfectly well-reasoned objection to Grogu being trained in the ways of the Jedi - one that resonates with anyone who knows her character history with Anakin and the Jedi Order. That's some great character-journey evolution. Then, "Okay, I guess I can trust myself to do it and avoid the pitfalls that I'm uniquely familiar with." Then...poof! "Nah, if the baby decides he wants to be trained (if he can focus on something other than shiny knobs), I trust whoever out there happens to pick up on his Force-sensitivity should be able to keep the kid from becoming destructive with his super powers." Uhhh...say what!?

I would try to change your mind on some of the other objections you have, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make a dent since your view is well thought out. Thanks for the great read.
...........
Or, his naive innocent toddler behavior may be a side effect of trauma and isolation after being hidden away and shutting down his use of the Force. Like stunted (or even reverse) growth.

Or, they might reveal later that he's actually putting on an act of sorts. We've seen someone from his species do something along those lines before.

The issue might get fleshed out at some point.

Thank you - it's not that my mind couldn't be changed on some points - for one thing my total guess of Baby's planet is heavily influenced by C. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy and description of the rakh species (species of attempted genocide who live in harmony with the forces of the planet, unlike humans) but there's other stories with similar themes. E.g. to Yoda's species, wielding the Force isn't a big deal. It's who they are, inherently. But being off the grid, it's not something that comes into play as "balancing the galaxy" - being universe leaders wouldn't be something they would be interested in. Even Yoda was more teacher than warrior "for my ally is the Force"

How Lucas may have envisioned things, I don't know.

I don't think Baby's original presentation as naive is a side effect of trauma. Hafta assume, yes, some bad things happened, and he was stolen at some point. Guessing his captors didn't pay a lot of attention to him, but he wasn't mistreated. He's described as "very healthy".

But he's too d@mn happy swallowing frogs and even pattering after Mando fairly early on. I'd go so far as to say it's the Force that allows Baby to "see" this baby-snatching Mandalorian has a noble heart and all, so basically Baby has found his father/protector. Minutes after shaking off the meds, he was grabbing for his "ball"...e.g. puppies and kittens behave that way, as soon as they feel safe again. Severely traumatized try to hide.

Ultimately what's done is done; IMO it's bad tho when the narrative turns sloppy as even if future writers/Favreau wanna fix the mess, they have to work extra hard to do it, or just jarringly ignore it. Filoni can do better. Am totally guessing - and it's been pointed out on this forum - that Ahoska is Filoni's creation and he was so involved with a lavish presentation of her and trying to ratchet things up to this big name drop, he completely fumbled the ball.

"Never his mind on where he was...what he was doing....". And if you completely left out Din D'jarin and Baby in the story, it would pretty well work as a 20-minute Rebels short. Ahsoka kicks butt, has a sad chat with old villager or some flashbacks, kicks some more butt, final fight, name drop, villagers dance, cut to close-up of tiny white flower opening in the blasted landscape. *Yeah* we're all gonna get a Rebels live action sequel! Happy fandom!
(Except for the many who DON'T watch Rebels and are going "Who the &^%$ is Thrawn?" but guess as far as Filoni is concerned, if u don't know u are of no account anyway, and barely of account if u watch the Mandalorian for, you know, the Mandalorian/Baby)

Feel bad - this is the slippery slope that blighted the ST - that started out so well IMO. Neglecting the writing. Not stopping to think how if you do A, it's gonna affect B down the road.

Anyway, I'd like to think that one fumble isn't gonna derail a series that I've thought of as amazing, but some of this is pretty lame. Kinda dreading the next episodes, or whatever. Or Filoni should never, ever be left alone to write a script for this series in the future.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don't think Baby's original presentation as naive is a side effect of trauma. Hafta assume, yes, some bad things happened, and he was stolen at some point. Guessing his captors didn't pay a lot of attention to him, but he wasn't mistreated. He's described as "very healthy".

Logically, I agree with you. But as a SW nerd, I need to reconcile that 900-year-old Yoda said that he'd been training Jedi for 800 years. If the baby is 50 and is still "cooing" rather than speaking, is it possible that the species has a maturation jump between the age of 50 and 100 that would put this baby in position to train Jedi students 50 years from now? Sure. But for me, that's just not an intuitive progression. So I wouldn't mind if the blank spot of his memory that Ahsoka references is somehow used to "massage" this aspect.

Not stopping to think how if you do A, it's gonna affect B down the road.

You're preaching to the choir with me. Plotting out the consequences of narrative threads is all the more crucial in a franchise like SW because everyone succumbs to the allure of making *everything* interconnected. That's the pathway to plot holes, but no one cares.

Could The Mandalorian have been very entertaining and successful as its own self-contained entity? Absolutely. But now it's directly connected to the Skywalker Saga, and the connections will likely only be increasing from here on out.

Now that the baby origin is intentionally connected to Jedi training in the prequel era, it opens avenues of inquiry that weren't necessarily there before. The baby could've just been a mysterious anomaly, but now he's tied to Yoda's Jedi Council. That means Yoda can reach across the galaxy to keep tabs on young Luke, but chose to ignore keeping tabs on this little green (vulnerable) prodigy of his own species for 20+ years. Not necessarily a problem, but still a needless thread to tuck away.

Anyway, I'd like to think that one fumble isn't gonna derail a series that I've thought of as amazing, but some of this is pretty lame. Kinda dreading the next episodes, or whatever. Or Filoni should never, ever be left alone to write a script for this series in the future.

If you're a fan of TCW and Rebels, you might want to see how many of those episodes Filoni was actually credited as script writer on. I think you'll be surprised how few the number is. And if you pick out your favorite Rebels episodes, I bet you'd see the name "Kinberg" or "Gilroy" getting script credit.

There's no question that Dave is the "idea man" at LFL right now. No way are Favreau and company steeped enough in SW lore to have come up with the storylines we've seen week to week. But being an idea man doesn't necessarily translate to being adept at narrative composition. Two distinctly different skills.

BTW, don't blame the creators for the interconnectivity of the SW landscape. That's a fan demand more or less. And they themselves are fans too. It is what it is.

 

[xipotec]

If you do some math, figure yoda was in his 80 / 90 ? in human years, then that?s 10/100 ratio of humans to Yoda?s.

That makes Grogu about 5 years old in human terms of maturity.

Which is about right for his maturity and training.

We know from PT they thought Anakin was too old to start training at 9 years old.

So basically the began training a Grogu likely from close to his birth in HIS years.

It all works .


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[chrisstbh]

If you do some math, figure yoda was in his 80 / 90 ? in human years, then that?s 10/100 ratio of humans to Yoda?s.

That makes Grogu about 5 years old in human terms of maturity.

Which is about right for his maturity and training.

We know from PT they thought Anakin was too old to start training at 9 years old.

So basically the began training a Grogu likely from close to his birth in HIS years.

It all works .


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If we're saying he's around 5 then he should be able to talk a bit etc. like a human child, but he's also been in hiding and seemingly mostly alone for 28 years since the end of the clone wars, so that could have stunted his development a bit in that regard.

 

[j97e1]

I thought he was dead already lol

Well that means JEJ will be next.

Thank god, thought it was just me

Oh yeah. HAHA. LOL.
That's so funny.
ROTFLMAO.

 

[Sassafras]

Logically, I agree with you. But as a SW nerd, I need to reconcile that 900-year-old Yoda said that he'd been training Jedi for 800 years. If the baby is 50 and is still "cooing" rather than speaking, is it possible that the species has a maturation jump between the age of 50 and 100 that would put this baby in position to train Jedi students 50 years from now? Sure. But for me, that's just not an intuitive progression. So I wouldn't mind if the blank spot of his memory that Ahsoka references is somehow used to "massage" this aspect.

You're preaching to the choir with me. Plotting out the consequences of narrative threads is all the more crucial in a franchise like SW because everyone succumbs to the allure of making *everything* interconnected. That's the pathway to plot holes, but no one cares.

Could The Mandalorian have been very entertaining and successful as its own self-contained entity? Absolutely. But now it's directly connected to the Skywalker Saga, and the connections will likely only be increasing from here on out.

Now that the baby origin is intentionally connected to Jedi training in the prequel era, it opens avenues of inquiry that weren't necessarily there before. The baby could've just been a mysterious anomaly, but now he's tied to Yoda's Jedi Council. That means Yoda can reach across the galaxy to keep tabs on young Luke, but chose to ignore keeping tabs on this little green (vulnerable) prodigy of his own species for 20+ years. Not necessarily a problem, but still a needless thread to tuck away.

If you're a fan of TCW and Rebels, you might want to see how many of those episodes Filoni was actually credited as script writer on. I think you'll be surprised how few the number is. And if you pick out your favorite Rebels episodes, I bet you'd see the name "Kinberg" or "Gilroy" getting script credit.

There's no question that Dave is the "idea man" at LFL right now. No way are Favreau and company steeped enough in SW lore to have come up with the storylines we've seen week to week. But being an idea man doesn't necessarily translate to being adept at narrative composition. Two distinctly different skills.

BTW, don't blame the creators for the interconnectivity of the SW landscape. That's a fan demand more or less. And they themselves are fans too. It is what it is.

Srsly, thank you. It's nice to be heard and seen. I firmly believe that words have power, and so does the story. I really don't need every little detail spelled out. Like how the Winter Soldier's arm actually works (the TWS torture scene and the shot of the rippling plates of his arm were enough) or how a hyperdrive works. Or even where Din D'jarin picked up a new beskar thigh plate. (It might be fun to see him haggling at a SW thrift store or re-forging one himself, but I don't NEED that to happen).

But then u run into something where the BS meter is redlining. And the hole-digging careens on, like the writer/director can't even stop themselves.

THIS "But being an idea man doesn't necessarily translate to being adept at narrative composition. Two distinctly different skills." I keep contrasting this episode with the story flow of S2 Episode 1. Or 2. Or 3....

I had vaguely noticed that Rebels had additional writers besides Filoni - will check the credits harder. Far as I can tell, a lot of happy fandom is too glassy-eyed over the bright white swords to pay much attention to anything else (and I don't mean this board). But they should. It's like, with TFA I was OK with the load of rehash, and even rolled with Luke becoming a myth (in 30 years?). Figured Abrams was just settling in. And then...well there was the whole Holdo doesn't tell anyone the plan for no reason, and all that stuff. One WTF after another.

IF this series doesn't re-tighten and I gotta adjust my thinking about it, well, ur right. I'll be sad if, as I view things, F&F derail this series from what I thought was gonna be a focused, fresh approach ("something fans have never seen before...elements that SW fans would recognize but something new") to "Disney gave us a huge budget and we're gonna do Infinity Wars as Star Wars, and stuff in EVERYONE, including bringing Qui-Gon back from the dead - like that Conan/Valeria scene! Narrative flow, reasonable logic, and consistency is completely optional and it's too much work anyway. Yippee!"

It's not what enthralled me about this series in the first place. And I thought F&F would've seen the ST fallout and would be srsly checking themselves.

Thanx again for ur post; guess we'll see re the last 3 episodes. Can only hope Favreau and possibly others inwardly cringed when filming wound up in February and stepped in to smooth some of this over, and will keep an eye on Filloni in the future. If not, likely I'll save some money on collectibles in the long run.

 

[user 64404]

Lol, I guess that?s directed at me.
I was just thinking of a cameo where Luke picks the kid up and takes him to be trained, not a series.
Still, Deepfake when done right is extremely impressive, give its limitation of profile or angle shots.
Stan does look a lot like Hamill on steroids, I?d probably lighten his hair a bit for live action.

Actually it is not directed to you, its just there is no need for cgi or deepfake if there is an actor who can play the part.

 

[Prime Clone]

So does this mean Luke is no longer the "return" of the Jedi? Ahsoka (and Grogu) were out there all along?

 

[sithocan]

I get what you are saying, but we've seen a bunch of mature Togruta now. They go down to her waist in Rebels, as does Shaak Ti's in the PT and TCW. Other female Togruta we see sometimes get even longer and have to wrap them in order to keep them in place. I don't agree that they were just longer because of the art style, it's been shown multiple times that they grow.

This is the canon description of Lekku, they grow with age, same in Twi'leks.

Whatever their reason for it, it doesn't matter, because to me and plenty of others it just doesn't look right because of what we've been shown previously.

I'd prefer them to be longer too.

 

[chrisstbh]

So does this mean Luke is no longer the "return" of the Jedi? Ahsoka (and Grogu) were out there all along?

Ahsoka isn't a Jedi during the OT. She may consider herself one again, but she didn't before. Grogu isn't really a Jedi, he's a child that's been in hiding for 28 years.
Ezra was technically a Jedi, but he's been MIA since before A New Hope.

Let's say Luke was the last Jedi willing to take up the fight. Luke was the only one that could turn Vader and cause the "defeat" of Palpatine anyway so it doesn't matter.

 

[Prime Clone]

Let's say Luke was the last Jedi willing to take up the fight. Luke was the only one that could turn Vader and cause the "defeat" of Palpatine anyway so it doesn't matter.

Okay, that works for me!

 

[Khev]

Yeah Yoda didn't say the last of the Force wielders you will be he said the last of the Jedi will you be.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Thanx again for ur post; guess we'll see re the last 3 episodes. Can only hope Favreau and possibly others inwardly cringed when filming wound up in February and stepped in to smooth some of this over, and will keep an eye on Filloni in the future. If not, likely I'll save some money on collectibles in the long run.

We don't know for sure how any of this will shake out. So, perhaps Filoni is using this season for character drops and references that set up spinoff series more so than future Mando plots. Then you might get self-contained Mando back and you can be grooving with it again soon enough. It's possible, I suppose.

Yeah Yoda didn't say the last of the Force wielders you will be he said the last of the Jedi will you be.

Can I take that as your promise that Mace Windu won't be answering Grogu's call on Tython? And that Ezra Bridger didn't resurface before ROTJ?

I'll hold you to it, Khev.