The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[jye4ever]

I added a little bit to my last post addressing the PT Jedi as well.

Watch Obi Wan vs Vader go savage on round 2

Doomcockers are going to erupt in cheers lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

The original Star Wars was kind of a sloppy messy film. The editor is what made it into an artistic gem, turning a half-baked cake into a dessert.

I mean Resident Evil movies are artistic, but that doesn't make them good.

Lucas had control overs ROTJ and the prequels and Indy 4, all of them to me are at best mediocre works of art.

That's why I specified a period. You are taking the whole of a career against perhaps the best part now. As I said, we'll see how long Favreau can surprise us.

Comparing Favreau to Spielberg is wrong, comparing him to Lucas in his prime is closer but still I don't believe it equates well, and comparing him to Nolan -- who has made a host of original material -- also seems far fetched.

To say something like the editor saved Star Wars for Lucas (and seemingly dismissing much of Lucas' other work in that era)...while saying and that Favreau is controlling all just tells me you really love Favreau. And I can't really debate that.


Pulling this full circle, I still say Favreau is more talented than JJ... with a poor comparison, its like comparing Spielberg to Joe Dante back in the day.

 

[JAWS]

Oh oh doomcockers I hope you are sitting.

Boyega announced he is in talks with Disney with making things right and that he respects Disney for trying.

That screams Disney + Finn prequel or Jedi in training Finn to me!

True that Daisy said that while she loves Rey and the ST she wants to try new things but when new things are shut down because of covid and Disney backs up a truck full of money then revisiting Rey just might be new again lol

if you're going to jump out a window may I suggest fifth floor and up lol

Where did you see this?

I read that he is open to coming back in a series or even voicing an animated series for Finn.

I have not read anything else.

 

[hellgrammite00]

That's why I specified a period. You are taking the whole of a career against perhaps the best part now. As I said, we'll see how long Favreau can surprise us.

Comparing Favreau to Spielberg is wrong, comparing him to Lucas in his prime is closer but still I don't believe it equates well, and comparing him to Nolan -- who has made a host of original material -- also seems far fetched.

To say something like the editor saved Star Wars for Lucas (and seemingly dismissing much of Lucas' other work in that era)...while saying and that Favreau is controlling all just tells me you really love Favreau. And I can't really debate that.

Favreau has a better carear than Lucas at this point. I mean when you look at the material. Favreau has some insanely good content over the last 30 years.

I always liked him, but the Mandalorian is what takes it up a notch to me.

Favreau doesnt get credit for both his range of movies to direct and write, but also his push to promote new technology and have it work with actors.

 

[a-dev]

What I was (and am) confused by is whether or not you believe post-ROTJ Luke should be shown dealing with living beings the way he did with the droids in Mando.

No, that'd be pretty horrific - a Vader-esque slaughter of hopelessly outmatched opponents. unless lightsaber is switched to baseball bat mode

But are you and Khev contending that a post-ROTJ Luke should not/would not kill, say, a new demonstrably evil Sith lord (who is of no relation to himself )

 

[Khev]

Watch Obi Wan vs Vader go savage on round 2

Doomcockers are going to erupt in cheers lol

I know right, lol. I mean you could take ZE_501's entire breakdown of the ST character arcs as he sees them for Han, Luke, and Leia and just apply them to OT Ben and Yoda. Except Han, Luke, and Leia actually cleaned up the mess of the past generation and helped *stop* the FO from fulling taking hold of the galaxy for 30 more years (or even forever potentially.) Yes all three died tragically and if you don't like bittersweet or sad endings for characters then okay yeah you can be mad at the ST for going that route. But *all three* died as heroes with each one playing a pivotal role in the final defeat of evil.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Yeah, Star Wars *is* other films shot for shot, in some cases.

You see that lot in film and while it can work wonders, it also makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

Kurosawa is my favorite director, and as you indirectly note, Lucas robs that man blindly. Lucas helped pay him back by producing some of his later work.

To be fair, everybody ripped off Kurosawa. Just look at the spaghetti westerns.

 

[Khev]

No, that'd be pretty horrific - a Vader-esque slaughter of hopelessly outmatched opponents. unless lightsaber is switched to baseball bat mode

But are you and Khev contending that a post-ROTJ Luke should not/would not kill, say, a new demonstrably evil Sith lord (who is of no relation to himself )

Speaking for myself I'm fine with seeing Luke tempted to kill because I think that would be an ongoing struggle for all Jedi, but succumbing to the temptation or even succumbing to the mere thought (as we saw in TLJ) should carry consequences IMO and not be something that he just does on a whim any time an opponent gets in his way.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]To say something like the editor saved Star Wars for Lucas (and seemingly dismissing much of Lucas' other work in that era)...

I guess it depends on how much sway Lucas had over the editor. As for the rest of his work, American Graffiti is all I can remember and I thought that film had a lot of the heart that I credit ANH/ESB with.

I think he had greatness and its time came and went. That's the way of things for some artists. That's why Spielberg stands out for me, because he just kept knocking it outta the park, he kept growing and I find it very difficult to compare him to anyone for that reason. I imagine there are foreign directors that may be comparable to him but I'm not familiar with their work.

 

[JAWS]

Why is everyone on Ducky when Jye is literally just as bad. O MUH ST wILL FINally BE acccepted cause BOyega is talking to people. It could be anything lol.
.

I would say the words from the actor who played the role might be a bit more believable then a guy who does youtube videos and makes claims from sources and then reminds us they are all rumors. I have not seen the comments Jye is talking about.. I did read that the actor is open to coming back.. Something some people said he would never do. Its all about the $$$$ baby.


Either way.. I believe nothing till its announced by Disney.


Popcorn planet said that Disney is looking at making a Luke series that takes place during the Mandalorian timeline... And the Grogu will return much later but he will return..

That is all rumor also... But he seems more level headed the Doomcock. Plus other entertainment sites seem to run with his scoops... So he might have some inside info.. He called out what's her face fro trying to say there was issues on Mandno and the main actor.


Ahhhhhh SW Rumors.. Nothing better to get SW fans going at each others throats.

 

[user 64404]

At the end of the day, I rather have Nolan and Favreau over Snyder and Paul W Anderson, if we are using your definition of artistic.

One question, whats your opinion on Paul Verhoeven or Luc Besson?

 

[hellgrammite00]

I guess it depends on how much sway Lucas had over the editor. As for the rest of his work, American Graffiti is all I can remember and I thought that film had a lot of the heart that I credit ANH/ESB with.

I think he had greatness and its time came and went. That's the way of things for some artists. That's why Spielberg stands out for me, because he just kept knocking it outta the park, he kept growing and I find it very difficult to compare him to anyone for that reason. I imagine there are foreign directors that may be comparable to him but I'm not familiar with their work.

I mean Lucas filmed a lot of material, but couldnt structure a coherent film. This is well documented, with Marcia helping him edit and hire editors. Lucas deserves some credit, but his creativity did not lend itself to making great films when he had too much control.

Lucas is a great story teller. When he lets other people direct, edit, screenplay...ect, it comes out great. He knew what a great scene was, but had a hard time fitting it into a full narrative.

Favreau has his direct presence in every episode of Mandalorian. There was a good interview earlier in the year about him helping (producing) other directors when making episodes.

 

[hellgrammite00]

One question, whats your opinion on Paul Verhoeven or Luc Besson?

I think Verhoeven is an ultraviolent genius. He could film something that on the surface seems one way, and it really has a double meaning.

 

[JAWS]

I guess it depends on how much sway Lucas had over the editor. As for the rest of his work, American Graffiti is all I can remember and I thought that film had a lot of the heart that I credit ANH/ESB with.

I think he had greatness and its time came and went. That's the way of things for some artists. That's why Spielberg stands out for me, because he just kept knocking it outta the park, he kept growing and I find it very difficult to compare him to anyone for that reason. I imagine there are foreign directors that may be comparable to him but I'm not familiar with their work.

From everything I have read and seen.. SW was saved by the help of 3 editors and even some of Lucas' closest friend like Brian DePalmer. Seem that the original Producer had a lot of say also.. GAry Kurtz was there for the two best.. SW and ESB and has been open about issues with ROTJ and the PT. He use to push back on George.. Something that he desperately needs.

Lucas still got the performances out of the actors for SW and I do enjoy American Graffiti (I know nothing about the making of that film)

 

[JAWS]

One question, whats your opinion on Paul Verhoeven or Luc Besson?

Robocop is an all time classic.. I still enjoy watching Basic Instinct.. Total Recall has not aged well for me. Not really a fan of the rest of his work.

Luc Besson is... Ok... I love the Professional.. Kind of ends there.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Lucas still got the performances out of the actors for SW and I do enjoy American Graffiti (I know nothing about the making of that film)

Thing is most of these directors had small budget creative hits when they were young. Nolan, Favreau, Lucas...ect.

Lucas happened to own something that turned into a Scientology 2.0 in some ways, and at a young age too. I mean I think part of the credit we give to Lucas is how big this turned into, and that can overvalue the creative and artistic credit for a whole career.

Shadows are shadows I guess.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I added a little bit to my last post addressing the PT Jedi as well.

Yep, I agree with your PT points. Another thing Lucas made pretty clear, even explicitly in interviews, is that the PT Jedi had lost their way in key respects. Thus the downfall of the Order and (I am inferring) the need for Luke to pave a new and different path that avoids those perversions of how to be a true Jedi.

I'm not sure if it was a problem in execution (either with the PT or perhaps with ROTJ), but I keep encountering more fan thoughts about the "true Luke Skywalker" and how he would be as a Jedi Master after the OT and I gotta wonder why I sense such a disconnect from what seemed clear enough to me. I just gotta throw my hands up and say screw it; I'll enjoy what I think is inline with his character evolution, and just let others want whatever they want.

No, that'd be pretty horrific - a Vader-esque slaughter of hopelessly outmatched opponents. unless lightsaber is switched to baseball bat mode

But are you and Khev contending that a post-ROTJ Luke should not/would not kill, say, a new demonstrably evil Sith lord (who is of no relation to himself )

I can't imagine a scenario where a Sith lord challenges a Jedi and can be contained without using lethal force. Luke still has every right in that scenario to use the Force (including use of the saber) in self-defense. You can't exactly "disarm" a Sith lord. Take away his saber, and he uses the Force to choke (or do any number of other things to harm and kill). A duel to the death is one where both combatants understand the terms.

Optimally, it would be avoided if at all possible. But a Sith lord is the extreme of all extremes. It would necessitate a last-resort scenario fairly easily, imo. A Sith is the natural enemy of the Jedi, and the type of threat that pretty much only a Jedi is capable of thwarting.

 

[ZE_501]

I know right, lol. I mean you could take ZE_501's entire breakdown of the ST character arcs as he sees them for Han, Luke, and Leia and just apply them to OT Ben and Yoda. Except Han, Luke, and Leia actually cleaned up the mess of the past generation and helped *stop* the FO from fulling taking hold of the galaxy for 30 more years (or even forever potentially.) Yes all three died tragically and if you don't like bittersweet or sad endings for characters then okay yeah you can be mad at the ST for going that route. But *all three* died as heroes with each one playing a pivotal role in the final defeat of evil.

We have no argument as to their end, Khev. Disney gave them 'heroic' deaths as they were cynically disposing of their characters to make way for Disney Wars.

But that breakdown shows miserable lives and their inability to prevent the deaths of billions, their friends, their families, or even the opportunity to enjoy victory.

Obi Wan and Yoda were mentors and plot devices in the OT, they weren't protagonists. Who cares if they died defeated? Somebody had to, along with all the Red Shirts.


My contentions have always been that I expect that character arc from George R. R. Martin, not Star Wars. That Disney ****ed it all up via a combination of greed, real-world constraints (old actors), lack of planning and extraordinarily poor writing. I even allow that the ST in this day and age was almost guaranteed to be a fool's errand, they were almost painted into a corner from the start.

Some fans tie themselves in knots to give them a pass, to keep enjoying more Star Wars. Some fans just accept it and roll with it. I see it as a load of crap.

Han, Luke and Leia cleaned up the mess of the past generation by Return of the Jedi. They won at great personal cost.

Then the Mouse wanted cash so they ****ed them. All of them.

 

[ZE_501]

Why is everyone on Ducky when Jye is literally just as bad.

Although I've never had a personal issue with Ducky, I think he escalates and gets personal in ways that Jye and Khev do not. I disagree with almost everything those lunatics say but I have no issue with how they communicate...

I also think Ducky misinterprets *context* for an *old boys club* and resents it.

Many of us have been geeking out for years here and have an idea of where the others are coming from, even if we think they're wrong all the time, so there's no escalation or edge to it.

I mean I *hate* Khev but I'd get drunk with him and talk Star Wars anytime.

*EDIT: Similarly, I *like* hearing Ducky's perspective even when I disagree with it. I just don't think he needs to go to war.

 

[a-dev]

We have no argument as to their end, Khev. Disney gave them 'heroic' deaths as they were cynically disposing of their characters to make way for Disney Wars.

But that breakdown shows miserable lives and their inability to prevent the deaths of billions, their friends, their families, or even the opportunity to enjoy victory.

Obi Wan and Yoda were mentors and plot devices in the OT, they weren't protagonists. Who cares if they died defeated? Somebody had to, along with all the Red Shirts.


My contentions have always been that I expect that character arc from George R. R. Martin, not Star Wars. That Disney ****ed it all up via a combination of greed, real-world constraints (old actors), lack of planning and extraordinarily poor writing. I even allow that the ST in this day and age was almost guaranteed to be a fool's errand, they were almost painted into a corner from the start.

Some fans tie themselves in knots to give them a pass, to keep enjoying more Star Wars. Some fans just accept it and roll with it. I see it as a load of crap.

Han, Luke and Leia cleaned up the mess of the past generation by Return of the Jedi. They won at great personal cost.

Then the Mouse wanted cash so they ****ed them. All of them.

I was compiling a response to that same post in another tab but you've just said it better than I was managing. Agreed with all.

Has anyone ever pointed out that George R.R Martin's initials sound an awful lot like the word Grim....that's the set-up of the Disney ST. As you say, some people liked that, a great many didn't.