The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[ZE_501]

And yet when they changed Fett you cried about it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I had brought up the issues with Boba Fett's portrayal but it hasn't been addressed as of yet. From what I can infer, they saw growth for Luke on-screen but didn't see it for Fett and expected him to be what they interpreted from ESB.

But then you're seeing the character after 5 years and a traumatic experience so you're seeing him after 5 years of growth and change. I'm interested to see if Jye or Khev will expand on why they see Boba Fett differently from Luke.

Calling someone a hypocrite right outta the gate isn't a good way to engage them. Maybe they have their reasons? I'd like to know.

I'll probably disagree but I still want to know the thought process behind it.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I didn't say that.

I said the creators didn't respect the legacy.

Fans are not responsible for that. As I said in an earlier post, there are many kinds of fans, some twist themselves in knots to give anything Star Wars a pass. YouTube is filled with them. Others roll with it and accept what the Canon has served. I'm neither of the former.

I don't let Lucas off the hook for what I see as his screw-ups either, they're just different screw-ups.

I wasn't trying to characterize your statement falsely. You wrote:

"what I see is a profound lack of respect for what made the OT great. The people in that writer's room weren't fans, no matter what anyone tells you."

I don't know who you think was in that writers room, but I assure you that Dave Filoni was part of it. If you're going to say that he isn't a fan, or doesn't respect the legacy, then that's off the mark by a broad margin. And I'm no fan of Filoni's creative ideas or direction.

I guess I just hate the gate-keeping aspect I've seen so much of since the ST. People deciding who is a "real fan" and who isn't. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize for misconstruing your statement.

 

[ZE_501]

The original SW is kind of a beautiful thing. You take a vision that is a melting pot of different influences, great special effects and editors who could make it all into a sensible thing. You lose one of those and we have a lesser movie. The movie by the end comes full circle. Characters are developed with solid arcs.

ESB is an even greater fluke. You take a story, and put it into the hands of guys not in love with Star Wars. But they know how to film and edit a movie. An unnecessary sequel that arguably exceeds its predecessor as a brilliant movie. It has no right to be a great movie, and it somehow pulls it off. An unplanned sequel that delivers.

ROTJ is....not really these things. It is a movie where the creativity and sharp filmmaking aspects start developing holes. It starts feeling a bit forced. But as a wrap up to 2 great movies we let thing slide.

Most everything afterwards Star Wars related starts getting far worse. It becomes about a product, and some aspect of the filmmaking suffers.

I've said this before...I worked in film in the past, and only just recently returned to film and television. It's a logistical and creative maelstrom.

Before I ever walked on to a set, I used to marvel at how bad movies could get made. Now, I marvel that anything good gets made, never mind greatness.

 

[TheDucky]

Although I've never had a personal issue with Ducky, I think he escalates and gets personal in ways that Jye and Khev do not. I disagree with almost everything those lunatics say but I have no issue with how they communicate...

I also think Ducky misinterprets *context* for an *old boys club* and resents it.

Many of us have been geeking out for years here and have an idea of where the others are coming from, even if we think they're wrong all the time, so there's no escalation or edge to it.

I mean I *hate* Khev but I'd get drunk with him and talk Star Wars anytime.

*EDIT: Similarly, I *like* hearing Ducky's perspective even when I disagree with it. I just don't think he needs to go to war.

I never personally insulted anyone until yesterday. I attack the argument, not them. Meanwhile I?ve put up with comments calling me dumb, stupid, delusional, moronic, a ****ing cancer, mocked non stop for daring to like a set of movies for months, little childish insults of you have no friend, nobody likes you here, you are poor, you have poor taste, your life is nothing, etc....

ah yes, but I get personal.... and now this will just be replied with ?durrr he has a victim complex durrrrr?

Look what jye said today and you wanna tell me this isn?t personal when i?ve been called doomcocker over and over again?

Don?t cry about the ST in the same sentence you worship JarJar as REAL SW go F yourself you dumb doomcock twit lol

WTF is this. And nobody bats an eye... but oh boy when Ducky says one reply....

Many of us have been geeking out for years here and have an idea of where the others are coming from, even if we think they're wrong all the time, so there's no escalation or edge to it.

...so like I said a good ole boys club.

I?m about done with this place. Only was here because of the pandemic anyways.

 

[TheDucky]

I had brought up the issues with Boba Fett's portrayal but it hasn't been addressed as of yet. From what I can infer, they saw growth for Luke on-screen but didn't see it for Fett and expected him to be what they interpreted from ESB.

But then you're seeing the character after 5 years and a traumatic experience so you're seeing him after 5 years of growth and change. I'm interested to see if Jye or Khev will expand on why they see Boba Fett differently from Luke.

Calling someone a hypocrite right outta the gate isn't a good way to engage them. Maybe they have their reasons? I'd like to know.

I'll probably disagree but I still want to know the thought process behind it.

Yeah, mocking me for liking the PT wasn’t a good way to engage with me at first either. Funny how I’m supposed to be respectful and give none in return.

 

[ZE_501]

I wasn't trying to characterize your statement falsely. You wrote:

"what I see is a profound lack of respect for what made the OT great. The people in that writer's room weren't fans, no matter what anyone tells you."

I don't know who you think was in that writers room, but I assure you that Dave Filoni was part of it. If you're going to say that he isn't a fan, or doesn't respect the legacy, then that's off the mark by a broad margin. And I'm no fan of Filoni's creative ideas or direction.

I guess I just hate the gate-keeping aspect I've seen so much of since the ST. People deciding who is a "real fan" and who isn't. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize for misconstruing your statement.

No offense taken, no apology necessary. It's sometimes hard to track intent.

I don't like most of Filoni's vision and call him a hack regularly, but would never argue he isn't a fan.

I don't know how much influence he had on those scripts, but I find it hard to believe he would have treated those characters the way they were, if left to his own devices. The man says he has a profound respect for Lucas and his vision. I find it difficult to reconcile that -- if true -- with what we got.

If I'm wrong, I have no choice but to recant and say instead that I profoundly disagree with their execution (literally and figuratively) of legacy characters.

The end result is the same, but I admit the statement was instinct and emotion rather than backed up with fact.

 

[ZE_501]

Yeah, mocking me for liking the PT wasn’t a good way to engage with me at first either. Funny how I’m supposed to be respectful and give none in return.

I'll be honest, I don't remember how hostilities commenced, if you were wronged or perhaps over-reacting, I don't know. But if I got hostile every time someone was snarky or dismissive to me online, I'd literally be getting in fights and being banned on a weekly basis.

If someone wants to get in my face in real life, I can assess the situation and decide whether or not to respond in-kind. Online? Not worth it most of the time. I'd rather engage with the idea than the person.

Especially when I'm literally just killing time on geeking out, stuck indoors during a pandemic.

 

[TheDucky]

Why is everyone on Ducky when Jye is literally just as bad.

just... as... bad???

 

[ajp4mgs]

No offense taken, no apology necessary. It's sometimes hard to track intent.

I don't like most of Filoni's vision and call him a hack regularly, but would never argue he isn't a fan.

I don't know how much influence he had on those scripts, but I find it hard to believe he would have treated those characters the way they were, if left to his own devices. The man says he has a profound respect for Lucas and his vision. I find it difficult to reconcile that -- if true -- with what we got.

If I'm wrong, I have no choice but to recant and say instead that I profoundly disagree with their execution (literally and figuratively) of legacy characters.

The end result is the same, but I admit the statement was instinct and emotion rather than backed up with fact.

I agree that Filoni would not have scripted the ST to play out the way it did. I think first Arndt, then Kasden and JJ, got the ball rolling.

But what I can tell you as a published fact is that Dave was part of the Story Group trying to devise thematic and plot directions for the trilogy as it was unfolding. How much influence he had, or whether he felt he shouldn't intervene, is outside the scope of my knowledge. No clue.

What I do know is that Lucas started forming ideas for sequels around 2012. Someday we may find out just what extent he was going to put the OT characters through the "fall of heroes" scenario. Until then, all speculation.

 

[ZE_501]

I never personally insulted anyone until yesterday. I attack the argument, not them.

I'll take your word for it, I haven't been paying close attention.

Meanwhile I?ve put up with comments calling me dumb, stupid, delusional, moronic, a ****ing cancer, mocked non stop for daring to like a set of movies for months, little childish insults of you have no friend, nobody likes you here, you are poor, you have poor taste, your life is nothing, etc....

If that's actually the case, I wouldn't stick around and waste my time. I don't know what actually happened so I can't remark on it.

Look what jye said today and you wanna tell me this isn?t personal when i?ve been called doomcocker over and over again?

Pretty sure people call Khev that too. But whatever ... if you think people aren't worth communicating with, don't. You can even place people you think are idiots on 'ignore'.

...so like I said a good ole boys club.[...]

Well, no...context. There are people here who disagree on everything and have somehow avoided actually fighting because they have a feel for each other's communication style and even if someone's taken a jab or two, they don't get riled up.

Again, I haven't been following your entire experience here, so I can't say what happened there but it looks like it didn't happen overnight.

 

[ZE_501]

I agree that Filoni would not have scripted the ST to play out the way it did. I think first Arndt, then Kasden and JJ, got the ball rolling.

But what I can tell you as a published fact is that Dave was part of the Story Group trying to devise thematic and plot directions for the trilogy as it was unfolding. How much influence he had, or whether he felt he shouldn't intervene, is outside the scope of my knowledge. No clue.

What I do know is that Lucas started forming ideas for sequels around 2012. Someday we may find out just what extent he was going to put the OT characters through the "fall of heroes" scenario. Until then, all speculation.

Geek forums are built on speculation.

 

[jye4ever]

And yet when they changed Fett you cried about it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

But Fett is a villain Ducky completely different scenario.

I like my villains to remain villains not have morality conflicts.

Sure every once in awhile a villain who thinks he is a hero is fun but ultimately I want Fett to remain a bad guy straight thru.

Heroes who fail tend to be more entertaining.

So yes Fett getting his ass kicked by that annoying nobody Mando was eye rolling cringe lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

Favreau has a better carear than Lucas at this point. I mean when you look at the material. Favreau has some insanely good content over the last 30 years.

I always liked him, but the Mandalorian is what takes it up a notch to me.

Favreau doesnt get credit for both his range of movies to direct and write, but also his push to promote new technology and have it work with actors.

Look, I'm a big Favreau fan but I'm being pushed into a corner seemingly not defending him. He's very talented. And I wish there were more like him. That's why I hold him in such high esteem over JJ.

But let's face it, he is managing IPs. He didn't create Iron Man or Star Wars.

But Lucas did create one of those. And Indy. So as far as creative, Lucas' SW + Indy beat Favreau managing IM + SW.

And I'm not poo-pooing managing. Star Wars desperately needs it. Once it lost Kurtz, and Lucas changed his world-vision, SW became lost at sea... and its seems only Favreau has been able to put it back on its original intended course.

I think he had greatness and its time came and went. That's the way of things for some artists. That's why Spielberg stands out for me, because he just kept knocking it outta the park, he kept growing and I find it very difficult to compare him to anyone for that reason.

Agreed. There are other incredibly talented directors, like Fincher, who continue to amaze as they age and just get better. Spielberg is over that hump I think (since 1997) but I always hope he'll be truly inspired one more time.

 

[xipotec]

While watching the "World Between Worlds" episode of Rebels nothing about it seemed to indicate anything about a SW equivalent to a multiverse. When Ezra opened the portal and pulled Ahsoka through it simply explained how she was saved from Vader and the exploding temple. He did not all of a sudden create a second timeline where Ahsoka lived in one and died in the other. When she went back through the portal she just re-entered the same and singular continuity that everything existed in.

So even the notion of a canon ST with an alternate timeline and a new ST has no precedent whatsoever, at least from what I've seen.

You are incorrect sir. The New Holiday LEGO clearly shows time travel is possible. And they could alter time so Rey and Young Luke could fight the Emperor with just about every other hero imaginable.

In a seriousness, they will never multiverse SW. if they did, I would jump off then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hellgrammite00]

Look, I'm a big Favreau fan but I'm being pushed into a corner seemingly not defending him. He's very talented. And I wish there were more like him. That's why I hold him in such high esteem over JJ.

But let's face it, he is managing IPs. He didn't create Iron Man or Star Wars.

But Lucas did create one of those. And Indy. So as far as creative, Lucas' SW + Indy beat Favreau managing IM + SW.

As a director and screenwriter, Lucas is pretty mediocre. He doesn't have the Quentin Tarantino element of being able to write something entertaining and translating that to the screen. You can't say the editor is the one taking credit to making Tarintino movies great because there basically is no editing in those movies LOL.

I think bringing up Indiana Jones is a good point. And I think Indiana Jones shows what you can do when you have Lucas forming a story, and other people to write and direct.

Like Quentin he knows what has worked in past movies, and knows what makes a cool scene on paper. He had a vision for Indiana Jones. But the more control in the actual filming process you give him, the more the movie suffers.

At the end of the day though, Lucas isn't really much of a director. I mean he has directed Star Wars and that is about it. Everything else he is generally an executive producer. He won't be remembered in history as a director as an even important trait.

That is the point I want to get across. As a director, the guy has only worked on one franchise. So as a director I think its fair to give more credit to Favreau, who has done far more movies and a larger variety of movies to great success.

As a pure force of creativity in Hollywood, Lucas needs to get a lot of credit. I am not trying to take that away. From that perspective there are only a handful of people that can be in that club.

 

[Knightstalker]

But Fett is a villain Ducky completely different scenario.

I like my villains to remain villains not have morality conflicts.

Sure every once in awhile a villain who thinks he is a hero is fun but ultimately I want Fett to remain a bad guy straight thru.

Heroes who fail tend to be more entertaining.

So yes Fett getting his ass kicked by that annoying nobody Mando was eye rolling cringe lol

Pretty much agree on every point here. I prefer Fett as a villain, not the Mando with a code of honour which he never really was. We'll leave that stuff to Din Djarin.
The question now is, is Fett going to start his own crime empire, or is he on Tatooine to "clean up the town". I'm expecting the return of Cobb Vanth to the BoBF too.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Pretty much agree on every point here. I prefer Fett as a villain, not the Mando with a code of honour which he never really was. We'll leave that stuff to Din Djarin.
The question now is, is Fett going to start his own crime empire, or is he on Tatooine to "clean up the town". I'm expecting the return of Cobb Vanth to the BoBF too.

Everybody wearing Mandalorian outfits on the show now are bleeding together. Everybody takes their helmets off. Everybody has a similar code of honor. Everybody kind of selfish but also kind of altruistic. Boba Fett feels very similar to everybody else with no real unique traits. Def. one of the few failings of the show.

As I pointed to earlier, having Boba Fett being hired by Mando would have been a much more cooler situation, and more creative. Let these bounty hunters work for ... a bounty. It would have only taken re-writing like 30 seconds of dialogue.

 

[Khev]

Similar to Jye, when I think of Star Wars I'm thinking first and foremost of ANH/ESB.

Same.

Fair enough, I won't be changing your mind. But refer to my post about what happened in the writer's room. I think they lacked respect and it shows.

Well like you I only care about the end result and not who was behind it. Since I do see each and every film in the ST as being of extremely high quality from a filmmaking standpoint (acting, dialogue, visuals, editing, cinematography, score, etc.) and I do like how the OT Legacy characters were handled (for the most part, yes I could do without Leia Poppins and a few other things) I don't really care *what* kind of people were in that writers room. I like what I like and for me these films delivered.

I know that some people (not necessarily you) like inventing their little conspiracy theories that back the narratives that they want to imagine and will claim that LFL or KK just wanted kill all the OT heroes. But from my vantage point it's pretty clear that Ford himself wanted his character to die and Carrie's character *had* to be written out of the Saga since she herself passed. So you had Luke who was written to die as part of the story by the filmmakers themselves while the other two leads had to bow out for reasons that the writers and directors couldn't control.

Rather than get endlessly bent out of shape and spend my days contorting reality to fit my narrative I prefer to instead say "okay so how good a job did the writers do with the cards they were dealt?" And for the most part my answer tends to be "pretty damn good." No we didn't get Han, Luke, and Leia in the same scene again. But they did appear in the same movie. And we did get Han and Leia together and then Luke and Leia together. Plus Luke and R2, Luke and 3PO, Luke and Yoda, and Chewie and so forth.

I'm not gonna just arbitrarily write-off the entire trilogy because of one missed opportunity of reuniting the main three. Did the OT show Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme together? No, each trilogy has its core heroes who operate together with those same heroes serving a different purpose in other trilogies. If I want to watch the big three together well I've got the OT for that.

At the end of the day I think that the actual scriptwriters (Abrams, Kasdan, RJ, and Terrio) greatly overruled whatever stupid agenda crap the "story group" might have been about and I do believe that all four would qualify as "true fans" of SW.

 

[The Buffinator]

Pretty much agree on every point here. I prefer Fett as a villain, not the Mando with a code of honour which he never really was. We'll leave that stuff to Din Djarin.
The question now is, is Fett going to start his own crime empire, or is he on Tatooine to "clean up the town". I'm expecting the return of Cobb Vanth to the BoBF too.

I'd love that but I'm curious how it would work. CV is the sheriff of a decidedly "one-horse town" (Mos Pelgo) in the middle of nowhere with limited resources, so not exactly a prime target to be exploited by a crime syndicate. I suppose he could decide to move on from there now that there's a truce with the Sand People.

 

[Khev]

But then you're seeing the character after 5 years and a traumatic experience so you're seeing him after 5 years of growth and change. I'm interested to see if Jye or Khev will expand on why they see Boba Fett differently from Luke.

I just want Fett to be:

1. A jerk
2. A villain
3. A badass

However they want to operate within the confines of those three characteristics above I'll probably be okay with. As others have said the Saga doesn't need any more opportunistic scoundrels who suddenly have an attack of conscience and develop hearts of gold. We've got Han for that. And Lando, and Din Djarin (so we REALLY don't need a *second* Mandalorian "best in the galaxy" bounty hunter who develops morals for crying out loud.)

The Saga needs more Jabbas, Bobas, and Grievouses, especially ones that can hang around for more than one movie and serve as recurring threats. So that's why I'm opposed to Boba Fett evolving away from that and into something else (especially something else that is already over-represented in SW.)