The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[hellgrammite00]

Wait, so Rey defeated the emperor all by herself? I guess I imagined that whole Force Dyad thing with Ben Solo at the end of TROS...

Ray wasn't strong enough. But having two lightsabers was strong enough. Lightsabers double your force powers.

 

[jye4ever]

Wait, so Rey defeated the emperor all by herself? I guess I imagined that whole Force Dyad thing with Ben Solo at the end of TROS...

There they go willfully forgetting major parts of the movie just so they can say Mary Sue all over again.

 

[The Buffinator]

Ray wasn't strong enough. But having two lightsabers was strong enough. Lightsabers double your force powers.

But with the Force Dyad,

 

[hellgrammite00]

To be fair, the force wasn't used to defeat Palpatine, who sucked the Dyad energy into himself, reviving him to epic levels. It was the power of two lightsabers, which can repel unlimited Sith energy, back at its user.

Rey got the courage from all the voice she heard to use two light sabers.

 

[The Buffinator]

To be fair, the force wasn't used to defeat Palpatine, who sucked the Dyad energy into himself, reviving him to epic levels. It was the power of two lightsabers, which can repel unlimited Sith energy, back at its user.

Rey got the courage from all the voice she heard to use two light sabers.

That's a fair point but I don't think he drained them of the Force completely, otherwise Ben couldn't have revived Rey at the end.

BTW, wasn't Mace Windu doing the same "lightsaber repelling unlimited Sith energy back at its user" thing back in ROTS before Anakin interfered? So I guess Rey wasn't that much of a Mary Sue if she needed TWO lightsabers vs, Mace's one.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]
BTW, wasn't Mace Windu doing the same "lightsaber repelling unlimited Sith energy back at its user" thing back in ROTS before Anakin interfered? So I guess Rey wasn't that much of a Mary Sue if she needed TWO lightsabers vs, Mace's one.

There's a Jye joke in here somewhere but I feel dirty now.

 

[hellgrammite00]

That's a fair point but I don't think he drained them of the Force completely, otherwise Ben couldn't have revived Rey at the end.

BTW, wasn't Mace Windu doing the same "lightsaber repelling unlimited Sith energy back at its user" thing back in ROTS before Anakin interfered? So I guess Rey wasn't that much of a Mary Sue if she needed TWO lightsabers vs, Mace's one.

He basically did drain them, which explains why the force heal killed Ben. Rey was able to force heal fatal injuries with no side effects, showing force healing to heal a giant monster or major injuries carries no penalty. But Ben tried to save Ray with his force power drained, and all he had left was his life force. I mean Luke set the standard in ST showing that if you need to juice up your force powers, you can sacrifice your own life force as a resource.

Unless you want to make the argument that Ben is just weaker than Rey, because she is a Mary Sue

Rey was able to defeat the emperor with no force powers effectively.

 

[ZE_501]

When he refused to turn to the Dark Side and brought out the good in his father. In doing so he became a true Jedi and caused the destruction of the Emperor.

From a certain point of view LOLOLOL ... the Emperor failed to turn Luke and that is *a* defeat of sorts, but Vader killed him. Luke was totally incapable and even Vader had to surprise him and died for it. As Luke's delicate bits were frying he immediately regretted his trash talk.

"I've flown some ships but never left the planet." --Rey, The Force Awakens

Don't remember that. But I feel that's a bit of a reach for her insane piloting skills. Luke killing innocent womp rats for fun in a canyon at least set-up his DS kill shot. But you know what? Murdering stormtroopers and dog-fighting? Also Mary Sue style.

And you're right she did perform several maneuvers that Han never did, like repeatedly crashing the Falcon into the *ground.* How many times did Luke's X-Wing fly through towers or scrape the surface of the Death Star? Not once.

He also didn't fly through a super tight maze on his first go.

In the Mary Sue Olympics I'd say he out Mary Sue'd him.

 

[The Buffinator]

There's a Jye joke in here somewhere but I feel dirty now.

I knew something like this was coming the moment I posted that.

He basically did drain them, which explains why the force heal killed Ben. Rey was able to force heal fatal injuries with no side effects. But Ben tried to save Ray with his force power drained, and all he had left was his life force.

Unless you want to make the argument that Ben is just weaker than Rey, because she is a Mary Sue

Well no, and since she never had the Force drained from her prior to healing anyone it's not really a valid comparison.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Well no, and since she never had the Force drained from her prior to healing anyone it's not really a valid comparison.

Then we can all agree that Rey without force powers and two light sabers is enough to defeat dyad juiced Palps.

 

[The Buffinator]

Then we can all agree that Rey without force powers and two light sabers is enough to defeat dyad juiced Palps.

Sure, why not? It's not like Mace Windu had to use the Force to hold his lightsaber while reflecting "unlimited Sith energy" back at Palpatine, so as the PT established that precedent we should all agree that Rey can too.

 

[Khev]

Emperor arrogance viewed Luke being naive as a weakness when in reality it was his strength.

Yeah sure Luke was about to get hurt real bad but the emperor failed to see past his own arrogance that the punishment he was about to unleash on Luke to teach him a lesson on the power hierarchy was going to create an awakening on Vader which would continue to reverberate for decades later because a reborn emperor failed to learn his lesson that arrogance that comes from power over others gives you a false sense of being indestructible and will eventually lead to your downfall.

A key ingredient in defeating Palpatine if you aren't the Chosen One seems to be asking for help.

Mace arrogantly refused Anakin's assistance and lost.

Yoda arrogantly refused to let Obi-Wan assist him and lost.

Ben Solo tried to stand alone against Palps and lost.

Interestingly enough all three fell great distances as a result too.

But Luke asked for the help of the Chosen One and prevailed. Rey asked for the help of the Chosen One (and a whole mess of other Jedi) and prevailed.

I believe that only Anakin was capable of defeating Palps by himself.

TROS Palps was channeling the power of all the Sith but Rey was able to defeat him by channeling not her own power but rather the power of all the Jedi, which actually made her exponentially stronger than Palps.

Because the self-serving "only two" rule became his greatest weakness in that moment. If you consider two Sith at a time for a thousand generations (25,000 years) that's 50,000 Sith. Whereas Rey was channeling the power of *millions* of Jedi (a mere 200 Jedi per generation times 1,000 generations is 5 million right there.) Palps had no chance and was toast. A nice overlap with "but there are more of us Poe, there are more of us..." taking place above.

It was never Rey's power or the power of her lightsabers if you listen to the dialogue.

 

[Khev]

From a certain point of view LOLOLOL ... the Emperor failed to turn Luke and that is *a* defeat of sorts, but Vader killed him. Luke was totally incapable and even Vader had to surprise him and died for it. As Luke's delicate bits were frying he immediately regretted his trash talk.

Yep but Luke and Rey were down for the count until they pleaded for help.

Don't remember that.

She says it to Finn while they're celebrating their victory over the TIE's right before the gas leak occurs.

Luke killing innocent womp rats for fun in a canyon at least set-up his DS kill shot. But you know what? Murdering stormtroopers and dog-fighting? Also Mary Sue style.

Luke shooting womp rats explained his confidence in their mission but it in no way had any bearing on him making the shot since when the time came he relied on the Force and not his womp rat skills. But surviving a barrage of fire from *Darth Vader* when career Top Gun pilots failed? The very first time he even *sat* in an X-Wing let alone piloted *any* vehicle in space? At least Rey was still flying the Falcon in her native environment through debris fields and tunnels she knew like the back of her hand.

I'm not saying that either gets a full pass on the "Mary Sue hero card" or whatever you want to call it but um it's a freaking space fantasy adventure film we're supposed to allow for the main heroes of the story to succeed in areas where most would fail.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Sure, why not? It's not like Mace Windu had to use the Force to hold his lightsaber while reflecting "unlimited Sith energy" back at Palpatine, so as the PT established that precedent we should all agree that Rey can too.

Palps against Windu had only baby sith powers. A single light saber is enough to hold back his lightning. His lightning could really only hit one person. By the time he fights Rey, he has increased his power 10x with the dyad juiceup, and his lightning is now able to pinpoint snipe an entire fleet of enemy ships.

So it makes sense that if his power is the greatest for any Sith ever, that you would need 2x lightsabers to repel it.

It really is the best writing of our generation.

The only thing they didn't do was have Rey deflect a deathstar blast with her lightsabers...yet.

 

[jye4ever]

A key ingredient in defeating Palpatine if you aren't the Chosen One seems to be asking for help.

Mace arrogantly refused Anakin's assistance and lost.

Yoda arrogantly refused to let Obi-Wan assist him and lost.

Ben Solo tried to stand alone against Palps and lost.

Interestingly enough all three fell great distances as a result too.

But Luke asked for the help of the Chosen One and prevailed. Rey asked for the help of the Chosen One (and a whole mess of other Jedi) and prevailed.

I believe that only Anakin was capable of defeating Palps by himself.

TROS Palps was channeling the power of all the Sith but Rey was able to defeat him by channeling not her own power but rather the power of all the Jedi, which actually made her exponentially stronger than Palps.

Because the self-serving "only two" rule became his greatest weakness in that moment. If you consider two Sith at a time for a thousand generations (25,000 years) that's 50,000 Sith. Whereas Rey was channeling the power of *millions* of Jedi (a mere 200 Jedi per generation times 1,000 generations is 5 million right there.) Palps had no chance and was toast. A nice overlap with "but there are more of us Poe, there are more of us..." taking place above.

It was never Rey's power or the power of her lightsabers if you listen to the dialogue.

Truly freaking epic post dude.

This is why I am a proud card carrying member of team Khev ehhh make that team Khev-ajp

2 of the Ssmartest SW cats here.

Yep but Luke and Rey were down for the count until they pleaded for help.



She says it to Finn while they're celebrating their victory over the TIE's right before the gas leak occurs.



Luke shooting womp rats explained his confidence in their mission but it in no way had any bearing on him making the shot since when the time came he relied on the Force and not his womp rat skills. But surviving a barrage of fire from *Darth Vader* when career Top Gun pilots failed? The very first time he even *sat* in an X-Wing let alone piloted *any* vehicle in space? At least Rey was still flying the Falcon in her native environment through debris fields and tunnels she knew like the back of her hand.

I'm not saying that either gets a full pass on the "Mary Sue hero card" or whatever you want to call it but um it's a freaking space fantasy adventure film we're supposed to allow for the main heroes of the story to succeed in areas where most would fail.

That is why you fai.....KICK SO MUCH SW ARSE!

Oh btw I rewatched EG lastnight thinking the 3rd act was not going to hold up and totally disappoint me JAWS style BUT NOPE it totally held up and still kicked ass hell it actually improved some!

 

[Khev]

And glad to hear that EG finale still holds up.

One of the greatest theatrical experiences of my adult life for sure.

 

[a-dev]

IW and EG totally hold up for me.

 

[hellgrammite00]

IW and EG totally hold up for me.

IW is up there with ESB has a action/blockbuster sequel that actually was a brilliant and tight movie I can rewatch over and over. Yes it is a Marvel movie, but I think its a cinematic gold statue that I hold next to ESB purely as a movie.

EG....is ROTJ to me. Parts I find amazing and other parts I kind of check my watch at. Not a bad film, but IW is just a tight and well oiled machine that keeps me drawn in.

ROTJ is like oh we saved Han! Lets....put him and his girlfriend in a jungle running around with Carebears while the interesting plot happens elsewhere...

 

[jye4ever]

IW and EG totally hold up for me and now that Khev opened my eyes up to the ST being no less offensive than Alien 3 extended cut which I adore knowing very well everyone else hates it because of what it did to the heroic victories from Aliens the ST have also now gained my new found respect and admiration especially if I want to remain consistent with my cinematic values. One day Khev will help me finally comprehend why Raiders is better than TLC.

 

[jye4ever]

IW is up there with ESB has a action/blockbuster sequel that actually was a brilliant and tight movie I can rewatch over and over.

EG....is ROTJ to me. Parts I find amazing and other parts I kind of check my watch at. Not a bad film, but IW is just a tight and well oiled machine that keeps me drawn in.

I can roll with that but Cap 3rd act alone is like all of ROTJ 3rd act so freaking awesome lol