Gina backs SWT guy.
The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)
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Sassafras
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To be fair, suppose it's not that different than what I feel about Mandalorian. They had a good actress playing her. There were some interesting possibilities for the character. PR build up. Then she didn't do much. Tho guess that's true about a lot of TROS.
Which I just finished rewatching but turned off at the Kylo keels over scene. IMO just not a good film. Really wish Mandalorian had stayed far away from the ST, even if to Favreau and Filoni it's trolling fans.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
It's obvious PH specifically targeted SWT guy due to his popular online commentary trashing PH, Story Group and ST.
PH accused him of having fake recreated tears for Luke for the camera as a way of supporting his narrative.
Why PH is even getting offended and fighting with this youtuber in public or private is beyond me.
PH needs to be fired plain and simple.
SWT guy is not being toxic.
I think SWT guy campaign is wrong on old man Luke but if he loves warrior Luke 24/7 then that is his business his feelings and his business model calls for click bait stuff as a means of revenue so he is going to cry on camera plain and simple.
PH needs to go away along with KK.
But guess what SWT guy your lord Lucas was the one who put KK IN CHARGE how about them apples.
Then again people who willfully ignore the ending of TLJ to fit their agenda are also the ones who willfully ignore that Lucas put KK in charge of his precious SW property!
Wait, are people ignoring the end of TLJ or is it more that they are so resentful of what position Luke was in at the start of TLJ (as initially dictated by TFA) that they just have no ***ks to give that Luke eventually came around?
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jye4ever
Broke and happy
So Vader is allowed to go from good to bad back to good.
But Luke is not.
I have no ***** to give because Vader ended good he should have remained evil until his death just like the emperor. Wut!
YET YET SWT guy worships ghost hero HC Anakin.
Hypocrite much.
If Luke has to remain a perfect hero 24/7 then Vader should remain a perfect villain 24/7. But wait what is the emperor for...oh. What is Yoda for..oh.
So SW should just be:
Luke a hero 24/7
Yoda a hero 24/7
ObiWan a hero 24/7
Leia a hero 24/7
Han a hero 24/7
Chewie a hero 24/7
Padme a hero 24/7
Rey a hero 24/7
Finn a hero 24/7
Poe a hero 24/7
Sio Bibble a hero 24/7
Zzz Zzz
Like god forbid they take one....ONE of the primary characters and try to give him some actual nuance and mix things up a bit in that large group of similar dynamics.
Lando goes from good to bad back to good and it worked fine for his character.
Luke was subjected to a ton of stress and it opened his eyes to what the core problems were and like a real person he questioned his own principles and foundation but eventually dealt with the conflict with the help from master Yoda.
I mean why even have the Yoda character there to interact and instruct Luke if Luke is just going to be PERFECT 24/7!
SWT guy wants to see Luke cut down some droids every single time he is on screen for the next 75 years how exciting.
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ironwez20
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You can change a character and or be compelling. The problem is the writing abd direction sucked . Which you don?t seem to understand. You can have a defeated Luke but it has to make sense abd be told well. Not . O my nephew listened to to much nu metal abd burned my school down abd now I hide away drinking tit milk . It sucks.
Also people like characters to have hope and rise above . It?s the reason why they fell in love with these characters. Luke skywalker is a character who lost everything and still rose above the odds despite everything being messed up around him .
Stop with this whole you hate the ST cause it?s different. No . It?s told poorly . People had faith before and now they hate it.
I?m sorry to tell you but people don?t like when there heroes are pushed aside for the new more boring protagonist. Lots of people look up to Luke abd see him as a hero who prevails even during dark times. Not some hobo loser.
But muh OT characters! And MUH sequel!
Also people like characters to have hope and rise above . It?s the reason why they fell in love with these characters. Luke skywalker is a character who lost everything and still rose above the odds despite everything being messed up around him .
Stop with this whole you hate the ST cause it?s different. No . It?s told poorly . People had faith before and now they hate it.
I?m sorry to tell you but people don?t like when there heroes are pushed aside for the new more boring protagonist. Lots of people look up to Luke abd see him as a hero who prevails even during dark times. Not some hobo loser.
But muh OT characters! And MUH sequel!
jye4ever
Broke and happy
If you think ST Luke was bad writing then I don't even know what to say about PT Anakin...PT everything really lol
Ok so you agree characters can be changed as long as it has quality writing.
Ok done that is called TLJ Luke.
Ok so Luke can be changed as long as he has hope and rises above.
Ok done that is called TLJ Luke.
Ok so you agree characters can be changed as long as it has quality writing.
Ok done that is called TLJ Luke.
Ok so Luke can be changed as long as he has hope and rises above.
Ok done that is called TLJ Luke.
Jye it's because we've already been on the hero's journey with Luke in the OT. We've known the character in its current form since 1983 and the EU books and other source material that following did not really stray far from it either. Yes Luke had further adversities to deal with but his character did not fundamentally change.
Jake in TLJ was so very very different to the Luke as we last experienced his character. The story asks us to to take a giant narrative leap to get us from ROTJ Luke to TLJ Jake but then does not bother to really give us / show us any of that journey. For many it is almost impossible to reconcile the two characters as one and the same. All we are shown is that Luke is now an unreliable narrator, essentially lying to Rey about his failure with Ben. Then once the truth is 'revealed' about Luke and his momentary attempt to kill his nephew in his sleep, it just seems so ludicrously out of character that it is hard to accept. I know the AJPs and Khevs of this board have waged a good war on this very point for the last few years and come up with all sorts of compelling reasons why this shouldn't be the case but the fact remains that for many it is still too jarring and that is a failure in the film-making and scripting. More was needed to allow the rest of us to land at the same place as you and the knights of TLJ.
I am very happy for Luke to face adversity in the ST and question whether he has made the correct decisions himself since ROTJ, it is my opinion that this would make for part of a compelling story - however, TLJ failed to do that. Luke didn't have to be omnipotent and godlike but he needed to sync more with the Luke I've always known. If he did not then I needed to understand why he would change so dramatically and TLJ failed to convince me of this.
I like the force projection redemption, it's very cool and a very Jedi move. But at this point in the film I had already checked out and it didn't matter, nothing could save the movie now. Also Luke's x-wing was functional as shown in the TROS so he should have just gone in person, at least that way he might survive and he could still have done the pacifist Jedi master thing.
Anyways, it is my belief that it would have made more sense for Leia to exile herself rather than Luke. She has spent her whole life trying to fight through government / legitimate means to bring about change and when that failed, open rebellion. Now the new republic is a failure and this was something she helped install and shape. Frankly it might even be as bad if not worse than the empire for regular citizens of the new republic (as suggested by Mando) due to the lawlessness that has broken out. In addition, it appears to suffer from corruption, is overstretched and is completely hamstrung by the many layers of bureaucracy that it needs to service before it can do anything functional. Seems a lot like the old republic to me. Heck maybe Palpatine (and the romantic field musings of AOTC Ani) had some merit to the thinking that a galaxy this size needs a central leader, one person with one vision and perhaps that person should have been Leia. To make matters worse her only child has ostracised himself from the family and is now a terrorist fighting against the very thing she created, maybe he is not even wrong to fight it. I put it to you that it would have been more compelling if Leia not Luke had had an identity crisis in the ST, questioning everything before her and failing to act and even try and stop her son. After all, she never really changed much in the OT (except to appreciate a scoundrel like Han) so why not have her very foundation of beliefs now shaken to the core. Have Han leave her because he can't understand her paralysis and self-doubt, instead leading the resistance to try and fight his wayward son head on. Then leaving scope for Leia to come through in the end to 'save the day' after Han has died at the hands of Kylo (let that be her turning point or even have Luke die to him as well).
Jake in TLJ was so very very different to the Luke as we last experienced his character. The story asks us to to take a giant narrative leap to get us from ROTJ Luke to TLJ Jake but then does not bother to really give us / show us any of that journey. For many it is almost impossible to reconcile the two characters as one and the same. All we are shown is that Luke is now an unreliable narrator, essentially lying to Rey about his failure with Ben. Then once the truth is 'revealed' about Luke and his momentary attempt to kill his nephew in his sleep, it just seems so ludicrously out of character that it is hard to accept. I know the AJPs and Khevs of this board have waged a good war on this very point for the last few years and come up with all sorts of compelling reasons why this shouldn't be the case but the fact remains that for many it is still too jarring and that is a failure in the film-making and scripting. More was needed to allow the rest of us to land at the same place as you and the knights of TLJ.
I am very happy for Luke to face adversity in the ST and question whether he has made the correct decisions himself since ROTJ, it is my opinion that this would make for part of a compelling story - however, TLJ failed to do that. Luke didn't have to be omnipotent and godlike but he needed to sync more with the Luke I've always known. If he did not then I needed to understand why he would change so dramatically and TLJ failed to convince me of this.
I like the force projection redemption, it's very cool and a very Jedi move. But at this point in the film I had already checked out and it didn't matter, nothing could save the movie now. Also Luke's x-wing was functional as shown in the TROS so he should have just gone in person, at least that way he might survive and he could still have done the pacifist Jedi master thing.
Anyways, it is my belief that it would have made more sense for Leia to exile herself rather than Luke. She has spent her whole life trying to fight through government / legitimate means to bring about change and when that failed, open rebellion. Now the new republic is a failure and this was something she helped install and shape. Frankly it might even be as bad if not worse than the empire for regular citizens of the new republic (as suggested by Mando) due to the lawlessness that has broken out. In addition, it appears to suffer from corruption, is overstretched and is completely hamstrung by the many layers of bureaucracy that it needs to service before it can do anything functional. Seems a lot like the old republic to me. Heck maybe Palpatine (and the romantic field musings of AOTC Ani) had some merit to the thinking that a galaxy this size needs a central leader, one person with one vision and perhaps that person should have been Leia. To make matters worse her only child has ostracised himself from the family and is now a terrorist fighting against the very thing she created, maybe he is not even wrong to fight it. I put it to you that it would have been more compelling if Leia not Luke had had an identity crisis in the ST, questioning everything before her and failing to act and even try and stop her son. After all, she never really changed much in the OT (except to appreciate a scoundrel like Han) so why not have her very foundation of beliefs now shaken to the core. Have Han leave her because he can't understand her paralysis and self-doubt, instead leading the resistance to try and fight his wayward son head on. Then leaving scope for Leia to come through in the end to 'save the day' after Han has died at the hands of Kylo (let that be her turning point or even have Luke die to him as well).
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ironwez20
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See there you go again. Didn?t even mention the PT. See it?s always on your mind. You seem really mad at it . Like you think about it 24/7.
It really hurts doesn?t it that something you hate is more popular than the sequels you love so much. It really stings huh? Probably keeps you up at night. That?s why you keep bringing it up?
Hurts that even tho with all it?s bad dialogue and cgi it still sells toys and people asked for Hayden back. Ouch . Your small opinion buried by millions of fans who hate the ST. It must really sting when you see a new anakin toy announced over rey or how people can?t wait to see him back in obiwan.
But hey you got your little lego special to watch . So there?s something.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
@ Bravo...
Well TROS explains that Leia did have her fallout she stopped her jedi training which had its own set of consequences.
But back to Luke.
I see a larger narrative picture at play.
Had Luke remained connected to the force as a perfectly heroic dogmatic Jedi master in essence being the entire PT Jedi order ALL BY HIMSELF and perpetuated that Jedi-Sith conflict more than likely Rey would've eventually gone to the darkside and given her powers to Palpatine. The heroic Jedi masters were continuously feeding that Jedi Sith war with more and more conflict.
As it was it required Luke to leave his living self to become force ghost Luke and the rest of the primary force ghost users to even defeat the sith thru a living Rey.
Well TROS explains that Leia did have her fallout she stopped her jedi training which had its own set of consequences.
But back to Luke.
I see a larger narrative picture at play.
Had Luke remained connected to the force as a perfectly heroic dogmatic Jedi master in essence being the entire PT Jedi order ALL BY HIMSELF and perpetuated that Jedi-Sith conflict more than likely Rey would've eventually gone to the darkside and given her powers to Palpatine. The heroic Jedi masters were continuously feeding that Jedi Sith war with more and more conflict.
As it was it required Luke to leave his living self to become force ghost Luke and the rest of the primary force ghost users to even defeat the sith thru a living Rey.
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Or maybe you're oversimplifying other people's expectations to try to make those expectations seem stupid when in fact you guys probably would have ate up what everyone else wanted just the same. Even Khev admitted that what we got is not what he would have written. Fair enough if you want to rationalize what we now have after-the-fact and find a way to accept it but lets not pretend you wouldn't have rejoiced in what the Doomcockers were looking for had it instead gone their way.
And would 'their way' necessarily have entailed Luke being a perfect hero 24/7? No. But maybe the magnitude of failure and the horrific consequences of that failure as depicted in the ST - hardly compensated for by his actions on Crait - was going a bit too far with the hero deconstruction.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Or maybe you're oversimplifying other people's expectations to try to make those expectations seem stupid when in fact you guys probably would have ate up what everyone else wanted just the same. Even Khev admitted that what we got is not what he would have written. Fair enough if you want to rationalize what we now have after-the-fact and find a way to accept it but lets not pretend you wouldn't have rejoiced in what the Doomcockers were looking for had it instead gone their way.
And would 'their way' necessarily have entailed Luke being a perfect hero 24/7? No. But maybe the magnitude of failure and the horrific consequences of that failure as depicted in the ST - hardly compensated for by his actions on Crait - was going a bit too far with the hero deconstruction.
Not just on Crait but TROS as well he was in the 3rd movie you know or did you just not bother with it lol
I did eat up Luke cutting thru some droids and guess what it wouldn't had been thrilling had we seen him do that over and over and over again in the ST.
But I guess SWT guy didn't think of that.
SWT guy should be thanking Jake Skywalker for making Mando Luke thrilling because had we got ST trilogy full of Luke swinging his heroic lightsaber and then again in Mando...well then...Zzzz Zzzz.
Hell TLJ real Luke already made cgi Luke boring in Mando for Khev.
There are different ways to show heroism.
How about this maybe Mando cgi Luke IS the real JAKE SKYWALKER based on his encounter with the emperor.
Yet i'm not labeling him that because of some agenda I have to push.
I'm just rolling with because I love Luke when well written which he was in the ST and it was fun seeing him cut down some droids to save baby yoda species which was personal for him obviously.
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jye4ever
Broke and happy
I'm to the ST like Grace is with WB lol
Oh yeah.........ok, upon consideration I'm making no adjustment to my argument.
You just wait until Khev wakes up he is going to be very grumpy when he sees what you have been up to lol
You know Lucas is to blame for making the crappy PT instead of the crappy ST I know you know that.
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You just wait until Khev wakes up he is going to be very grumpy when he sees what you have been up to lol
Haha I am beginning to feel for you Jye. At the moment you are like the desperate resistance rebels on Crait sending out an SOS and so far no-one has turned up to back you up. I'm sure Khev and AJP will be right along shortly like the one two punch of Tarkin on the Deathstar and Vader in his Star Destroyer jumping into the battle of Scarif to ruin the rebel victory lap.
Until then I'm afraid that you will have to put up with A-dev going full T1 police station assault on your certain points of view.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
That Leia scene was shoe-horned into TROS to try and explain away her ability to fly like Mary Poppins in TLJ and because they needed a living jedi to 'train' Rey. It worked just like a tiny band aid applied to ponda baba's arm stump.
Luke was barely in the ST at all. He only featured in TLJ and then one scene (with no lines) in TFA and then in the TROS for one scene as a ghost and another throw away 'you go gal' to Rey when she because MegaZord Jedi.
Also Theory dude would have preferred an acceptable version of Luke in the ST over Mando any day of the week and so would I.
Sequels bad
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