The Official "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" movie thread *SPOILERS*

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Yeah, I understand that (and believe me, I'm much more forgiving than some of the book thumpers - I used to debate endlessly on Valaquenta.com in defense of the movies as a lover of both mediums) but, some of the changes still bother me to this day.

I left the theater feeling physically sick when I saw The Two Towers. The rape of Faramir can never be forgiven.

Some changes still bother me as well. I hate the sequence of Frodo sending Sam back during ROTK for example.

While I didn't like that about Faramir I understood it. You cannot for the movie going audience build up having the ring being all powerful and have one person say I could give a rats ass less about it. That kills the "power" the item is supposed to have. Now, I do think they corrected it with the EE a bit so that it doesn't bother me much.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Some changes still bother me as well. I hate the sequence of Frodo sending Sam back during ROTK for example.

While I didn't like that about Faramir I understood it. You cannot for the movie going audience build up having the ring being all powerful and have one person say I could give a rats ass less about it. That kills the "power" the item is supposed to have. Now, I do think they corrected it with the EE a bit so that it doesn't bother me much.

Yeah, I know that argument from the DVD extras.

Part of the problem for me is that Faramir is my favorite character in the book. It was also Tolkien's. I was pained to see him diminished. I do agree about the EE being better. It's the reason I think it's the most vital EE of the three.


I do have another defense of the decision to make Faramir weaker: They gave the refusal of the ring to Aragorn in FOTR. Remember the scene at the end of the movie when Aragorn catches up to Frodo right before Frodo heads off on his own? Aragorn has Frodo to himself just like Boromir did and he closes Frodo's hand around the ring and lets him go. That doesn't happen in the book. So just like much of the dialogue was moved around, they moved this important moment to earlier in the story and gave it to a different character. A character that the audience was more invested in. I am basically at peace with that now, but it really did make me sick when Faramir takes Frodo to Osgiliath!


I agree about the moment that Frodo sends Sam away. I'm pretty sure I found a way to justify it at some point (like I did with Faramir) but it still feels wrong.


There are many other things that bother me about the movies, but I'll just mention 2 more, and they both come from the EE ROTK:

1) The Paths of the Dead, was turned into a freaking amusement park. The Theatrical edition was bad enough, but the EE was just retarded with the avalanche of sculls.

2) Aragorn should not have beheaded the Mouth of Sauron. Not at all kingly. And not appropriate for a parlay.


That's enough ranting for now.


The moral of the story is, Maglor wont be reading the Hobbit again until after the movies so he's less distracted by changes.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I do have another defense of the decision to make Faramir weaker: They gave the refusal of the ring to Aragorn in FOTR. Remember the scene at the end of the movie when Aragorn catches up to Frodo right before Frodo heads off on his own? Aragorn has Frodo to himself just like Boromir did and he closes Frodo's hand around the ring and lets him go. That doesn't happen in the book. So just like much of the dialogue was moved around, they moved this important moment to earlier in the story and gave it to a different character. A character that the audience was more invested in. I am basically at peace with that now, but it really did make me sick when Faramir takes Frodo to Osgiliath!

Well, I would say with that scene I look at it more of Aragorn saying the ring is so powerful I know it will cause me to make the same mistakes Isildur made. Thus making it even harder for the audience to go wait the guy who would be king couldn't resist it but this guy can.

Though, I admit I enjoy the telling in the book a bit more but as I said its all enhanced by the movie and the movie by the book. I'm an odd duck I know.

I agree about the moment that Frodo sends Sam away. I'm pretty sure I found a way to justify it at some point (like I did with Faramir) but it still feels wrong.

Agreed it just feels wrong. I accepted it but yeah don't like it.

There are many other things that bother me about the movies, but I'll just mention 2 more, and they both come from the EE ROTK:

1) The Paths of the Dead, was turned into a freaking amusement park. The Theatrical edition was bad enough, but the EE was just retarded with the avalanche of sculls.

2) Aragorn should not have beheaded the Mouth of Sauron. Not at all kingly. And not appropriate for a parlay.

I like The Paths Of The Dead sequence honestly. Got no problem really with that.

I understand the second point but at the same time I think I would probably have done the same thing if someone was talking ____ about my friend.

That's enough ranting for now.


The moral of the story is, Maglor wont be reading the Hobbit again until after the movies so he's less distracted by changes.

Rant away man! Its all good.

Thats a long time to not read them again. I'll probably read it again later this year.

 

[rushmore223]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

For me, 17 years had passed between reading the books and seeing the movie, so I was not as aware of some of the changes when I saw them, so it did not bother me that much. I knew things felt amiss at certain times, like when Frodo sent Sam away.

Some things I was glad to see omitted though, like Tom Bombadil.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Some things I was glad to see omitted though, like Tom Bombadil.

Same here. Its just not a sequence that resonated with me much at all.

 

[Valarauko]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I saw the trilogy before reading the books, so I was spared the jolts that other, more learned folks, received. By the time I read the books, the films were so engrained in my head that it was the reverse - I leaned toward PJ's vision.

The thing that actually bothers me more are things done by PJ&Co that are not logical. One of the worst is in TTT, at Osgiliath, Sam & Frodo tussle and fall down the stairs. At the bottom, Frodo whips out Sting and places the point at Sam's throat. At that stage of the story, Frodo & Sam were still prisoners - their weapons would most defintely have been confiscated, so what is Frodo doing with his sword?

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Well, I would say with that scene I look at it more of Aragorn saying the ring is so powerful I know it will cause me to make the same mistakes Isildur made. Thus making it even harder for the audience to go wait the guy who would be king couldn't resist it but this guy can.

That was probably what they were going for in the context of FOTR, but for me, it functions as a way to deal with Faramir's apostasy from Tolkien's intent.

I can't enjoy LOTR if part of the message is that no man is pure. No man can resist power. It's too nihilistic. Yes I know they didn't want to diminish the power of the ring, but I didn't want them to crush the triumph of the human spirit. And honestly, the ring does not feel diminished in the book as much as it just feels put in perspective.

I just love the notion that we all have the ability to do what is right even when temptation is furiously strong. That message would have been nearly neutered if Aragorn hadn't 'shown his quality' at Amon Hen.

I like The Paths Of The Dead sequence honestly. Got no problem really with that.

When I read The Paths of the Dead I feel real fear, and as the dead fulfill there oath, I feel joy and wonder. When I watch The Paths of the Dead, I laugh. Definitely NOT what Tolkien had in mind.

I understand the second point but at the same time I think I would probably have done the same thing if someone was talking ____ about my friend.

Perhaps I would to, but Aragorn wouldn't. Otherwise Tolkien would have wrote that.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

That was probably what they were going for in the context of FOTR, but for me, it functions as a way to deal with Faramir's apostasy from Tolkien's intent.

I can't enjoy LOTR if part of the message is that no man is pure. No man can resist power. It's too nihilistic. Yes I know they didn't want to diminish the power of the ring, but I didn't want them to crush the triumph of the human spirit. And honestly, the ring does not feel diminished in the book as much as it just feels put in perspective.

I just love the notion that we all have the ability to do what is right even when temptation is furiously strong. That message would have been nearly neutered if Aragorn hadn't 'shown his quality' at Amon Hen.

I understand what you're saying. The book is quite magical for all that it has. Though, I guess for me LOTR in both movie form and book are magical even if there are some changes that I dont like. Basically, it doesn't fee any less like LOTR because the overall theme is still there for me.

When I read The Paths of the Dead I feel real fear, and as the dead fulfill there oath, I feel joy and wonder. When I watch The Paths of the Dead, I laugh. Definitely NOT what Tolkien had in mind.

I agree with you on the feeling from the book. Its a great sequence for sure. Though, I really enjoy the movie sequence as a whole but there are a couple moments with Gimli that annoy me.

Perhaps I would to, but Aragorn wouldn't. Otherwise Tolkien would have wrote that.

Thats true.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I understand what you're saying. The book is quite magical for all that it has. Though, I guess for me LOTR in both movie form and book are magical even if there are some changes that I dont like. Basically, it doesn't fee any less like LOTR because the overall theme is still there for me.

And this is why I defend the movie in the militant book-thumping crowd.

They got much more right than they got wrong. Over-all it does feel like LOTR.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

And this is why I defend the movie in the militant book-thumping crowd.

They got much more right than they got wrong. Over-all it does feel like LOTR.

Innded good sir! Indeed!

 

[furystorm]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Hey, I, for one, would not mind the talking animals of The Hobbit. After all, there are freaking talking trees in LOTR! What is harder for the general public to digest?

 

[bill59]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Hey, I, for one, would not mind the talking animals of The Hobbit. After all, there are freaking talking trees in LOTR! What is harder for the general public to digest?

Treebeard says: "I am no tree!!!!!!!!"

Sorry furystorm, I couldn't resist


Bill

 

[Agent23]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Do we know if Howard Shore is coming back yet or not?

 

[FrodoEyes]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Do we know if Howard Shore is coming back yet or not?

Oh yes! He's a definate. Been working on it for a while actually.

 

[The Ringer]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Oh yes! He's a definate. Been working on it for a while actually.

Yep, while I hope he visits some of the older shire themes I am ecstatic to see what he brings to the hobbit table. Securing him was def in my tops for returning to middle earth. The LOTR music never gets old and I am to this day still very grateful that we got every single second of music on cd's. Howard Shore never disappoints.

 

[Wanderer]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Howard Shore made some cracking music for the trilogy which easily stands along side the best that John Williams has done however, there is a part of me that is sad James Horner never got to tackle it. His work on Star Trek II &III and also Krull was some of my most favourite music ever. If he had brought that emotion and heart to the films they'd have been even better imo Rachel Portman is another stunning composer

 

[Agent23]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Oh yes! He's a definate. Been working on it for a while actually.

Excellent, thank-you.

 

[Valarauko]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I've been wondering how Jackson/Shore will approach this film. Shore created some incredible themes/leitmotifs to represent certain peoples and cultures (Hobbit/Shire, Elves, etc.). I wonder if those will be incorporated into The Hobbit?

 

[Radagaster]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I'm not sure what new cultures they'll be introoducing other than the people of Laketown . . . Maybe Legolas' people?

 

[Valarauko]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

This should allow Shore to delve more into the Dwarves, expand on LOTR. I can also see him delivering something totally new to represent the "Elves of the Wood", as opposed to the theme of Lothlorien.

As a musician myself and a huge fan of Shore's LOTR work, I'm getting as excited about the score as I am about the rest!