The Official "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" movie thread *SPOILERS*

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

I always thought that Tolkien didn't really hit his stride in LOTR until a bit after the whole Old Forest sequence. Tom and Old Man Willow feels more like The Hobbit than LOTR.

In the past I would debate about the nature of Tom B., but now I just kind of think of him as a mistake.

Well, up to that point it was a bit more like The Hobbit and took a more serious tone. So I tend to agree with you on that point. His character has started to improve for me over the last few years reading the books.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

The Tom B. section of the books has never been one of my favourites either....and I think the addition of this section in the movie would have been disasterous....though I would have loved to have seen the barrow-wights

The part that would have killed it I think is him turning down the Ring. Same with changing part of Faramir in TTT. You already have Galadriel and Aragorn turn it down if everyone does it then it kills how powerful you're trying to make the ring for a movie audience.

 

[FrodoEyes]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

The GG bust was based on that Weta card.

They also did Goldberry:

https://www.tuckborough.net/images/goldberry.jpg

Erkenbrand:

https://www.tuckborough.net/images/erkenbrand.jpg

Fatty Bolger:

https://lh6.ggpht.com/_ksOYoZXY7fY/TF7Hv00MR4I/AAAAAAAAAH8/l9NucI3trTM/FredegarBolger2_card.jpg

Ghan-Buri-Ghan:

https://lotrtcgdb.com/images/LOTR00056.jpg

Anarion:

https://lotrtcgdb.com/images/LOTR00058.jpg

And Glorfindel:

https://bowjamesbow.ca/images/glorfindel.jpg

 

[FrodoEyes]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

The Tom B. section of the books has never been one of my favourites either....and I think the addition of this section in the movie would have been disasterous....though I would have loved to have seen the barrow-wights

You'll be able to see Wights in HBO's upcoming, fantastic, future legendary, based on the books by George R.R. Martin, the American Tolkien, TV series Game Of Thrones

Tolkien admitted he didn't know where he was going until he got to Bree and decided who 'Trotter' was. He was going to be some long-lost relative of Frodo i think, until Tolkien decided to make him Strider, and hey presto, a masterpiece was made.
And yes, i have been reading The History of Middle-Earth books
Bombadil was based on a toy he had for his children.
I like Tom

 

[woodsy]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

You'll be able to see Wights in HBO's upcoming, fantastic, future legendary, based on the books by George R.R. Martin, the American Tolkien, TV series Game Of Thrones

Tolkien admitted he didn't know where he was going until he got to Bree and decided who 'Trotter' was. He was going to be some long-lost relative of Frodo i think, until Tolkien decided to make him Strider, and hey presto, a masterpiece was made.
And yes, i have been reading The History of Middle-Earth books
Bombadil was based on a toy he had for his children.
I like Tom

Excellent news FE, thanks! I have seen the commercials for this mini-series and I'm looking forward to watching it....and series star Sean Bean.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

That series is gonna be off the charts good I think. It really looks like everything about it will be worth tuning into each week.

 

[woodsy]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

The part that would have killed it I think is him turning down the Ring. Same with changing part of Faramir in TTT. You already have Galadriel and Aragorn turn it down if everyone does it then it kills how powerful you're trying to make the ring for a movie audience.

That wasn't quite how I was looking at it, but I do see your point. And let's not forget that Gandalf also turned it down when offered the ring from Frodo. Come to think of it, did anyone actually want the ring outside of Sauron, Gollum, and Boromir?

I was referring more to the pacing of the film. That section of the book really bogged down the story and no doubt it would have done the same thing to the movie. Besides, the Tom B. character didn't really make alot of sense to me nor do I think he 'fit' into the story at all....maybe it's just me.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

That wasn't quite how I was looking at it, but I do see your point. And let's not forget that Gandalf also turned it down when offered the ring from Frodo. Come to think of it, did anyone actually want the ring outside of Sauron, Gollum, and Boromir?

I was referring more to the pacing of the film. That section of the book really bogged down the story and no doubt it would have done the same thing to the movie. Besides, the Tom B. character didn't really make alot of sense to me nor do I think he 'fit' into the story at all....maybe it's just me.

Right Gandalf turned it down as well. Most of them knowing if they took it they would be in goners but yeah just those three really show they truly want the ring. Heck, I'd add a fourth and say Denethor wants is pretty bad as well.

You're right pacing wise it would play havoc but I've always thought about it from a impact of people watching it would be messed up. The character fits in the book for were he is at near Hobbiton but after that he would have bee a bit out of place.

 

[woodsy]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Right Gandalf turned it down as well. Most of them knowing if they took it they would be in goners but yeah just those three really show they truly want the ring. Heck, I'd add a fourth and say Denethor wants is pretty bad as well.

You're right pacing wise it would play havoc but I've always thought about it from a impact of people watching it would be messed up. The character fits in the book for were he is at near Hobbiton but after that he would have bee a bit out of place.

You're right, I forgot about Denethor. Though he only wanted the ring to keep it safe.....

And you're right, I never read the books until after seeing FOTR, and if I'd seen Tom. B in the movie I wouldn't have had a clue as to what was going on, or what his purpose was.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Yup, keep it safe.

I'm the same had skimmed FOTR and stuff when I was in HS but didn't start reading them myself until after I saw FOTR.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Andy Serkis to serve as second unit director on The Hobbit.

 

[CAhobbit]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Come to think of it, did anyone actually want the ring outside of Sauron, Gollum, and Boromir?

I was referring more to the pacing of the film. That section of the book really bogged down the story and no doubt it would have done the same thing to the movie. Besides, the Tom B. character didn't really make alot of sense to me nor do I think he 'fit' into the story at all....maybe it's just me.

One could make the case that the watcher in the water was after the ring as well, ha!

As for Tom and Goldberry...them being edited out the film seemed like a wise decision to me. In the context of the book though he and she and that whole plot just works. Plus, it leads to the ongoing question as to who Tom is. Plus, he was one of the few that the ring had no control/power over, which leads to more questions.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Agreed. Within the context of the book they work and make sense but within a movie not as much. I fear it would have made many lose interest and change how amazingly well liked these films are.

 

[woodsy]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

One could make the case that the watcher in the water was after the ring as well, ha!

You are correct, I'd forgotten about him.

As for Tom and Goldberry...them being edited out the film seemed like a wise decision to me. In the context of the book though he and she and that whole plot just works. Plus, it leads to the ongoing question as to who Tom is. Plus, he was one of the few that the ring had no control/power over, which leads to more questions.

Exactly, such as why the one person in middle-earth who single-handedly had the power to deliver the one ring to Mt. Doom and destroy it refused to do so, even if not doing so potentially meant the destruction of middle-earth.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Ghan-Buri-Ghan:

https://lotrtcgdb.com/images/LOTR00056.jpg

That Ghan-Buri-Ghan is awesome!

Come to think of it, did anyone actually want the ring outside of Sauron, Gollum, and Boromir?

Right Gandalf turned it down as well. Most of them knowing if they took it they would be in goners but yeah just those three really show they truly want the ring. Heck, I'd add a fourth and say Denethor wants is pretty bad as well.

You're right, I forgot about Denethor...

One could make the case that the watcher in the water was after the ring as well, ha!

Ummm...

As for Tom and Goldberry...them being edited out the film seemed like a wise decision to me. In the context of the book though he and she and that whole plot just works. Plus, it leads to the ongoing question as to who Tom is. Plus, he was one of the few that the ring had no control/power over, which leads to more questions.

The problem is that none of those questions are answerable as the countless debates about it I have had show.

I don't believe Tolkien understood Tom B. himself.

The only other character in Tolkien's mythology that can't be understood or explained is Ungoliant. I see her as Darkness personified, and I see Tom B. as Time personified. They are ideas. They don't fit into the peoples (terrestrial or otherwise) of Tolkien's world.

By extension Goldberry is a bit of an enigma as well. She could be Nature personified I guess.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Oh I believe Tolkien understood him. He just made him almost ent like in how he cares about things of the world Tom was also just a character that treasured those things so much that items like a gold ring meant little to him.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Oh I believe Tolkien understood him.

My point is: There is just no way to fit Tom into any of the peoples and races of Eä or the Timeless Halls. I can't fit him in there and Tolkien couldn't fit him in there.

He's not Vala, he's not Maia, and no he's not Ilúvatar. He's not categorizable. He functions as a literary device, but he is a thorn in the side of the Legendarium. When I read Tolkien, I believe it. It truly becomes a secondary universe. The only time I have to 'suspend disbelief' is when I read Tom Bombadil. And I guess that's the point. Tolkien said this about him:

"And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." - Letters, #144

He just made him almost ent like in how he cares about things of the world Tom was also just a character that treasured those things so much that items like a gold ring meant little to him.

I kind of agree and I kind of disagree.

Here's what Tolkien said later in the same letter:

"Tom Bombadil is not an important person — to the narrative. I suppose he has some importance as a 'comment.' I mean, I do not really write like that: he is just an invention (who first appeared in The Oxford Magazine about 1933), and he represents something that I feel important, though I would not be prepared to analyse the feeling precisely. I would not, however, have left him in, if he did not have some kind of function. I might put it this way. The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were, taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the questions of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless. It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war… the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron." - Letters, #144


I read that as a comment about the perils of passivism.


It never occurred to me until now, but that comment is made in the film through the Ents. The Ents' deciding at the Entmoot to not go to Isengard always bugged me, but I now have a way to reconcile it to the book. Merry gives the speech about how they are part of this world and need to do their part. Similar things could have been said to Tom B.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Tom was one of a kind that way.

Right some of those bolded parts are what I'm saying about Tom.

Treebeard specifically but the ents recieved several things said and some traits of Tom as PJ's way of putting it in the movies.

 

[Red]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

That wasn't quite how I was looking at it, but I do see your point. And let's not forget that Gandalf also turned it down when offered the ring from Frodo. Come to think of it, did anyone actually want the ring outside of Sauron, Gollum, and Boromir?

Don't forget poor little Deagol,god rest his soul.

 

[carbo-fation]

Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread

Unfortunately, Tolkien never got around to explaining what he intended Tom to be. Now we'll never know for sure what type of being he was. All we can do is speculate; something people have been doing for decades with no right or wrong answer.