THE THIRD ACT: What a third in the Batman Begins, Dark Knight series might be...

[Les Walker]

Ok, someone had to do it....

I have my gut feelings as to what a third film in this series needs to be.

First, I will say something that many seem to miss, and might make me unpopular, but despite Heath Ledger's MAJOR performance, and Aaron Eckhardt's and Gary Oldman's, and even Bale's, etc., etc....the story must go on!
I believe that both Batman Begins and Dark Knight, thematically and together, only serve to set of one hell of a true Batman movie. They are both, BUILDUP!
Yes, not an end in themselves, but a buildup to a crescendo.

I felt this in Batman Begins, and again, in Dark Knight. That forward momentum, and development in the character of BATMAN, whose tales these really are, not the villains, but BATMAN/BRUCE WAYNE, If this is a stew, it is a BATMAN STEW, and it is seasoned with Jokers and Ra's Al Ghuls and Scarecrows and Two-Face and so many more...and here is my idea of where this is all going....


Now that Gordon is finally Commissioner...
Now that Bruce Wayne knows without a doubt that he IS Batman and why...
Now that Gotham is in major chaos....
Now that so many villains are unleashed still, or out there, waiting...
Now that The Batman is a hunted and loathed hero...

Next movie, this all has to get somewhat resolved!
Now, I cannot possibly predict all the story arcs that could come, but I can say I see certain things that dramatically need to happen to resolve it in my own mind.

I think it will be a free for all. I think there could easily be many villains with the state Gotham is in. Returning could be:
Joker,
Two-Face,
Scarecrow (again!), and new could be
Penguin, a ruthless and short crime boss in the Nolan universe...
Catwoman, a sexy and dangerous thief (prostitute like in Year One?) that only Batman ever runs across in his night vigils, that could be both a villain and a support, while he is on the lam from the cops...
Add to this could be
Harley Quinn, the messed up Arkham doctor that frees Joker and remains at his side...
Also, could now be added in...
Talia, daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, in Gotham to find Bruce Wayne, and be his primary romantic interest, making Catwoman an interesting foil in this dynamic.

Also, the return of Ra's Al Ghul.
It is his story that he sort of can't die, or in the Nolan universe, at least didn't in BB. And he might show up late, as the third act surprise villain behind all this chaos. After all, did he not vow to "Destroy Gotham" and could the Joker have been introduced into the mix by him??? Possibly??? Although I think the Joker is a wild card in more ways than one...but could Ra's not be behind some of this as well???

And, I think it will be a big finale, where Gotham clamors for Batman's "legal" return as hero, due to the fall of order and the rise of so many crooks. AND, It might be wild and ironic if it were The Joker that saved him after all this. Because these crooks are gonna want Batman dead, and Joker will not.

And it will all end with Batman Triumphant. Hero, Batsignal back in the sky, the works! Big finale!


And someone like Johnny Depp might could take on Heath's Joker mantle...maybe....it is possible for someone else to play him you know. Maybe not as well, or differently, but possible...

All this is just food for thought.

That's just some of my ideas. I could be wrong. Might be. But, why not try to guess. Be nice to see in three years if I was close anywhere.

Anyone else got any ideas? Be fun to share them at any rate.
Sky's the limit.

(But I do think Ra's is gonna show up again...)

 

[Agent0028]

Eh, I'm not too sure about bringing the Joker back only because I don't think anyone can compare to Ledger (not just because of how good he is, but I think being dead has a little bit to do with it). And having a constant comparison of the two actors may be a bit much. Although Johnny Depp as Joker is an intriguing idea...

I too feel that Dark Knight was setting up for things to come in the third movie, and my thoughts run along similar to yours. But talk about pressure, it's gonna have to be good because I fear if it falls a little short it'll join the ranks of Spider-Man 3, POTC: At World's End, and Indy KOTCS in that they just couldn't stand up to the hype and expectations built up for them.

 

[bwayne]

Yeah, I think there would be some serious backlash against recasting Joker. I mean they replaced Katie Holmes because she didn't want to come back, not because she's dead. As for characters, I thought they might do with Penguin like he has been handled in the comics lately. Make him the new "crime boss" of Gotham to take over for the crime families. Maybe Catwoman as a potential love interest for a depress and wounded Batman.

 

[The Mike]

I think it'll be Black Mask for the major villain to tie back into the Mob which is a large part of these series and has been the "main villain" really. I think we'll see a couple of Bat cameos at least planned as there were a few planned for TDK that didn't make the final draft of the script. I don't see The Joker coming back Nolan seems very much in wanting to treat Ledger's portrayal and final and I'm sure that he won't write him in at least nothing more than a cameo.

 

[UTtoyfan]

They at least have a theme for the next movie. That's a start! And those are some great ideas Les!!

https://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/07/21/exclusive-david-goyer-says-he-knows-the-theme-for-batman-3/

 

[Rugby1970]

Talia makes the most sense. The connection to Ra's makes her more valuable than Catwoman.

She really deserves a shot in the movies. Such a pivotal character in the comics books...

I think the right actress can really make something out of it... hopefully someone new and unexpected.

Spoiler

Very Curious to see how Gordon handles the cover-up at the end of DK. That's a lot of pressure. And Talia has a chance to be what Rachael never could be. She can love Batman AND Bruce.

 

[The Mike]

I agree that Talia is a great character to include but since Nolan has made it plenty aware that this is his last shot with Batman, I see him going to Catwoman over her.

 

[kl241]

Johnny Depp = ???????????????

 

[kl241]

Angelina Jolie = meow

 

[wofford29]

I'm part of the camp that believes Two-Face is dead, but if he's not...

The only way I'd want to see him come back would play out like this.

Have Two-Face still alive but literally on his death bed, life support, the whole nine. Essentially he'd be under protection and just being treated to make his death more humane. I'd then have someone like The Riddler as the villian who gets a hold of Two-Faces body and uses it as the bribe to Gordon and Batman to play his little games and riddles. I'd then like to see Batman faced with a Final riddle that pits him against the Riddler that would force him to kill him (Think the ending of Se7en) I'd then like to see Two-Face muster up the strength to get off his death bed and kill the Riddler so that Batman doesn't break his rule, and Two-Face redeems himself, then he can die.

 

[The Mike]

Mark my words. The Joker will NOT be recasted, Two Face will make some sort of appearance, they'll be another Bat Villain introduced.

 

[devilof76]

I agree that Talia is a great character to include but since Nolan has made it plenty aware that this is his last shot with Batman, I see him going to Catwoman over her.

Definitely. He's said that he doesn't like her, but I think to leave her out of this (or to relegate her to second tier status) would be a big mistake. She has so much to offer.

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

All I know they really need to treat ALL of the Batman enemies like the gems they are, so I would hope that Scarecrows weak appearances build up to one major scarefest and that the 'crow gets his lime-light due he deserves instead of being a throw-a-way wussy cameo for two movies.

 

[creecher]

That's a very ambitious tale you tell Les, and I do think you are on the money with the momentum. I got that vibe as well.

BB had a fair bit going on. Parents dead, lost youth, ascending the mountains and training, return to previous existence, the mob, gathering of allies, determining his foes, gadgets galore, love interest, battle from within and without.

DK was more centred around his enemy, while remaining frantic.

I would hope the third instalment centre on Batman and his world, without too many distractions by looking at each and every new villain he might encounter. Plenty of time for a fourth instalment to incorporate mayhem into the madness. I think The Joker can be played by another actor as easily as changing who Batman is, or his costume. It would be a minor role while Penguin takes over and the Riddler makes his presence felt through a variety of riddles, whilst never having to show his face in this installment. No love interest this time round, as this one ought to be about Batman being The Batman, with a cameo by Catwoman to prep for B4.

 

[The Mike]

I don't see the Scarecrow really in the next one. The cameo in this one was a waste. If there is a cameo from TDK it'll be Two-Face, other than that I see this being self contained completely. The last act of most 3 part plays is "redemption" I have a feeling this will go that route. Look for someone like Dent to play out his Justice flips still having to do with Gordon or someone like Black Mask whose alter ego has a legitimate problem with Bruce Wayne and would be looking for his own redemption. The play on that will be the key to figuring out the villain. Redemption for Batman but also other characters looking for that as well.

 

[Entropy]

Recasting Joker or bringing Ra's or Scarecrow back would be a major blunder IMO and I think Nolan is smarter than that. Talia, Black Mask, etc are not 'A' list villains and would only appeal to the comic crowd I'm afraid, so going in that direction would also be a mistake.

Obviously Batman must redeem himself as a hero again in the eyes of the city by the end of the third film. That is the major arc that must be resolved. Now how best to do that and what villains would best serve that story is the question.

I can see Riddler or Penguin working, Catwoman seems like a better, fresher direction to go. With her you get the Selina Kyle/Bruce interaction, replacing Rachel as the love interest, which I think is needed to some extent, you also get the dark mirror of Batman angle. Unfortunately, Catwoman is not a large enough villain to be a huge threat to all of Gotham. Penguin would be nice as he reflects the corruption that Wayne the businessman is prone to. But they will never do a re-do of Batman Returns with Penguin and Catwoman together again. Maybe Hugo Strange? Certainly not the really out there villains like ManBat, ClayFace, Killer Croc, Mad Hatter or even Mr. Freeze.

The only option that seems completely viable to me is the return of Two Face. He's established, and can be a huge threat to all of Gotham. Sure they covered a lot with his story already, they'd need for him to harp on about something other than Rachel this time, but I think they could come up with some interesting stuff if he became the new head of Gotham's mafia.

Two Face lived and attempts at healing him are being made in Arkham. This way we can get a nice shadowy cameo of the Joker in his cell, face not shown, Heath laughing or saying a line or two that was cut from TDK when Two Face breaks out on his own accord or is broken out by the new villain - Penguin or Riddler. Penguin would be nice to team up with Harvey as he tries to corrupt Gotham through legitimate business dealings, undermining and acting as a foil to Bruce Wayne as Two Face works with him to corrupt Gotham from the shadows and criminal world. Harvey dons a split suit and soon assumes control of the now fragmented criminal underworld, seeking revenge on Batman, Gordon and all of Gotham - could he flip the coin for the fate of the entire city?? At the end, Batman now with the aid of the thief Catwoman perhaps, helps Harvey regains control of his personalities, then Harvey sacrifices himself killing the new villain, Penguin or Riddler, before their plans to destroy Gotham are realized. This way you get the love story/Batman meets his match angle with Catwoman, the duality angle with Penguin/Wayne as well as Catwoman/Batman, and the redemption of both Harvey and Batman, re-establishing both as heroes in the city's mind.

 

[man_vs_machine]

I'm hoping to see either Bane or Killer Croc as an enforcer for either The penguin or the riddler while they take over the crime world now that just about all the mob bosses are gone now. It could be cool to get Hush involved too. He'd make a great story line with the personal vendetta now that Batman's an outcast. I'd prefer to see Talia in the film over cat woman. I just think she would tie into the current progression of the films story line a lot better than Selina would. Either way, i loved the first 2 and I already can't wait for the next one to come out.

 

[The Mike]

Ras Al Ghul is a foreign character to the masses and so is to some degree The Scarecrow. Goyer is writing these and he is very Comic Book driven using various sources to get his ideas and Nolan is simply redrafting that original story into a viable screenplay with his brother. I wouldn't count out anyone really because Nolan seems to be willing to put his own take on the characters as The Scarecrow and The Joker were very different than their Comic Book Counterparts.

What I still maintain needs to be honored is a connection to the Mob. Nolan wouldn't not have centered both films around that connection to drop it now.

 

[Entropy]

The Scarecrow and The Joker were very different than their Comic Book Counterparts.

What I still maintain needs to be honored is a connection to the Mob. Nolan wouldn't not have centered both films around that connection to drop it now.

I thought Scarecrow and Joker were very true to the comic counterparts. Burton's Penguin, now that was a departure.

Having Two Face or Penguin assume control of the mob seems like a good solution to me.

 

[The Mike]

Two-Face wouldn't assume control of the Mob. It'd be a departure for the character. I could see him going after the Mob killing and saving based on his flips more than joining them. The Penguin could be done because in the books he was much more realistic but somehow I see Nolan going darker than ol' Oswald.

As for their Comic Counterparts, The Scarecrow was a stooge....that really isn't how he is played...The Joker was a terrorist and a killer for hire.....The Joker in the books is much more of a clown and less of a lunatic...not that I'm complaining.