WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

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scubasteve said:
Hmmm... :confused:

Yes! I agree with SickBoy! More Malin in the home video release!
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Everyone seems confused about my comments on Manhatten in the book. His character was useless accept for the metaphoric factor. His character actually serves no purpose to the plot. He doesnt discover Ozy's plan first, he doesnt effect the outcome of Ozy's plan. He doesn't help Ozy to get to the outcome. The idea of his character was good, but take him out of the book and what would be different? Now take him out of the movie....Ozy's plan was completely dependant on Manhatten.
 
Except for the fact that he was used as the fear to stop the war.

Without him, the US and USSR would have nuked each other long ago and there would be no life left on Earth.

He kinda is the story to me, at least from the movie. But if the book and movie don't match up on that part, then I'm just clueless.
 
Hulksmashed said:
Saw it for the first time Friday! Thought it was a little long, but it kinda needed to be in order to capture the feel of the book. The ending was sooo much better then the book. Or should I say the underlying conspiracy was much better then the book! It makes soo much more sense and actually USES Dr. Manhatten. Looking back, the Manhatten character was pretty useless and needless in the book.
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Well, this is going to stir up some $h!t. :lol
 
Hulksmashed said:
Everyone seems confused about my comments on Manhatten in the book. His character was useless accept for the metaphoric factor. His character actually serves no purpose to the plot. He doesnt discover Ozy's plan first, he doesnt effect the outcome of Ozy's plan. He doesn't help Ozy to get to the outcome. The idea of his character was good, but take him out of the book and what would be different? Now take him out of the movie....Ozy's plan was completely dependant on Manhatten.
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Well....we WON Nam because of Manhatten. We created a new energy source because of Manhattan. And without Manhattan, we couldnt develop teleportation....thus not allowing Ozy to use his vagina squid.

Manhattan plays the biggest role in the comic. He is the thing that changed the world.
 
CelticP said:
:huh

Why? Its just a ^^^^^...
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The guy was just hanging brain. I mean, what's all the fuss?
creed.jpg
 
Hulksmashed said:
Everyone seems confused about my comments on Manhatten in the book. His character was useless accept for the metaphoric factor. His character actually serves no purpose to the plot. He doesnt discover Ozy's plan first, he doesnt effect the outcome of Ozy's plan. He doesn't help Ozy to get to the outcome. The idea of his character was good, but take him out of the book and what would be different? Now take him out of the movie....Ozy's plan was completely dependant on Manhatten.
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You are missing the point of Dr. Manhattan he is a GOD, by all intents and purposes especially considering the fact no one else on Earth possesses any powers. He usage in the characters is to show that a human with no particular differences or anything really standing out other than a scientific educational background receives powers of extraordinary amounts. Once receiving these powers he not only aligns with a particular country which is completely reverse of the typical Superman being a world savior but on top of it has the ability to continuously disarm other countries, get involved in wars and decide the victors yet does not get involved until asked. Not only that but he continues to become more and more disassociated with humanity. Manhattan could essentially make sure war is an impossibility but he doesn't. He is involved with Veidt more for the work aspect then the outcome. He shows the essential question what happens when God turns his back on you? What happens when a God decides not to intervene in human affairs except on a superficial level. Superman gets involved in every aspect of the world's affairs, he is dying to be apart of humanity. Manhattan who is already a part of it simply chooses to ignore it.

The most powerful person on Earth has no desire to intervene, even in the end game decides that a charade is more important than taking the reins and becoming even an Emperor? His non-involvment speaks more volumes than anything he actually does. Its an excellent and thought provoking thought device.
 
CelticP said:
Well....we WON Nam because of Manhatten. We created a new energy source because of Manhattan. And without Manhattan, we couldnt develop teleportation....thus not allowing Ozy to use his vagina squid.

Manhattan plays the biggest role in the comic. He is the thing that changed the world.
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You are correct. However, that doesnt make the CHARACTER useful. It makes him a plot device. A plot device that could have been replaced by an endless number of plot devices. Winning Nam doesnt have to change the outcome of the story. A new energy source could have been derived from a number of places. Teleportation could have been developed soley by Ozy.

Someone else said that Manhatten is the only reason nukes hadnt yet been fired. If I'm not mistaken...the cold war was real...and no nukes were ever fired. Point being...you didnt need Manhatten in order to believe no nukes had been fired....especially since the book was written as taking place in the present/very near future.

I think my over all point was missed. I understand how they used Manhatten in the story. I'm simply saying, you could have easily removed him from the book and kept the over all plot in tact. The same cannot be said for the movie. Manhatten WAS the threat keeping the world at peace at the end.
 
The Mike said:
You are missing the point of Dr. Manhattan he is a GOD, by all intents and purposes especially considering the fact no one else on Earth possesses any powers. He usage in the characters is to show that a human with no particular differences or anything really standing out other than a scientific educational background receives powers of extraordinary amounts. Once receiving these powers he not only aligns with a particular country which is completely reverse of the typical Superman being a world savior but on top of it has the ability to continuously disarm other countries, get involved in wars and decide the victors yet does not get involved until asked. Not only that but he continues to become more and more disassociated with humanity. Manhattan could essentially make sure war is an impossibility but he doesn't. He is involved with Veidt more for the work aspect then the outcome. He shows the essential question what happens when God turns his back on you? What happens when a God decides not to intervene in human affairs except on a superficial level. Superman gets involved in every aspect of the world's affairs, he is dying to be apart of humanity. Manhattan who is already a part of it simply chooses to ignore it.

The most powerful person on Earth has no desire to intervene, even in the end game decides that a charade is more important than taking the reins and becoming even an Emperor? His non-involvment speaks more volumes than anything he actually does. Its an excellent and thought provoking thought device.
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I agree completely. As I said in my original post, the only purpose he served was metaphoric in nature. The book was in a sense the story of Dr. Manhatten. My point, is that his presence in the book does not change the outcome of the story. In the movie, his existence IS the ending of the story. A man that becomes a God and detaches unwillingly from humanity learns that he can NEVER live amongst men and not influence thier actions.
 
In the book he does focus the story. He cannot see Adrian's plan because of the interference but Moore gives you clues to the extents of his powers early on. When Laurie throws the cup at him he can put it back together even to the point of putting the liquid back in. He can put himself back together, create structures from nothingness. His inaction allows the plot to continue you see at any time he could have gotten rid of the squid, rebuilt the buildings and one can fathom put the people "back" together. He can see them on a molecular level and in the book they aren't vaporized but killed. He chooses not to do anything. That allows Veidt plan to continue forward.....it could have all changes by the flick of his wrist so I would argue that his inaction ensures the outcome. You are looking for actions to prove importance. I am arguing that both in the book and the movie his inaction speaks louder volumes and allows the story to run its course more than anything else or any other character doing anything.
 
The Mike said:
In the book he does focus the story. He cannot see Adrian's plan because of the interference but Moore gives you clues to the extents of his powers early on. When Laurie throws the cup at him he can put it back together even to the point of putting the liquid back in. He can put himself back together, create structures from nothingness. His inaction allows the plot to continue you see at any time he could have gotten rid of the squid, rebuilt the buildings and one can fathom put the people "back" together. He can see them on a molecular level and in the book they aren't vaporized but killed. He chooses not to do anything. That allows Veidt plan to continue forward.....it could have all changes by the flick of his wrist so I would argue that his inaction ensures the outcome. You are looking for actions to prove importance. I am arguing that both in the book and the movie his inaction speaks louder volumes and allows the story to run its course more than anything else or any other character doing anything.
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:lecture Well said, and 100% dead on the money. With Dr. Manhattan it's all about what he doesn't do. He could fix everything if he wanted to, but he doesn't care to. Everything he does is of the utmost importance to the story, he is the savior who refuses to save anyone in the end...
 
Saw the film. Never read the book. It was actually pretty good, but some of the characters did come off a bit 1 dimensional. Even Rorshach, who seemed to me to be the main character, didn't really develop too much over the course of the film like other main characters do, though you did come to understand his motivations.

I thought the Night Owl character was a bit weak, kinda "what has become of us?" was really his only POV. Would have been nice to see a little more of what he was before the retirement.

That said, the film was 100x better than films based on other graphic novels I never read, 300, Sin City, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, etc.

I really liked the montage at the beginning, for not being familiar with the Watchmen universe.
 
DinoLast said:
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Absolutely hilarious, lets hope Laurie and the Comedian aren't the father and daughter they are in the book :lol
 
You guys should read Moore's Miracleman Run.....Even Better than Watchmen IMO.
 
The Mike said:
In the book he does focus the story. He cannot see Adrian's plan because of the interference but Moore gives you clues to the extents of his powers early on. When Laurie throws the cup at him he can put it back together even to the point of putting the liquid back in. He can put himself back together, create structures from nothingness. His inaction allows the plot to continue you see at any time he could have gotten rid of the squid, rebuilt the buildings and one can fathom put the people "back" together. He can see them on a molecular level and in the book they aren't vaporized but killed. He chooses not to do anything. That allows Veidt plan to continue forward.....it could have all changes by the flick of his wrist so I would argue that his inaction ensures the outcome. You are looking for actions to prove importance. I am arguing that both in the book and the movie his inaction speaks louder volumes and allows the story to run its course more than anything else or any other character doing anything.
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I'm not looking for actions to prove importance. I'm looking at impact to prove importance. I'm not arguing that Dr. Manhatten is not an awesome allagory, cause he is! Pretend though, for a second that Manhatten had never been written into the graphic novel. In other words you can't argue FOR Dr. Manhatten because you have no knowledge of him at all.

The same story could have been told without his existence. In other words, if you read the Graphic Novel and he DIDNT exist...you would'nt sit there at the end thinking...hmm, this story was lacking a God-Like character that lacked action because he was so far above humanity.

So, as I have said before, I think Dr. Manhatten is an interesting character. I like his story. I simply think that his character is made more relavent as far as the plot is concerned by the ending of the movie.
 

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