WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[CelticPredator]

Its also for time. It couldnt be 3 hours other wise no IMAX...and the studio didnt really want a 3 hr run time, so things had to go away.

The artists had to go, the pirate story had to go, and without those two things, the squid doesnt work.

How will the ending work now? I dont know. But like I said, i'll wait and see.

 

[Scar]

I will as well, but I would hardly stipulate that TDK shows we have become boring as a society.

I would posit that LotR, JP, and JAWS all had plot changes that weren't just minor, but which were drastic departures from the original story (Scouring of the Shire, anyone?). My all time-favorite novels (admitedly alongside Watchmen and TLW), all of which had either glaring omissions or staggering alterations from the original endings, but which worked out quite well when translated to the cinematic medium.

I won't quibble; some will go in expecting it to be a disappointment, others will go in with reservations but hoping for the best, and still others will have already decided they are going to love the movie. Whichever category any of us falls into, we'll have to wait until March to render our final verdicts.

 

[CelticPredator]

No adaptation will be a 100%....Sin City was 99.9% but it wasnt a total perfect adaptation...(its amazing, but some lines, and things were cut out ect...)

People need to understand that the book will always exist...and the movie is like a compainon peice. You can watch it, or you can leave it be. It is what it is. If its ^^^^...its ^^^^. The book? Not ^^^^, will never be ^^^^, and will always rock.

 

[Scar]

No adaptation will be a 100%....Sin City was 99.9% but it wasnt a total perfect adaptation...(its amazing, but some lines, and things were cut out ect...)

People need to understand that the book will always exist...and the movie is like a compainon peice. You can watch it, or you can leave it be. It is what it is. If its ^^^^...its ^^^^. The book? Not ^^^^, will never be ^^^^, and will always rock.

Always the case, that usually the best movies have grounding in what has already been written, but are never carbon copies made to move before our eyes. It's a movie, we see it to be entertained. I'll be hoping for entertainment, not a doppelganger. Can't please everyone and as it is with every movie, some people will adore it and others will loathe it. We can just hope for the best.

 

[Darth Caedus]

They can do whatever they want, but I want some Bubastis

 

[barbelith]

The artists had to go, the pirate story had to go, and without those two things, the squid doesnt work.

The artists are barely in the book as it is. We're talking less than five minutes of run time. The Black Freighter stuff is clever but not exactly an essential part of the squid storyline.

 

[barbelith]

...all of which had either glaring omissions or staggering alterations from the original endings, but which worked out quite well when translated to the cinematic medium.

Good point, which is why I'm keeping an open mind until March.

 

[CelticPredator]

The artists are barely in the book as it is. We're talking less than five minutes of run time. The Black Freighter stuff is clever but not exactly an essential part of the squid storyline.

One page, does not equal one minute of screen time. That whole scene can run 10, or mabye 15 minutes, which takes away from the characters...which also takes away from the story....

I know it seems short...but its quite hard to take a panel and make it as long as you read it.

 

[LOTRFan]

Always the case, that usually the best movies have grounding in what has already been written, but are never carbon copies made to move before our eyes. It's a movie, we see it to be entertained. I'll be hoping for entertainment, not a doppelganger. Can't please everyone and as it is with every movie, some people will adore it and others will loathe it. We can just hope for the best.

Sure, and of course it is because the novel/etc is so well loved that people have such high expectations for film; of course the literature remains, but that isn't really the point.

I am ok with the Freighter being a DVD release, but the squid could and most likely will introduce larger issues to the story. I do find myself under the impression that most will find the visuals acceptable, and not be quite so critical with the plot.

 

[barbelith]

One page, does not equal one minute of screen time.

I know. You can get the artists across in five minutes of screen time. In fact you can actually tell the story without them, by incorporating their scenes into two or three lines of exposition. The idea that the squid had to go because of timing is nonsense.

 

[barbelith]

I do find myself under the impression that most will find the visuals acceptable, and not be quite so critical with the plot.

Looking again at 300 and V for Vendetta...

 

[CelticPredator]

There are few artist scenes. Theres the one where the woman is drawing the squid, some discussion, the explosion on the boat, and if they took out the Black Fraighter, it doesnt make much sense...so it is about time. The BF story would push the film to 3 hours, which is a no no for IMAX, and studios dont want this film to be 3 hours long.

 

[IrishJedi]

Looking again at 300 and V for Vendetta...

I have a decidedly more LOTR vibe from this than those two when it comes to adaptation and changes.

And, Caedus, Bubastis will be there.

The theatrical run-time of 2 hrs, 43 minutes (without "Black Freighter") doesn't bother me at all. The eventual complete cut on DVD will be 3 hrs and 30 minutes. That includes "Black Freighter", which is approx 20 minutes, plus the bookend scenes with the Bernies (maybe 5 more minutes)... so that means the Extended Cut will also have about 20-30 minutes of additional footage outside of that. I'm down. :chew

Also, is anyone as freaking excited for the hour long Under The Hood "documentary" as I am??? I anticipated that as much as anything. Can't wait.

 

[CelticPredator]

Not AS excited...but definitly excited. It should be really intresting, and I was wondering how they would do it...

 

[IrishJedi]

But to me it boils down to this: Alan Moore is a genius and Zack Snyder is not. Time lists Watchmen as one of the hundred greatest novels of the 20th century. Not graphic novels. Novels full stop. There's nothing to change.

I completely disagree. A literal translation of EVERYTHING in the book would be about 5 hours long, and it would be all but infeasible to pull off commercially. It was never going to happen.

And that's cool with me. The book is the book and we'll always have that no matter how the film turns out. Besides, a film can be its on work while maintaining the feel, theme, core characters and integrity of the book it's adapted from (see: LOTR).

I am more than willing to accept this movie as a separate incarnation of WATCHMEN (as long as the core themes, events and characters remain intact). It will never be the book, nor does it need to be.

And Snyder doesn't have to be a "genius" on the level of Moore to make this work. At the end of the day, if he pulls off The Comedian/Blake, Rorschach/Kovacs, Drieberg/Nite Owl, Manhattan/Osterman, Ozy/Veidt and Laurie/Silk Spectre as flesh-and-blood incarnations of the characters from the book and the overall message and point remains intact... he has succeeded in my eyes. And I have yet to see anything that indicates that he's failed there. We shall see.

 

[wofford29]

But to me it boils down to this: Alan Moore is a genius and Zack Snyder is not. Time lists Watchmen as one of the hundred greatest novels of the 20th century. Not graphic novels. Novels full stop. There's nothing to change.

It was listed as #7 on EW's list. #1 of course was "The Road." They can change whatever the hell they want in this as long as they don't touch that one. Sucks it got pushed back to 09 though, it was my most anticipated movie this year.

 

[IrishJedi]

Cover of the next issue of SFX Magazine:

 

[barbelith]

There are few artist scenes. Theres the one where the woman is drawing the squid, some discussion, the explosion on the boat, and if they took out the Black Fraighter, it doesnt make much sense...

But it's really not. You can remove the entire Black Freighter underscore and the squid still works. All you've described is less than five minutes of screen time and again if it was truly down to timing, it's information that Veidt can rely in three lines of exposition.

A literal translation of EVERYTHING in the book would be about 5 hours long, and it would be all but infeasible to pull off commercially.

I'm not talking about a literal translation. When I said there's nothing to cut, I was referring to having the climax be a faked extradimensional squid.

Besides, a film can be its on work while maintaining the feel, theme, core characters and integrity of the book it's adapted from (see: LOTR).

I agree. My suspicion is that it will maintain the feel and characters but not the theme or integrity. The entire thing lives or dies based on whether the climax poses an effective moral checkmate. That was the keystone of the book. I don't want to end up with something like V for Vendetta where it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but is in fact giving the opposite message intended by the author!

 

[IrishJedi]

I agree. My suspicion is that it will maintain the feel and characters but not the theme or integrity. The entire thing lives or dies based on whether the climax poses an effective moral checkmate. That was the keystone of the book. I don't want to end up with something like V for Vendetta where it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but is in fact giving the opposite message intended by the author!

I understand your suspicion and skepticism. I just have yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe that a moral checkmate is not still intact. It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

 

[Entropy]

I understand your suspicion and skepticism. I just have yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe that a moral checkmate is not still intact. It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

We'll see. The plot is a house of cards, start fiddling around with the 'whys' and hows' too much and the whole thing falls apart and begins to lose meaning.