I think the "Whys" are more important than the "Hows", but that's just me.
Like we've both said... we'll see.
Like we've both said... we'll see.
WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!
- Thread starter IrishJedi
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Scar
Super Freak
My sentiments EXACTLY, which is why I am still optimistic to say the least.
The squid isn't absolutely necessary for the story to work, and I can see why it would be deemed too out there or unbelievable, it is by design a shocking, jarring plot twist, but what do you replace it with is the question. Seems that the "enemy" the world rallies against are the costumed heroes themselves, specifically Dr. M. And I'm ok with the "we don't need gods to rule over us" theme, which reminds me of Kingdom Come and Superman becoming an enemy of the people trying to tear down the UN, but if they go in that direction, isn't that negated by the Keene Act? My big question is if they ditch the squid and scientist stuff, Comedian is then killed because he found out about Veidt's plan to frame Manhattan? meh. Hopefully, it's more interesting than that.
I agree. But framing Dr Manhattan doesn't actually work on any level to achieve the same ends. Oh well.
Yes. And even more to the point, Veidt doesn't need to frame anyone. He can just do it himself and people will still band together in fear of super heroes. It just doesn't add up. To say nothing of how the Comedian would be able to discover the plan...
I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised in March. We're obviously missing a key bit of plot information here. Maybe it all works in the film.
Yes, there's some plot bit which is the card Synder and co. have up their sleeve. Whether that card is an Ace or not remains to be seen. Not that there won't be some other surprises, but the new ending is the big reveal. I wonder if we'll see it coming akin to mentioning the scientists/artists, island, etc. I hope Comedian's breakdown scene with Moloch isn't watered down. But what else would cause that reaction, especially if Veidt's plan centers around using or framing Dr. M??
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I have to admit, this supposed framing of Dr. Manhattan angle has had me scratching my head as well. We'll just have to see how it all comes together in March... but that is indeed a notion I can't get my head around either.
Scar
Super Freak
True, one thing about we humans is that we're always sooooooo ready to believe the absolute worst about someone/something, whereas it takes a lot of convincing to show something to be good or positive. If Veidt did it himself, it would have been an incredibly altruistic act that I think would be in line with his character and his "all for the greater good" way of thinking. My only speculation would be that with Dr. M people don't really have someone they ostensibly have the hope of fighting and winning against. Maybe centralizing that seemingly insurmountable threat in one man is what makes the plan work as directing attention to a tangible third party... but would Dr. M really be cool with Veidt's plan of becoming the bad guy in the eyes of the entire world? I'm not entirely sure he would rally behind that cause convincingly and kill Rorschach to keep the secret that he's not really this ^^^^^^^ who murdered millions on a whim. Granted, Manhattan is the king of cold logic and rationality, but would he really come back to the world only to be branded the bad guy? There are definitely some plot points we're missing here. Can't wait to see how it all works out.
Already finding visual easter eggs from the trailers alone.
Check out the top-right of this image... slightly subtle Smiley Face in the reflection of the building lights:
Check out the top-right of this image... slightly subtle Smiley Face in the reflection of the building lights:
The Mike
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The thing I've always read into with Dr. Manhattan is that he feels separated from standard human society. Almost a God amongst Men. His attitude definitely portrays that as well. So in framing Dr. Manhattan one could presume that its the fear that the Supers feel above society and that they'd try to enslave and control standard humans. He'd be the perfect one to frame in that ideal because Manhattan's demeanor shows the most separations and elitist thinking....
Except the humans in Watchmen already feel this way and there was even a federal law passed in response to those fears, so it doesn't serve the same purpose as the squid re: a shock action that unites the world.
Scar
Super Freak
Exactly. Manhattan is sanctioned by the government, has advanced human techology by leaps and bounds, and has the powers of a god. It only makes to envy someone with that much power, let alone fear.
The Mike
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Scar kind of completed the thought I didn't. The fact that Dr. Manhatten was so closely governmentally tied still would envoke that kind of fear despite the law, etc. Also I will admit Barbelith that it still doesn't envoke the same response as the squid.
Not so sure. We Irish are impervious to psychoanalysis and psychological torture. Thus, if I saw a huge vagina squid sitting in the middle of Manhattan I think I might laugh.
Scar
Super Freak
Not so sure. We Irish are impervious to psychoanalysis and psychological torture. Thus, if I saw a huge vagina squid sitting in the middle of Manhattan I think I might laugh.
I'd say I'd be the guy laughing to himself while taking cell phone pictures to send to friends with the squid juxtaposed alongside a vag, but if I were in that close of proximity to the squid, odds are I wouldn't be alive to be having a laugh.
But the heroes are already feared and outlawed. So it still doesn't make any sense. And on top of that Manhattan's role as a US military weapon means the rest of the world has no reason whatsoever to unite and end the Cold War should he blow up a city. He already blows things up around the world.
This is why I think there's a plot element we don't know about yet. Otherwise it just doesn't add up. I'm going to be very frustrated if Snyder's idea of "getting" Watchmen = making it look like Dave Gibbons.
Scar
Super Freak
I agree, there has to be a great deal that we're not aware of. Even so, though, Dr. M left the planet as well as his allegiances to anyone and everyone on it with the exception of Laurie. While it could make people turn to the U.S. and issue a resounding, "WUDJUDO?!?! ," I'm willing to assume their anxieties would be directed to the god who they think is pulling the strings and putting millions to the axe. I see what you mean in that since he was a sanctioned representative of the U.S. government it would discredit the U.S. and seemingly dilute the uniting factor, but whether or not anyone would still tie he and his fault inextricably to the U.S. in light of the fact that he "attacks" NYC with such a catastrophic effect, I'm not entirely convinced. We are going to keep saying, "This ^^^^ just doesn't make sense" until we finally see the movie. We're going to have to wait until March to see definitively how well the alterations in plot work compared to the original story.
Silly and technically off-topic, but fun... Here is the custom WATCHMEN iPhone skin I had designed. It actually looks cooler than the pics suggest. Must be the flash...
I made and ordered it on uniqueskins.com
I made and ordered it on uniqueskins.com
Thanks! The edges look weird in the pic because there are no edges. They are cut there so it will fit over the iPhone neatly and without wrinkles. Because the phone is black behind it I guess it gives the impression that those corners are part of the design... but they're not.
