WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[HdoubleD]

You seem to be talking about popularity of a property rather than addressing whether a genre itself is mainstream.



Cop shows are mainstream television. That doesn't mean every one will be popular or even well known. But the genre itself is a mainstream genre and viewers are familiar with its conventions. The same is true of the superhero genre in film. Any given film may be more or less popular but the genre itself is a mainstream genre.

Interestingly, genres often don't perform similarly across different media. The medical genre is a mainstream staple on TV but there are few comic books set in hospitals. Or films, for that matter.

Thats exactly what im doing and what weve been doing, where you been buddy, havent we been comparing Dark knight with Watchmen???

I wish more executives were like you, because according to you were as likley to see a gen13 movie as we are a WW movie because there in the same mainstream genre and name recongnition means nothing .. CANT WAIT BUDDY!!!!!!

 

[CelticPredator]

i'm just glad to finally see people bashing the movie on its own merits instead of just being grossed out by dr manhattan.
opinions can be dismissed, but puritanical childishness really gets my goat.

I was talking to some dude at the theater, who said he didnt want to see it because of the blue peener.

C'mon....its just a peener.

 

[ProgMatinee]

You seem to be talking about popularity of a property rather than addressing whether a genre itself is mainstream.

Thats exactly what im doing and what weve been doing, where you been buddy, havent we been comparing Dark knight with Watchmen???

Exactly.

Arguing the overall success of a genre as a whole doesn't really have much relevance when we are comparing 2 films WITHIN that same genre.

The difference between the individual properties are the talking points...if you're still stuck on "The Mask and Men in Black had nothing over the Watchmen" I'll point to PG ratings, cuddly aliens, comedy, Jim Carrey and Will Smith.

 

[barbelith]

Thats exactly what im doing and what weve been doing, where you been buddy, havent we been comparing Dark knight with Watchmen???

We've also been discussing the mainstream genre in which both films reside. It's really an issue of terminology. Clearly Watchmen isn't a popular film, but it's certainly a mainstream one.

I wish more executives were like you, because if they were wed be watching a gen13 movie before a wonderwomen movie:rofl

There are plenty of executives like me. Where do you think X-Men came from? That movie was considered a massive gamble. Its success blew open the doors of the adaptation side, which is how we ended up with bizarre stuff like Green Arrow and Ant Man in the pipeline.

 

[barbelith]

Arguing the overall success of a genre as a whole doesn't really have much relevance when we are comparing 2 films WITHIN that same genre.

It does when we come across the frankly bizarre argument that a $150 million film in a hugely popular genre somehow isn't mainstream. That's what I'm addressing. They're all mainstream pictures; this one just isn't as popular as another for some reason.

 

[barbelith]

The difference between the individual properties are the talking points...if you're still stuck on "The Mask and Men in Black had nothing over the Watchmen" I'll point to PG ratings, cuddly aliens, comedy, Jim Carrey and Will Smith.

They're still examples of how unknown comic properties can become blockbuster smashes. It's ludicrous to pretend Watchmen started with additional disadvantages. The makers of those films simply made better choices than Snyder did re: what would appeal to audiences.

But that's a whole different kettle of fish, and not really germane to what I'm talking about.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Some ideas and concepts were never intended to be mainstream... and actually, thats ok.

I'm not feeling bad for Watchmen fans because I think for the most part it sounds like they got what they want.

I don't feel bad that Serenity never became mainstream (despite being in the same genre as Star Wars). I got a great film out of it and it doesn't bother me that hardly anyone else saw it.

I own a ^^^^ load of awesome records that are no more or less awesome for how many copies they sold.

I also own some ^^^^ty records that sold a lot.

 

[Bannister]

I was talking to some dude at the theater, who said he didnt want to see it because of the blue peener.

C'mon....its just a peener.

Did he end his statement with because I am not gay. I like chicks and don't need to see that, because I don't like guys in that way.

 

[barbelith]

Some ideas and concepts were never intended to be mainstream... and actually, thats ok.

Which ideas and concepts do you have in mind?

I don't feel bad that Serenity never became mainstream (despite being in the same genre as Star Wars).

You really need to wrap your head around the fact that the term mainstream doesn't speak to specific popularity. George W Bush was a mainstream political figure; he wasn't necessarily a popular one. Science fiction is a mainstream genre in cinema. It's a niche genre on television. Medical drama is a mainstream genre on television. It's a niche genre in cinema. Etc.

 

[HdoubleD]

It does when we come across the frankly bizarre argument that a $150 million film in a hugely popular genre somehow isn't mainstream. That's what I'm addressing. They're all mainstream pictures; this one just isn't as popular as another for some reason.

Well popular is YOUR opinion. In my opinion, making 55 mil in your first 3 days domestically, and raking in 94 million in 6 days total gross makes the film pretty popular. Almost 100 million in its first week, with 14 weeks remaining in a theatrical run, as well as dvd blu ray and rental sales.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Which ideas and concepts do you have in mind?



You really need to wrap your head around the fact that the term mainstream doesn't speak to specific popularity. George W Bush was a mainstream political figure; he wasn't necessarily a popular one. Science fiction is a mainstream genre in cinema. It's a niche genre on television. Medical drama is a mainstream genre on television. It's a niche genre in cinema. Etc.

I'm not talking about the mainstreamity of genres. I am talking of specific properties. And I already said I think your concept of the genre being mainstream overrides the fact that a property is not mainstream is stupid. You may disagree with me and move on, but I'm not bending to your misplaced concept. Sorry.

 

[barbelith]

Well popular is YOUR opinion.

Obviously.

 

[barbelith]

I'm not talking about the mainstreamity of genres. I am talking of specific properties. And I already said I think your concept of the genre being mainstream overrides the fact that a property is not mainstream is stupid.

Perhaps you can explain how Watchmen is not a mainstream property?

 

[ProgMatinee]

Perhaps you can explain how Watchmen is not a mainstream property?

I can give you the case example of in my previous 30 years of life prior to 2008 I had never heard of it, yet if I had the time I could probably list about 300+ comic book characters.

Do you know who Prime is, would a random person who is a superhero fan?

 

[The Mike]

You can buy Watchmen toys at Toys R Us. I can't think of the last bookstore or pop media store I've walked past without Watchmen stuff on display. Obviously not to the same scale as some movies but the point stands - even Watchmen has its merchandising plank.

That has less to do with Watchmen or even the Comic Book genre (Hell there were Sahara action figures) it has to do with the studios have realized that the money isn't exactly in the film but the ties to it, Evilface summed it up well here:

Of course. Starting with Batman in 89 and how Batmania was HUGE, everything had Batman on it and was selling. From that point on, every comic movie was to sell merchandise, period.

Watchmen is no different. Sell more books and now clothes, figures, everything as well.

A Gen13 film crafted as a blockbuster (given the budget, director, cast and marketing appropriate to these things) has every chance of actually becoming one. None of this stopped Hancock.

Hancock had its legions of Will Smith fans that made it an initial success, I've heard mixed reviews on the actual film but Barbelith's comment is right, with the best marketing that focuses on things like director, casting, etc. Anything could be a major blockbuster. Watchmen had the same possibility, it was marketed well, its just the story lent itself to knowing the source material, plain and simple. It didn't nail that with a lot of diehard fanboys because stuff was left out and due to this guided attempt it alienated the general populus. I don't think this is the swan song for Watchmen, I have a feeling it'll go cult classic and in about 10 years if it isn't being redone it'll be released in its extended version in smaller theaters....it has legs just not the same legs as the blockbuster, flash in the pan kind of things....

 

[EVILFACE]

Perhaps you can explain how Watchmen is not a mainstream property?

I would say it isn't because the general public has no clue who the characters are.

Superman, Batman, Spiderman, someone that Will Smith or Ben Affleck is playing, sure.

 

[barbelith]

I can give you the case example of in my previous 30 years of life prior to 2008 I had never heard of it, yet if I had the time I could probably list about 300+ comic book characters.

But you've heard of it now. Everyone has. It has a mainstream budget and a mainstream marketing push from a mainstream studio and concerns a mainstream genre. There isn't actually any part of the film that's out of step with mainstream movies.

 

[barbelith]

Do you know who Prime is, would a random person who is a superhero fan?

No. But that doesn't mean a $150 million tentpole film of it designed to launch the blockbuster movie season wouldn't be a mainstream release.

 

[The Mike]

Watchmen isn't mainstream, there was an attempt to mainstream it and even though people have heard of it or know of it now, it doesn't have the film appeal to continue to be mainstream which is usually defined by the general populus knowing about it without being segmented fans. I would say its definitely a mainstream thing in Comic Book circles but not out in the general public.

 

[The Mike]

No. But that doesn't mean a $150 million tentpole film of it designed to launch the blockbuster movie season wouldn't be a mainstream release.

A comic book fan may not even know Prime but I think that example and Barbelith's response is simply taking an obsecure thing and trying to make it mainstream. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but its attempted repeatedly.