WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[CelticPredator]

 

[barbelith]

Your teenage years must have been a blasty for your parents.

Just killing time talking about a movie.

 

[CelticPredator]

Ok. You want a point?

Veidt sold out. He became a public figure to sell toys, and crap to the masses.

He represents Batman and Robin. Batman selling out to make more toys. Yes, Batman has always sold, but it was Batman and Robin that pushed the character into a wall which there seemed to be no escape from.

Thats my take.

 

[plasmid303]

Thinking about going to see this again tomorrow morning on the gigantic IMAX in the city. Probably an early show so it's nice and quiet.

I'll be catching it with a couple friends this weekend on IMAX at the Metreon. I hope we get a better screen this time. Last time
i went to that particular IMAX, the screen we viewed our movie on had a fairly large smear across it. It looked like a stain that remained after an employee tried cleaning it (I think someone had thrown a drink at the screen or something). Hopefully it won't still be so packed (especially considering spring break just started for a lot of students).

 

[barbelith]

Ok. You want a point?

Veidt sold out. He became a public figure to sell toys, and crap to the masses.

He represents Batman and Robin. Batman selling out to make more toys. Yes, Batman has always sold, but it was Batman and Robin that pushed the character into a wall which there seemed to be no escape from.

Thats my take.

Except that's not what actually happened. Not only did Batman "escape" into a $1 billion movie, the huge toy push happened well before Batman and Robin. So that take doesn't hold up (nice try though, and I mean that genuinely, not sarcastically).

 

[ProgMatinee]

I disagree The Dark Knight is more mainstream than Watchmen in terms of film. Sorry to see your failure to construct a solid argument means you have to jump straight to the juvenile character assassination.

How can you even have that outlook. Its soooooo ridiculous.

As been explained already. Batman is a 60 year old property with half a dozen films, 1000s of comics, several cartoon series, countless toys, lunchboxes, etc.

If Watchmen is as mainstream as Batman then I guess Firefly/Serenity is as mainstream as Star Wars.

 

[CelticPredator]

Except that's not what actually happened. Not only did Batman "escape" into a $1 billion movie, the huge toy push happened well before Batman and Robin. So that take doesn't hold up (nice try though, and I mean that genuinely, not sarcastically).

It adds up if you know that Batman and Robin was only made to sell toys.

 

[Bannister]

It adds up if you know that Batman and Robin was only made to sell toys.

If you really look at it most of these movies are made to sell toys.

 

[CelticPredator]

Sorta. Batman Returns had a hard time selling because the film was so dark....

 

[Bannister]

Sorta. Batman Returns had a hard time selling because the film was so dark....

It doesn't mean WB wasn't banking on it to sell toys and Happy Meals.

 

[barbelith]

As been explained already. Batman is a 60 year old property with half a dozen films, 1000s of comics, several cartoon series, countless toys, lunchboxes, etc.

So what? That has nothing to do with the film as a film. In fact I would suggest familiarity with Batman only further radicalizes movies like Batman Returns and The Dark Knight.

The argument seems to be "moviegoers aren't familiar with these characters." Which isn't an argument at all, because they're familiar with the archetypes now. Watchmen might have seemed groundbreaking a few years ago, but these movies have already deconstructed themselves. Audiences have already seen The Dark Knight and Hancock and to a lesser extent X2 and the Spider-Man movies and even in some regard the Pirates movies. Watchmen is squarely in the mainstream as a film and if the WB truly didn't believe that they would have never invested $200 million in the picture plus marketing.

Knowing Batman vs knowing Nite Owl is irrelevant.

 

[barbelith]

It adds up if you know that Batman and Robin was only made to sell toys.

As Bannister points out, they're all made to sell toys. And how many years had the cartoon been on the air by that point? Weekly toy commercials right there.

 

[hbk007]

I don't know if anyone agrees but I felt the movie seemed rushed after Rorschach gets caught. I think they cut his backstory a little short and also cut out little things like how Rorschach has to go find his spare set of clothes and mask and that is when Nite Owl sees him maskless for the first time.

 

[prefused]

If you really look at it most of these movies are made to sell toys.

not on the level of B&R. every aspect of its production was geared towards hyping the toy line.
Schumacher talks about it on the dvd commentary.

 

[Bannister]

not on the level of B&R. every aspect of its production was geared towards hyping the toy line.
Schumacher talks about it on the dvd commentary.

I never said they were. I am well aware that Batman and Robin and probably even Batman Forever were more concerned with selling toys and Happy Meals than putting out a quality film. I am just saying that all these movies since Star Wars are made to sell toys to some extent.

 

[HdoubleD]

No. I'm just rejecting the absurd notion that a $150 million movie about superheroes that caps a decade where superhero movies have been massive blockbusters including a $1 billion deconstruction of the genre is somehow "not mainstream."

So your saying that if they came out with a gen13 movie, that be mainstream too?? thats laughable....

 

[ProgMatinee]

So what? That has nothing to do with the film as a film. In fact I would suggest familiarity with Batman only further radicalizes movies like Batman Returns and The Dark Knight.

The argument seems to be "moviegoers aren't familiar with these characters." Which isn't an argument at all, because they're familiar with the archetypes now. Watchmen might have seemed groundbreaking a few years ago, but these movies have already deconstructed themselves. Audiences have already seen The Dark Knight and Hancock and to a lesser extent X2 and the Spider-Man movies and even in some regard the Pirates movies. Watchmen is squarely in the mainstream as a film and if the WB truly didn't believe that they would have never invested $200 million in the picture plus marketing.

Knowing Batman vs knowing Nite Owl is irrelevant.

Thats so wrong its funny. You're suggesting that people blindly attend movies for archetypes and not for names? Thats retarded. People know and love characters like Batman, Spiderman, Superman. Knowledge and love translates to willingness to attend the movie.

Most don't know and thus can't already love the Watchmen. So there is a huge wall there to bypass to get the average person in a theater.

If I described some rock band to you: "there's 3 guitarists and a drummer" Is that enough to make you believe they're as mainstream as the Beatles? I mean, the archetype of a rock band is all there right? A drummer and some guitarists?

The idea that all comic book films are all mainstream is as absurd as all rock music is mainstream because they use the same instruments.

If I made some movie about a time traveling alien you never heard of, would you automatically go to it just because you like Dr. Who?

 

[prefused]

I don't know if anyone agrees but I felt the movie seemed rushed after Rorschach gets caught. I think they cut his backstory a little short and also cut out little things like how Rorschach has to go find his spare set of clothes and mask and that is when Nite Owl sees him maskless for the first time.

i think that depends on whether you've read the comics beforehand.
i notice stuff like that in most movies based on comics or novels i've read.
the medium requires stuff to get cut. so, your mind starts trying to fill in gaps that aren't really meant to be there.

 

[barbelith]

I never said they were. I am well aware that Batman and Robin and probably even Batman Forever were more concerned with selling toys and Happy Meals than putting out a quality film. I am just saying that all these movies since Star Wars are made to sell toys to some extent.

I can't help but notice the orgy of merchandise surrounding Watchmen itself...

So your saying that if they came out with a gen13 movie, that be mainstream too?? thats laughable....

Superhero movies have dominated the box office for nearly a decade. They now attract some of the biggest names in the industry and studios are willing to invest massive sums into their production and marketing. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is. Hancock made almost a quarter of a billion dollars. How many people knew that character before the movie dropped? How many people read the Mask or Men in Black or Wanted comics before they became blockbuster hits?

So tell me, what part of a big budget Gen13 movie would be out of step with mainstream cinema?

 

[ProgMatinee]

I can't help but notice the orgy of merchandise surrounding Watchmen itself...



Superhero movies have dominated the box office for nearly a decade. They now attract some of the biggest names in the industry and studios are willing to invest massive sums into their production and marketing. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is. Hancock made almost a quarter of a billion dollars. How many people knew that character before the movie dropped? How many people read the Mask or Men in Black or Wanted comics before they became blockbuster hits?

So tell me, what part of a big budget Gen13 movie would be out of step with mainstream cinema?

2 words: Will Smith.