WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[ProgMatinee]

But you've heard of it now. Everyone has. It has a mainstream budget and a mainstream marketing push from a mainstream studio and concerns a mainstream genre. There isn't actually any part of the film that's out of step with mainstream movies.

LOL. That can be said about ANY movie that isn't just showing in tiny art film theaters. But not every film is mainstream. Success makes something mainstream. The limited preunderstanding of the characters. The fact its rated R. The fact it has no huge actors. The fact its long. All these things make it unlikely to be mainstream. Its more likely to become a semi-successful cult film...again, much like Serenity.

 

[barbelith]

Anything could be a major blockbuster. Watchmen had the same possibility, it was marketed well, its just the story lent itself to knowing the source material, plain and simple. It didn't nail that with a lot of diehard fanboys because stuff was left out and due to this guided attempt it alienated the general populus.

This is my feeling too. I think at the end of the day it just doesn't work as a movie and that's why it's struggling. We fans bring so much baggage we can wallpaper over the cracks. I don't think it's the actual story; viewers are au faitwith superheroes and even the deconstruction of superheroes. So it's not that.

I would say it isn't because the general public has no clue who the characters are.

They didn't have any idea who Darth Vader was before May 1977 either. What a niche film that was!

 

[prefused]

I was talking to some dude at the theater, who said he didnt want to see it because of the blue peener.

C'mon....its just a peener.

it's never "JUST a peener" when your whole world is built around pretending they don't exist.

maybe they should've put that on the theater posters.

 

[barbelith]

That can be said about ANY movie that isn't just showing in tiny art film theaters. But not every film is mainstream. Success makes something mainstream.

Yes. But lack of success doesn't stop something from being mainstream (our last president is hardly a cult figure). Niche movies don't open with 3,611 theaters nor get $50 million marketing budgets.

Watchmen is a moderately performing mainstream picture.

 

[The Mike]

They didn't have any idea who Darth Vader was before May 1977 either. What a niche film that was!

To be fair Star Wars was a huge risk as well and in fact a niche film as viewed by the studio, it just happened to click with audiences so characters like Vader, Luke, etc became household names and mainstream. When you have something where someone can even name a character without knowing crap about them its definitely part of the mainstream Pop Culture. You can't compare original projects with adapted stuff. All original pieces are obscure because only the creator knows them.

 

[CelticPredator]

Did he end his statement with because I am not gay. I like chicks and don't need to see that, because I don't like guys in that way.

Neither do I. Hence why I wasnt paying attention to his peener.

 

[The Mike]

Watchmen is a moderately performing mainstream picture.

Watchmen is a mainstreamed picture that is moderately performing based on source material that is obsecure to the general populus.

That I would agree with.

The interesting thing is even though the source will probably still be "underground" the characters like Rorschach, The Comedian and Dr. Manhattan will be part of people's lexicons now. It'll be like Mickey Mouse (just an example people) where people know the character but have no clue of his actual origins. Unfortunately I don't think the same can be said about Silk Spectre, Nite Owl or Ozymendias.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Watchmen is a mainstreamed picture that is moderately performing based on source material that is obsecure to the general populus.

That I would agree with.

I would agree with that. If by chance it keeps doing well, I'll change to say it became mainstream, but the idea of it being mainstream from the moment it released I can't agree with. At least not in the same sense that a Batman movie is.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

Gotta agree, Rorschach, The Comedian and Dr. Manhattan are definitely the characters that people will remember.

Of course I loved Ozymendias. I think his class of villian or whatever you wanna call it is exactly like mine is. I would have done something similar to that if I was in his position. I'm just that kind of an evil prick.

 

[barbelith]

I would agree with that. If by chance it keeps doing well, I'll change to say it became mainstream, but the idea of it being mainstream from the moment it released I can't agree with. At least not in the same sense that a Batman movie is.

That's only because you continue to confuse mainstream with popular. The WB isn't in the business of dumping $200 million into movies it doesn't consider mainstream pictures.

I do want to answer my own (ignored) question about what part of Watchmen is out of step with mainstream cinema, and that would be Dr Manhattan's nudity.

 

[HdoubleD]

That's only because you continue to confuse mainstream with popular. The WB isn't in the business of dumping $200 million into movies it doesn't consider mainstream pictures.

I do want to answer my own (ignored) question about what part of Watchmen is out of step with mainstream cinema, and that would be Dr Manhattan's nudity.

Well, when compared to mainstream superhero movies such as spiderman and xmen, it is much more violent and gorey (the cleaver and jail scene), has nudity in it, both male and female, has a pretty long sex scene,clear depictions of prostitution, same gender relationsips, and a rape scene. need anyting else or is that good??

And is it 150 million or 200 million??? you keep stating different figures..

 

[Entropy]

RE: Ozy nipples...

The Schumacher Batman suit, and B&M film, was ridiculed as the most grotesque and self indulgent movie superhero depiction to date. To reference that look is to imply that Ozy is just as grotesque and self indulgent as a character, which of course is his true mask to hide his real machinations, and a subtle means to contrast the "gritty realism' of the Watchmen film with the fluff of the Schumacher B&R. Also, it was another chance for Synder to imply Ozy is homosexual.

not that any of those things are especially meaningful, deep or interesting.

 

[wofford29]

I'd like to hear a Watchmen lovers take on this please. It's something that's always bothered me about the story when originally reading the graphic novel, and really bothered me with the way they ended the film even more so (which by the way, no matter what anyone says the ending just doesn't work). Why and how is that the smartest man on the planet (Ozy) a man capable of creating life, building an empire around himself, capable of decieving a god, able to create perhaps what in real life would be the most ridiculously complicated scheme of all time and pull it off couldn't come up with a better idea of uniting the world than by killing millions of people. That's just for the books ending. It makes it even worse when looked at along with the movies misfire of an ending.

 

[plasmid303]

I'd like to hear a Watchmen lovers take on this please. It's something that's always bothered me about the story when originally reading the graphic novel, and really bothered me with the way they ended the film even more so (which by the way, no matter what anyone says the ending just doesn't work). Why and how is that the smartest man on the planet (Ozy) a man capable of creating life, building an empire around himself, capable of decieving a god, able to create perhaps what in real life would be the most ridiculously complicated scheme of all time and pull it off couldn't come up with a better idea of uniting the world than by killing millions of people. That's just for the books ending. It makes it even worse when looked at along with the movies misfire of an ending.

What would you do instead?

edit: for poor grammar.

 

[Entropy]

I'd like to hear a Watchmen lovers take on this please. It's something that's always bothered me about the story when originally reading the graphic novel, and really bothered me with the way they ended the film even more so (which by the way, no matter what anyone says the ending just doesn't work). Why and how is that the smartest man on the planet (Ozy) a man capable of creating life, building an empire around himself, capable of decieving a god, able to create perhaps what in real life would be the most ridiculously complicated scheme of all time and pull it off couldn't come up with a better idea of uniting the world than by killing millions of people. That's just for the books ending. It makes it even worse when looked at along with the movies misfire of an ending.

He can't change human nature, however. So how do you stop two scared, angry giants from fighting? Mediation? Bribes? or distraction? Can you eliminate the hostile feelings or is it more practical to redirect them? What would distract the giants and redirect those feelings of fear and anger? A new, greater threat to be scared of and angry at.

 

[The Mike]

Fear is a powerful tool. Look throughout history and you'll see often times a small group being able to hold a large population at bay with a fear tactic. Give them something larger to fear than each other and they'll join for hopes of survival. It isn't original its been done for centuries and it ties back to Ozy's love for the ancient times. Its an ancient strategy employed by modern measures.

 

[wofford29]

He can't change human nature, however. So how do you stop two scared, angry giants from fighting? Mediation? Bribes? or distraction? Can you eliminate the hostile feelings or is it more practical to redirect them? What would distract the giants and redirect those feelings of fear and anger? A new, greater threat to be scared of and angry at.

Fear is a powerful tool. Look throughout history and you'll see often times a small group being able to hold a large population at bay with a fear tactic. Give them something larger to fear than each other and they'll join for hopes of survival. It isn't original its been done for centuries and it ties back to Ozy's love for the ancient times. Its an ancient strategy employed by modern measures.

Both of these answers skirt the problem though. He's capable of anything based on the great lengths in which they go to describing his intellect. I agree fear is a very powerful tool, but why is it that the smartest human on the planet can't come up with a better solution than actually killing millions of people? It's absurd and accepted because it's what Moore gave us. Surely a man that can create life and manipulate a god could come up with a way to control the situation without destroying so many lives. The movie just makes this problem I have even worse because anyway you slice it there is no way blame on Dr. M would solve the problem. You can join forces to fight an alien or squid invasion. No matter how hard you try you can't join forces to fight a god, even when your planets smartest man can't come up with a way to defeat him, not to mention he's an American which blame would eventually fall back on. Hell he could sit on Mars and destroy existence, what is world unity going to do to stop that?

 

[teemu]

Alex Jones Watchmen review

New World Order Propaganda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNR3tm1ynEE

part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxjeJvOiQeg

part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcelc3Txd1g&feature=related

 

[Darth Rage]

RE: Ozy nipples...

The Schumacher Batman suit, and B&M film, was ridiculed as the most grotesque and self indulgent movie superhero depiction to date. To reference that look is to imply that Ozy is just as grotesque and self indulgent as a character, which of course is his true mask to hide his real machinations, and a subtle means to contrast the "gritty realism' of the Watchmen film with the fluff of the Schumacher B&R. Also, it was another chance for Synder to imply Ozy is homosexual.

not that any of those things are especially meaningful, deep or interesting.

I figured they were just trying to be accurate, seeing as how there are scores of pieces of historical greek and roman cuireses and armor that had heavily muscled "sculpts" which included nipples. Not to say Ozymandias isn't self indulgent or narcissitic, surely he is, but the smartest man in the world be heavily versed in history and armor.

Just sayin'

 

[Darth Rage]

Both of these answers skirt the problem though. He's capable of anything based on the great lengths in which they go to describing his intellect. I agree fear is a very powerful tool, but why is it that the smartest human on the planet can't come up with a better solution than actually killing millions of people? It's absurd and accepted because it's what Moore gave us. Surely a man that can create life and manipulate a god could come up with a way to control the situation without destroying so many lives. The movie just makes this problem I have even worse because anyway you slice it there is no way blame on Dr. M would solve the problem. You can join forces to fight an alien or squid invasion. No matter how hard you try you can't join forces to fight a god, even when your planets smartest man can't come up with a way to defeat him, not to mention he's an American which blame would eventually fall back on. Hell he could sit on Mars and destroy existence, what is world unity going to do to stop that?

I think the idea for the ending in the film is not so much uniting to try and defeat a common enemy the way the GN portrayed the squid / alien, but more uniting in peace and disarming, trying to stop the cold war. The impression I got from the film was more that the countries felt they were being punished by Dr. Manhattan's disapproval of their warlike ways. They believed he was showing them how insignificant their power and agression toward each other was compared to what he could do to them. I don't think the US or Russia could believe they could team up and defeat Dr. Manhattan....but if they don't play nice and behave, Dr. Manhattan is watching.

As far as the planet's smartest man not coming up with a plan to defeat Dr. manhattan, well....actually he did. He was able to disrupt Dr. Manhattan's ability to see into the future, so not only was Dr. Manhattan not able to stop Ozymandias, he actually went along with him and admitted that his plan worked, and killed Rorshack to save Ozy's plan from failing. I call that a win for Ozymandias.