WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[EVILFACE]

If you really look at it most of these movies are made to sell toys.

Of course. Starting with Batman in 89 and how Batmania was HUGE, everything had Batman on it and was selling. From that point on, every comic movie was to sell merchandise, period.

Watchmen is no different. Sell more books and now clothes, figures, everything as well.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Are Watchmen figures in Walmart and Targets?

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Are Watchmen figures in Walmart and Targets?

they are in every comic shop across the country.

 

[barbelith]

You're suggesting that people blindly attend movies for archetypes and not for names?

Not at all. I'm pointing out that audiences are now fluent in the superhero genre and that these movies warrant massive budgets because studios know mainstream audiences are there. Of course we want to see characters we know. But we're also willing to see characters we don't know.

People know and love characters like Batman, Spiderman, Superman. Knowledge and love translates to willingness to attend the movie.

Sure, for the opening weekend for the first film in a series. After that it depends on whether the movie works for audiences (not necessarily the same thing as the movie being good).

Most don't know and thus can't already love the Watchmen. So there is a huge wall there to bypass to get the average person in a theater.

Not really. Mainstream audience didn't know the X-Men before the first film. Or the Mask. Or the Men in Black. Or really even lower tier characters like Iron Man and Daredevil. It's because these films are now mainstream that we're also getting original pictures like Sky High and Hancock. They're making an Ant Man film FFS.

If I described some rock band to you: "there's 3 guitarists and a drummer" Is that enough to make you believe they're as mainstream as the Beatles? I mean, the archetype of a rock band is all there right? A drummer and some guitarists?

We seem to be hitting a wall re: definitions. You appear to be confusing mainstream with the popularity of a specific brand. I'm talking about mass market acceptance of a genre. Superhero films are mainstream entertainment.

 

[ProgMatinee]

they are in every comic shop across the country.

Thats a lot different than Target and Walmart. I wager that most kids playing with Batman toys have never stepped foot in a comic book store in their life.

 

[barbelith]

2 words: Will Smith.

And why do you suppose he picked that movie and the studio agreed to bankroll it? Because they thought it was a niche art film or because they knew superhero blockbusters are now mainstream entertainment that generate hundreds of millions of dollars?

Are Watchmen figures in Walmart and Targets?

They're in Toys R Us.

 

[the Doctor]

I don't know if anyone agrees but I felt the movie seemed rushed after Rorschach gets caught. I think they cut his backstory a little short and also cut out little things like how Rorschach has to go find his spare set of clothes and mask and that is when Nite Owl sees him maskless for the first time.

i agree,for what there was in the film was superb i left feeling there was to much left out for the watchmen experience i was expecting.

that said the directors cut whth more screen time might make it to the big screen or a super extended bluray so eventually i will get what i wanted.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Thats a lot different than Target and Walmart. I wager that most kids playing with Batman toys have never stepped foot in a comic book store in their life.

you'd be wrong. i'm sure a lot of kids have been in a comic shop or two.

 

[ProgMatinee]

We seem to be hitting a wall re: definitions. You appear to be confusing mainstream with the popularity of a specific brand. I'm talking about mass market acceptance of a genre. Superhero films are mainstream entertainment.

IMO thats your mistake. By definition a genre itself can't be mainstream. Things that transcend genres become mainstream.

 

[plasmid303]

This thread is difficult to keep up with! Don't visit it for a little while and boom! 5 thread pages happen! And they're all about mainstream media. It's all so abstract!.

 

[HdoubleD]

I can't help but notice the orgy of merchandise surrounding Watchmen itself...



Superhero movies have dominated the box office for nearly a decade. They now attract some of the biggest names in the industry and studios are willing to invest massive sums into their production and marketing. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is. Hancock made almost a quarter of a billion dollars. How many people knew that character before the movie dropped? How many people read the Mask or Men in Black or Wanted comics before they became blockbuster hits?

So tell me, what part of a big budget Gen13 movie would be out of step with mainstream cinema?

Because, frankly, <1 percent of the population even knows what gen13 is or that it exist. On the other hand, once a wonder women movie gets made, thats a different story because not one person in America does not know who wonder women is. They might not know her back-story, or her arch nemesis, but more people will see the movie compared to a gen13 just on the name recognition alone. Do you think a gen 13 movie has a chance to be as successful box office wise as a wonder women movie?

 

[ProgMatinee]

I'm sorry, but outside the internet, I'm missing all this supposed Watchmen merchandise? I haven't seen those Watchmen Pepsi cans or Watchmen happy meals or t shirts at Target like I do for the big 4 of Spiderman, Superman, Batman, XMen.

 

[barbelith]

IMO thats your mistake. By definition a genre itself can't be mainstream. Things that transcend genres become mainstream.

Absolute nonsense. Everything belongs to a genre. Law & Order is a genre show. Did none of you take a lit class?

 

[HdoubleD]

Absolute nonsense. Everything belongs to a genre. Law & Order is a genre show. Did none of you take a lit class?

Obviously everything belongs to a genre, but cant there be two things in the same genre (superhero movies), one which is mainstream (batman)and one that isnt(watchmen)?

 

[ProgMatinee]

Law and Order is a genre show, but because it transcends normal courtroom dramas it becomes mainstream. Same with CSI. They are now the Batman and Superman of those genres, so they can come up with new offshoots that succeed based solely on "CSI:Omaha".

Does their success mean that every cop or court show becomes mainstream?

 

[barbelith]

Because, frankly, <1 percent of the population even knows what gen13 is or that it exist. On the other hand, once a wonder women movie gets made, thats a different story because not one person in America does not know who wonder women is. They might not know her back-story, or her arch nemesis, but more people will see the movie compared to a gen13 just on the name recognition alone. Do you think a gen 13 movie has a chance to be as successful box office wise as a wonder women movie?

You didn't respond to what I wrote, but I'll address your point anyway. We live in a world where these sort of movies are firmly mainstream entertainment, to the point audiences can come to grips with films deconstructing the genre and films about minor comic characters and even entirely new characters. Do you really believe a significant percentage of the population knew who the Thing was before Fantastic Four? Of course not. A Gen13 film crafted as a blockbuster (given the budget, director, cast and marketing appropriate to these things) has every chance of actually becoming one. None of this stopped Hancock.

I'm sorry, but outside the internet, I'm missing all this supposed Watchmen merchandise? I haven't seen those Watchmen Pepsi cans or Watchmen happy meals or t shirts at Target like I do for the big 4 of Spiderman, Superman, Batman, XMen.

You can buy Watchmen toys at Toys R Us. I can't think of the last bookstore or pop media store I've walked past without Watchmen stuff on display. Obviously not to the same scale as some movies but the point stands - even Watchmen has its merchandising plank.

 

[ProgMatinee]

You can buy Watchmen toys at Toys R Us. I can't think of the last bookstore or pop media store I've walked past without Watchmen stuff on display. Obviously not to the same scale as some movies but the point stands - even Watchmen has its merchandising plank.

I'm not arguing that....but the difference between FYE and Walmart is about the same difference between Watchmen and Batman.

 

[barbelith]

Obviously everything belongs to a genre, but cant there be two things in the same genre (superhero movies), one which is mainstream (batman)and one that isnt(watchmen)?

You seem to be talking about popularity of a property rather than addressing whether a genre itself is mainstream.

Does their success mean that every cop or court show becomes mainstream?

Cop shows are mainstream television. That doesn't mean every one will be popular or even well known. But the genre itself is a mainstream genre and viewers are familiar with its conventions. The same is true of the superhero genre in film. Any given film may be more or less popular but the genre itself is a mainstream genre.

Interestingly, genres often don't perform similarly across different media. The medical genre is a mainstream staple on TV but there are few comic books set in hospitals. Or films, for that matter.

 

[prefused]

This thread is difficult to keep up with! Don't visit it for a little while and boom! 5 thread pages happen! And they're all about mainstream media. It's all so abstract!.

i'm just glad to finally see people bashing the movie on its own merits instead of just being grossed out by dr manhattan.
opinions can be dismissed, but puritanical childishness really gets my goat.

 

[barbelith]

I'm not arguing that....but the difference between FYE and Walmart is about the same difference between Watchmen and Batman.

You can't buy the Watchmen books or soundtracks at WalMart? I don't disagree the scale is different, but I'm sure you've seen some of the pictures here on this forum showing the startling amount of merchandise some people have already amassed. Sticking nipples on Ozymandias doesn't really point to commercialization in that sense. The action figures in his office are much more pointed! If those hadn't been in the book, I promise you I'd be giving Snyder props for that.