WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

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The death of millions would be the necessary galvanizing force to make people jump to their feet screaming for blood.

And what would they do, exactly? How do you fight a god?

Dr. Manhattan was so associated with America that worldwide genocide on his part would likely just turn the other countries even further against the US, not unite the world.

Yep. And of course it wasn't just that the squid was perceived to be extraterrestrial; it produced a psychic resonance so that every person on earth felt the deaths in New York and had no choice but to turn their backs on violence. To say nothing of the madness and manifest destiny themes weaving through the book that tie directly to the squid.

One of the problems Watchmen has as a story is that it doesn't work. It's too aspirational (I think the book is only cynical on its surface). I'm talking about the book, not the film. We've seen Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We saw those planes fly into the World Trade Center. We saw the Nazi war engine ... and half the world joined them. The Russians helped us fight that evil and we turned around and stabbed them in the back. It has to be an extraordinary event to result in world peace, and Dr Manhattan confirming the fears and suspicions about masked heroes doesn't achieve that, especially because he's an American weapon, used for American imperialism. If he attacks his masters, the rest of the world sees that as justice. If he attacks the rest of the world, well, he's been doing that for decades anyway.

It makes no sense. And if Ozymandias wants to pin everything on Dr Manhattan, what's the point of engineering his exile to Mars?! Ozymandias can't pull off the frame if Dr Manhattan isn't here anymore. World peace doesn't happen. He can't possibly know Laurie is going to talk Dr Manhattan out of his exile, and if he did know that, why bother conspiring to send him there anyway?

They took out a piece of the puzzle and didn't bother to replace it with one that had the same shape, because they were more interested in Dave Gibbons than Alan Moore. And that's fine. That's one way to appreciate the book. Many people will like this film. Many people will be so happy to see Laurie walking around in rubber that they won't care that she can jump several stories without a scratch or throw people across a room and through a wall.

And hey, Snyder could have given Dr Manhattan underwear throughout, making a lot of people a lot more comfortable but missing the point of his nudity. He got a lot of it right and I'm not going to discredit that. Right now I think the film is a bit of a curate's egg, a noble failure. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I look forward to seeing it again with a real audience, seeing how it plays and seeing whether my reaction changes.

I don't want to come across as too negative, just because I'm focusing on things I find important. I recognize other people don't necessarily watch movies the way I do, and there is certainly a lot to get excited about here.
 
And what would they do, exactly? How do you fight a god?

That's the ticket. That's the unified force. You would need everyone a full on attack to even attempt it. Ozy said himself that Manhattan couldn't stop them all, using that logic, the world would think onslaught is the kink in his armor and try and exercise that. It makes sense although it may not have the same effect as the Squid.
 
That's the ticket. That's the unified force. You would need everyone a full on attack to even attempt it. Ozy said himself that Manhattan couldn't stop them all, using that logic, the world would think onslaught is the kink in his armor and try and exercise that. It makes sense although it may not have the same effect as the Squid.

It doesn't make sense. He can dismantle tanks and vaporize humans. His "energy signature" destroys entire cities. Nothing can hurt him. So what do you do? What do you unify? Do you visualize armies of millions on one end of the pitch and Dr Manhattan at the other? He can vaporize them with a thought. He can create six billion replicas of himself and then vaporize them individually. Or do we empty our nuclear arsenal at him? Where? What happens after we melt the planet and discover he just hopped to Mars at the point of impact? I suppose it doesn't matter. We'd all be dead anyway.

The entire point of engineering his exile to Mars is that Dr Manhattan can't be beaten.
 
And also, if there IS another War, DR. M will blow the hell out of the ones who start it. Ergo...no more war.

Well, in the graphic novel they made the point that, he can't make the first attack to stop them in the first place, he has to wait until someone attacks, and when that happens he doesn't have enough time to stop all the missiles and everyone would die anyways.
 
Dr. Manhattan was so associated with America that worldwide genocide on his part would likely just turn the other countries even further against the US, not unite the world.

Does "Manhattan" take out any American cities? If so, that would distance him from America.
 
Does "Manhattan" take out any American cities? If so, that would distance him from America.

I don't think that would work, I think everyone would blame America for him going ballistic. And wouldn't feel sorry for them being attacked. It's like I threaten someone with a pet tiger and then it goes crazy and attacks both myself and everyone else, they'd most likely hate me more rather than feel sorry for me and unite to take out the tiger.


And since they kept Bubastis in the story it wouldn't be too much to bring in the squid. And if they did it like it was in the book it wouldn't be too weird. In the book they only show parts of it.
 
Dr. Manhattan was so associated with America that worldwide genocide on his part would likely just turn the other countries even further against the US, not unite the world. Even a popcorn movie like Independence Day played with the idea of the world uniting despite their differences to battle a foe that was not of this earth, and it worked. An alien threat gives everyone a common enemy, with no politics or finger pointing or blame. Just humanity united against a threat that has no connection to earth or affiliation with any of it's nations. Manhattan was far too implicated and involved in US foreign policy and world history to be seen as an impartial third party and wouldn't evoke the kind of emotions from the world that the story requires--if the "alien" enemy had been America's superpowered bulldog all along, it would not have inspired the same response. The next step would be the world turning against the US so we never abuse our power again, with Nixon on the defense and the coldest Cold War yet.

So I'm interested in seeing how this all plays out in the movie.

I am in complete agreement with this Tom, it makes no sense how an identifiable enemy could stop a global conflict - esp one that has (whether in the past or not) sided with a major player. I suppose it may just come down to watching it for myself and forming my own opinion, but I am and have been far from convinced thus far.

But it never really ends, right? ;)
 
And since they kept Bubastis in the story it wouldn't be too much to bring in the squid. And if they did it like it was in the book it wouldn't be too weird. In the book they only show parts of it.

And of course Bubastis is directly tied to the squid...
 
He also took out the squid because you'll have to deal with all the artist stuff, and all that. It would be impossible to fit into a 2hr 35min movie, and not sacrifice any character moments.

And yes, I expect the "Shoulda been an HBO series". And that could also be true..but I highly doubt that would happen.

But regardless, the book still stands, and its still good.
 
He also took out the squid because you'll have to deal with all the artist stuff, and all that. It would be impossible to fit into a 2hr 35min movie, and not sacrifice any character moments.

Not really. You could do it in a minute of screen time. The artists are barely in the book and needn't be in the movie at all. My issue isn't with the lack of squid; it's with the lack of understanding of why the squid was in the book and the failure to replace it with something that hit those beats. Pull out the lynchpin and the story doesn't make any sense (and to be frank neither does the film).

But it sure does look pretty, and for a lot of people that will be enough.
 
In the book, I seem to get the idea that Veidt manipulated Manhattan into his self imposed exile because that would escalate the international political situation (with him gone, the USA loses their protection) and also to keep him from interfering in his plot. With the new movie version, I'm not sure I understand Veidt's motivation to get Manhattan off the planet.
 
He's banished by humans, and extracts revenge?

The general population wouldn't know Manhatten as well as us who read the book. He is a crazy blue god-guy that the general population doesn't know a whole lot about. I wouldn't doubt him wanting revenge in the slightest if I was in the general population. So, I'd say it is actually a good plan.
 
Not really. You could do it in a minute of screen time. The artists are barely in the book and needn't be in the movie at all. My issue isn't with the lack of squid; it's with the lack of understanding of why the squid was in the book and the failure to replace it with something that hit those beats. Pull out the lynchpin and the story doesn't make any sense (and to be frank neither does the film).

But it sure does look pretty, and for a lot of people that will be enough.

:lecture :lecture :lecture

In the book, I seem to get the idea that Veidt manipulated Manhattan into his self imposed exile because that would escalate the international political situation (with him gone, the USA loses their protection) and also to keep him from interfering in his plot. With the new movie version, I'm not sure I understand Veidt's motivation to get Manhattan off the planet.

I got that as well.
 
Who knows. I havent seen the movie, i'm just trying putting logic into this new story.

I'll have to see it before I can say weather I like it or not.
 
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