WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[barbelith]

Well the thing about Manhattan's clones WAS in the graphic novel and is what led Laurie to leaving.

It's almost as if Snyder didn't understand why certain scenes were there...

 

[endless1]

Just a bad movie by HACK SYNDER! Here is a simple question, if DR. MANHATTAN can assemble and disassemble weapons, like a tank, with a single thought, why not disassemble the nuclear weapons of the soviets or any nation that has nuclear weapons. Movie is 2 hrs shorter. Oh, by the way the, one of only buildings in NY that survive a energy blast is the one that gets roacharts journal. That made no sense. HACK SYNDER satan owns your soul.

 

[BadMoon]

I expected the film to approach cinema as seriously as the book approached its medium. It's ludicrous to expect otherwise. Watchmen is the Lawrence of Arabia of its medium and genre knows no quality bounds. Do you even understand why the book is so critically well respected? Do you not think it's acceptable to expect the adaptation of one of Time's 100 best novels of the 20th century to hold up to its better films as well? I don't understand the idea that because this is a story in the superhero genre we should throw our critical faculties out the window.



Well if you think Spider-Man and Superman should be brutally slaughtering all the gang-level guys who attack them then fair enough. I'm sure you've thought this all the way through.

I guess my point is I thought the movie stayed pretty damn close to the book. My only other downer other than 99luftballoons playing was the fact that Rorshach hit the guy on the head with a cleaver versus lighting him on fire.

Would have been powerful I think.

Must leave need beans.

 

[The Mike]

All right. I haven't read the pages of responses since my absence here but let me say I loved the movie. Everyone we went with agreed without a doubt that the comics were better without argument and really missed the small things the like the origins of Rorschach's mask, the backstory of Laurie hating her mother, Rorschach's interrogation and Happy Hogan's about Blake's death...even small things like Laurie smoking but thought it was the best overall film we could have hoped for.

I didn't mind the ending thought it worked the idea of world peace unity as long as they were joined by the constant threat of Manhattan's return but I did miss the conversation between Manhattan and Ozy because it gave a weird sense of humanity in the face of a murderer for the greater good that didn't really translate with Laurie. My wife was upset the final sex scene was cut because when Jon looks down at Laurie and Dan and smiles it portrays that he wanted her happy over anything else and continued that touch of humanity and that was completely lost.

I will say this after reading the review by Debbie Schlussel, I went in expecting the worst in terms of violence, gore and sex and actually found it to be rather tame....a couple of jarring shots like the alley sequence, the hand cutting but the scenes depicted in her review I wasn't really all that shocked by. I didn't even notice the blue dong on screen until my wife giggled at one point. The audience I was with laughed more at Dan's naked ass standing in front of the Owl Suit than any of Manhattan's nudity.

I loved it. Can't wait for the DVD release because I think some of the things I missed will obviously surface there. I was in pure shock and fanboying out when I could see the exact pinpointing of the panels of the comic to the film down to the smallest detail. Unfortunately all that fanboy goodness makes it real obvious when you realize halfway through the subtile changes and the movement towards the films overall end.

 

[BadMoon]

Just a bad movie by HACK SYNDER! Here is a simple question, if DR. MANHATTAN can assemble and disassemble weapons, like a tank, with a single thought, why not disassemble the nuclear weapons of the soviets or any nation that has nuclear weapons. Movie is 2 hrs shorter. Oh, by the way the, one of only buildings in NY that survive a energy blast is the one that gets roacharts journal. That made no sense. HACK SYNDER satan owns your soul.

Did you even read the book?

 

[barbelith]

Just a bad movie by HACK SYNDER!

I don't think he's a hack. He certainly knows how to work a camera; there are some great images in the movie. He just doesn't know how to combine those images into a narrative of human drama. But then that seems like such a passe requirement these days. Remember when McG was hot?

 

[BadMoon]

I will say this after reading the review by Debbie Schlussel, I went in expecting the worst in terms of violence, gore and sex and actually found it to be rather tame....

I did as well my friend. I still don't get the OVER THE TOP stuff.

 

[BadMoon]

I don't think he's a hack. He certainly knows how to work a camera; there are some great images in the movie. He just doesn't know how to combine those images into a narrative of human drama. But then that seems like such a passe requirement these days. Remember when McG was hot?

Just curious and you can choose to enlighten me or not. What are your top 10 movies that you think are just the best you have ever seen?

 

[endless1]

Did you even read the book?

Yes. And I re read it after I wasted my time watching that piece of ^^^^.

 

[barbelith]

I guess my point is I thought the movie stayed pretty damn close to the book.

I guess my point is I don't understand how turning Dan and Laurie into brutal killers (thereby undermining the intention behind Rorshach and the Comedian and the ambiguity of the Keene Act) is "pretty damn close to the book." But I respect that not everyone watches a movie for the same things. I prefer substance to flash.

 

[The Mike]

I did as well my friend. I still don't get the OVER THE TOP stuff.

The Manager of the Theatre made the rounds during the previews, they actually stopped them and flipped the lights on for him to explain "this is not your typical superhero movie and if you are offended come to the box office and we'll take care of you..." All this hulabaloo and really there was far worse out there.

 

[BadMoon]

I guess my point is I don't understand how turning Dan and Laurie into brutal killers (thereby undermining the intention behind Rorshach and the Comedian and the ambiguity of the Keene Act) is "pretty damn close to the book." But I respect that not everyone watches a movie for the same things. I prefer substance to flash.

See but this movie, IMO of course was not flash over substance. It just wasn't. As a matter of fact I would even go as far to say that the kids that watch this will be bored out of their minds because of the story and lack of violence that they expect in todays cinema.

 

[The Mike]

I guess my point is I don't understand how turning Dan and Laurie into brutal killers (thereby undermining the intention behind Rorshach and the Comedian and the ambiguity of the Keene Act) is "pretty damn close to the book." But I respect that not everyone watches a movie for the same things. I prefer substance to flash.

This I have to agree with. Rorschach kills and it makes him the extreme. He has a reason to be so though and making Laurie and Dan almost as violent kind of waters down Rorschach and twists the Laurie and Dan character a bit. It definitely pulled me out of the film but only momentarily.

I really did miss seeing The Hollis' trip in the end though and was expecting Malin to be blonde again there. Although I did like how they handled the New Frontiersmen open styled ending.

 

[YoNoSe]

Nor do I. That wasn't my point.

If you really want to get technical ask them the proper way to snap a neck. If they were in the same line of work or MOS if you will, they will tell you that the movies have had that wrong for years. I dare you to try to twist someones head around on swivel. It won't work. Now take your left hand on the back of someones head and push down while taking your right palm on the chin of said opposition and pushing up I am sure you will find a more positive outcome.

I actually regret responding the way I did to you. Let me try to say it like this -

At the beginning of the rape scene, Silk Spectre punches the Comedian. It's so forceful that he is spun around by her punch. It's a Super Hero punch. When he punches her back, the audience laughed, and this audience didn't laugh at the blue ^^^^^. They laughed because after Silk Spectre's ridiculous punch the Comedian's punch seemed comical. Then he proceeds to beat her into the pool table and it becomes Serious.
When you elevate the level of violence strictly for the "coolness" factor, you confuse and mute the effect and purpose of real violence.

I hate to come off as a detractor because I did enjoy the movie in many ways. I plan to see it again. I just think some of the easiest things to discuss after one viewing are the glaring missteps.
So as not to be a total Debbie Downer - I found Manhattan's origin story to be brilliantly told. There were points during this extended sequence that were almost completely silent and there was not a sound to be heard from the audience throughout. For a Friday in New York I think that is quite a compliment to the filmmakers.

 

[BadMoon]

The Manager of the Theatre made the rounds during the previews, they actually stopped them and flipped the lights on for him to explain "this is not your typical superhero movie and if you are offended come to the box office and we'll take care of you..." All this hulabaloo and really there was far worse out there.

Really? I have tried to prepare my friends for this movie by simply saying this is more of a mystery movie. It is not Batman or Spiderman. But I never expected a manager to shut everything down to preface this. LOL!

 

[The Mike]

Its funny how stuff comes to you after being triggered by other's comments. That is another thing that concerned me, Manhattan was the only one with powers, yet if you watch Silk Spectre I she punches as if she has a level of super strength. Dan and Laurie and punch almost as strong and move fluid as if possessing superhuman agility. How the hell is Ozy so damn strong? The beating of Blake was severe and not to mention his agility and strength during his attack and the end sequence. It was really more played up that it needed to be, I did though like Matthew Goode's portrayal of Ozy...fit the bill about 90%

It again removed the importance of Manhattan being the only powered hero.

 

[BadMoon]

At the beginning of the rape scene, Silk Spectre punches the Comedian. It's so forceful that he is spun around by her punch. It's a Super Hero punch. When he punches her back, the audience laughed,

I was sitting in front of a bunch of kids and I was actually getting a little pissed when this happened. They in fact LAUGHED! I was thinking to myself if this happened to your mom or sister it would not be funny. I guess I just didn't take it as amusing.

Dr. Manhattan was amazing too in my book. I like how he just played the part like he didn't give a damn the whole movie. Perfect!

 

[barbelith]

Just curious and you can choose to enlighten me or not. What are your top 10 movies that you think are just the best you have ever seen?

I don't think in terms of lists. But if you just focus on what's out in theaters right now, we've got some really solid filmmaking like Slumdog Millionaire and The Wrestler. Now obviously I don't expect Snyder to be as accomplished as Boyle or the like but look at the "normal" scenes in Watchmen and then try to pretend they can even remotely stand up to similar scenes in a proper drama.

The reason The Dark Knight resonated was because it worked on that level. Just as cinema, you didn't have to make excuses for it because it was a genre film. The same with Blade Runner and so forth. Then you look at who's making these movies, and the other movies they've made in their heyday, and you start to realize why they were able to make genre movies capable of standing up to the best dramas. Maybe once Synder's able to make a Memento or a Thelma and Louise he'll be able to make the "domestic" parts in something like Watchmen work.

 

[barbelith]

See but this movie, IMO of course was not flash over substance. It just wasn't.

Can you explain this, especially re: Dan and Laurie in the alley vis a vis the thematic relevance of Rorshach?

 

[BadMoon]

Can you explain this, especially re: Dan and Laurie in the alley vis a vis the thematic relevance of Rorshach?

The alley sequence never even crossed my mind when watching the movie and thinking of possible flaws to be honest. I just knew that Rorshach was a level far beyone theirs and so did the audience. At least in the theater I was in. They still had a far enough seperation to make it work for me.