Who hates the Current Economy?

[LChinoz]

The majority of Americans support this bailout package. Why? Maybe because they have faith in the President, maybe it is because they believe it will genuinely help the economy, but I think most people support it because they need help now, are afraid, and understand we NEED to do something.

 

[bearmodel]

I want to support the stimulus package but with so much "pork" in it, it is hard to. a couple of billions for Acorn, millions of dollars in contraception (I don't think that stimulate the economy) and a couple hundreds of millions going to unions and new government buildings and computers. The objective of a stimulus is to stop the down spiral of the economy right now. According to what I heard and read, it is not going to help stimulate the economy very much but benefit a lot of people who are connected with the democratic party.

Of course there are a few good things in it but if it doesn't stimulate the economy, than it is not a good package.

I hope it works, though. Hey, all I want to do is making sure I have a job and enough money to take care of my family and buy Sideshow stuff.

 

[Mesa]

I want to support the stimulus package but with so much "pork" in it, it is hard to. a couple of billions for Acorn, millions of dollars in contraception (I don't think that stimulate the economy) and a couple hundreds of millions going to unions and new government buildings and computers. The objective of a stimulus is to stop the down spiral of the economy right now. According to what I heard and read, it is not going to help stimulate the economy very much but benefit a lot of people who are connected with the democratic party.

Of course there are a few good things in it but if it doesn't stimulate the economy, than it is not a good package.

I hope it works, though. Hey, all I want to do is making sure I have a job and enough money to take care of my family and buy Sideshow stuff.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was talking about.

Maybe coming from you, people will be more receptive to an opposing opinion and actually read into the details of what their children's tax dollars are going to be funding, rather than take the celebration the Democrats are having at having passed this piece of garbage as good news.

This whole bailout reminds me of a poorly managed kid's lemonade stand. The parent's go out and spend $20 worth of material, lemons, cups, sugar, etc. At the end of the day, the kid walks in and proudly shows off the $5 they made.

that's what this bailout equates to. Spending billions and billions of dollars in order to create some jobs and justify wasteful spending on things that having nothing to do with creating jobs or stimulating the economy. How is this going to help the people that got laid off at some big tech firm, or some bank, or some office. You think they are going to get out there with a shovel and perform hard manual labor rebuilding bridges and roads?

 

[teemu]

about this bailout your all hoping that will work...where is all this money coming from???? we are 9+ trillion dollars in debt....once again, where is this money coming from? print money???? print money out of thin air??? print money that has no backing whatsoever??
you do realize (likely not) that when they print money like they do, it causes dollar de-valuation? and makes costs/prices go up! (inflation)
This will destroy the Dollar as we know it and eventually it will go bankrupt

money as debt
watch this video please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

 

[nash]

Maybe Im not thinking the right way, but money is paper....paper is just paper.

Gold and silver are just metals. metal is metal.

The only difference imo is that paper is easier to carry around than metal. Both are "valued" because we have learned to value them. None of them in reality mean anything except for the value placed upon them.

What are you saying we should use teemu?

 

[teemu]

Maybe Im not thinking the right way, but money is paper....paper is just paper.

Gold and silver are just metals. metal is metal.

The only difference imo is that paper is easier to carry around than metal. Both are "valued" because we have learned to value them. None of them in reality mean anything except for the value placed upon them.

What are you saying we should use teemu?

Hey bro....paper is printed...gold and silver in mined from the ground..you cannot print gold or silver...its takes blood and sweat to mine gold...look past whats easier to carry around in your pocket and look at history...precious metals have been a monetary money for thousands of years...a fiat paper system will eventually fail and does not last...our dollar is not backed by anything other than a broken promise and represents debt! why are countries dumping our dollar? china does not want our dollar(they want the gold)...what happens when they stop taking it? think about it..we put our faith in a broken promise

We should use gold and silver as money (as the constitution demands)
We should have things than can be bartered with...things that can be used to trade with...

our economy is 70% consumer based as we dont produce anything...its just service jobs anymore...these service jobs are being lost everyday. just research this stuff, the truth is there

 

[nash]

Hey bro....paper is printed...gold and silver in mined from the ground..you cannot print gold or silver...its takes blood and sweat to mine gold...look past whats easier to carry around in your pocket and look at history...precious metals have been a monetary money for thousands of years...a fiat paper system will eventually fail and does not last...our dollar is not backed by anything other than a broken promise and represents debt! why are countries dumping our dollar? china does not want our dollar(they want the gold)...what happens when they stop taking it? think about it..we put our faith in a broken promise

We should use gold and silver as money (as the constitution demands)
We should have things than can be bartered with...things that can be used to trade with...

our economy is 70% consumer based as we dont produce anything...its just service jobs anymore...these service jobs are being lost everyday. just research this stuff, the truth is there

But precious metals are only precious because of a convinced notion of "value".

Youre right, we don't produce because we didnt have to produce. we just outsourced and imported.

 

[teemu]

But precious metals are only precious because of a convinced notion of "value".

Youre right, we don't produce because we didnt have to produce. we just outsourced and imported.

Well,I can tell you this....someone would take your gold/silver before they'd take your paper....I promise you that...what would you rather have?

we outsource and thats why there are millions of americans without jobs...producing creates jobs

 

[icruise]

But precious metals are only precious because of a convinced notion of "value".

Youre right, we don't produce because we didnt have to produce. we just outsourced and imported.

Well, gold does in fact have some uses in technology aside from its "imaginary" value. Still, its use as a means of backing currency has more to do with the fact that it is valued by all cultures and there is a finite amount of it. But as far as I know, no country today uses a gold standard, and the US hasn't for a long time. I don't really think it's possible to go back. It's true that just printing more and more money isn't a good thing (look at Zimbabwe, where they have such high inflation that a loaf of bread costs 300 billion Zimbabwe dollars, and they've had to start printing 100 trillion dollar notes) but there are other ways of preventing that extreme from happening.

 

[nash]

So what would happen when we run out of gold/silver to produce and to pay people with?

 

[teemu]

Well, gold does in fact have some uses in technology aside from its "imaginary" value. Still, its use as a means of backing currency has more to do with the fact that it is valued by all cultures and there is a finite amount of it. But as far as I know, no country today uses a gold standard, and the US hasn't for a long time. I don't really think it's possible to go back. It's true that just printing more and more money isn't a good thing (look at Zimbabwe, where they have such high inflation that a loaf of bread costs 300 billion Zimbabwe dollars, and they've had to start printing 100 trillion dollar notes) but there are other ways of preventing that extreme from happening.

you make good points...but to say gold/silver is an "imaginary" value is insane (and I say that with kindness)....its no different than paper currency right? paper is imaginary too then.....gold and silver CANNOT and I repeat Cannot go bankrupt...paper can go bankrupt as its printed out of nothing

 

[The Ween]

Can you not take a dollar bill and buy a dollar's worth of silver or gold with it?

 

[teemu]

So what would happen when we run out of gold/silver to produce and to pay people with?

the problem is...we are running out of metal (the mines are shutdown cause they cant afford to keep them open) its costs lots of money to mine precious metals from the ground which makes them much more valuable...the rich elite are buying it up...and are manipulating the price of gold to hoard it.Coin dealers cant keep inventory in stock and are charging premiums for bullion...right now,people are running to gold as a safe haven (protection) as the dollar is tremendously losing its value..

 

[nash]

Can you not take a dollar bill and buy a dollar's worth of silver or gold with it?

and can you not take gold and sell it for dollar bills?

 

[nash]

the problem is...we are running out of metal (the mines are shutdown cause they cant afford to keep them open) its costs lots of money to mine precious metals from the ground which makes them much more valuable...the rich elite are buying it up...and are manipulating the price of gold to hoard it.Coin dealers cant keep inventory in stock and are charging premiums for bullion...right now,people are running to gold as a safe haven (protection) as the dollar is tremendously losing its value..

but you didnt answer my question.... you're pro gold/silver as currency right? So what would happen when we finally run out of gold/silver to produce as currency?

 

[icruise]

you make good points...but to say gold/silver is an "imaginary" value is insane (and I say that with kindness)....its no different than paper currency right? paper is imaginary too then.....gold and silver CANNOT and I repeat Cannot go bankrupt...paper can go bankrupt as its printed out of nothing

When I say it's imaginary, I mean that it's only got value because we think it has value. So in that sense both gold/silver and paper have imaginary value (paper is more imaginary than gold, since at least gold has some uses, but it's not as if there is some intrinsic property of gold that makes it worth what we think its worth. Same with diamonds, etc.) I agree that the gold standard was good in the sense that it prevented the government from just printing money whenever it felt like it, but those days are long gone now. If you use the current price of gold, I believe the US economy is already bigger than all of the gold ever mined throughout human history. In order to go back to a gold standard now, you'd have to seriously jack up the price of gold.

Can you not take a dollar bill and buy a dollar's worth of silver or gold with it?

Yes, but the gold standard refers to the government having gold in reserve (like in Fort Knox) that is equal in value to all of the money that it prints. That hasn't been true for a long time.

 

[teemu]

Can you not take a dollar bill and buy a dollar's worth of silver or gold with it?

no...because the dollar we have is no longer worth a dollar anymore...that is whats called inflation...the dollar is not backed by gold or silver and goes back to printing tons of money...it devalues our currency

back when our money was backed by gold...a buck was worth a buck and bought alot of things ....remember your grandparents would tell you they bought a loath of bread for a quarter? well the dollar was worth a dollar then
gold is money! always was, has and will be...gold is for kings and silver is for the working man

 

[KitFisto]

Gold and Silver remain valuable because there is a limited supply of it and it's not easy to go and get. You can't just "make more". You can print money hand over fist. That's why paper money can lose value while gold and silver won't.

 

[teemu]

When I say it's imaginary, I mean that it's only got value because we think it has value. So in that sense both gold/silver and paper have imaginary value (paper more than gold, since at least it has some uses, but it's not as if there is some intrinsic property of gold that makes it worth what we think its worth. Same with diamonds, etc.) I agree that the gold standard was good in the sense that it prevented the government from just printing money whenever it felt like it, but those days are long gone now. If you use the current price of gold, I believe the US economy is already bigger than all of the gold ever mined throughout human history. In order to go back to a gold standard now, you'd have to seriously jack up the price of gold.

your right! which gold should be $2500-3,000 an once according to inflation
but its still goes back to given choice...most people would take a silver dollar vs a dollar bill (s)

 

[nash]

no...because the dollar we have is no longer worth a dollar anymore...that is whats called inflation...the dollar is not backed by gold or silver and goes back to printing tons of money...it devalues our currency

back when our money was backed by gold...a buck was worth a buck and bought alot of things ....remember your grandparents would tell you they bought a loath of bread for a quarter? well the dollar was worth a dollar then
gold is money! always was, has and will be...gold is for kings and silver is for the working man

How does one know how much a 'buck' is supposed to be worth?