Choose your villain -- who's better? Who's badder?
Who's better? JOKER vs DARTH VADER
- Thread starter Wor-Gar
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The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
"Both suck. Theme park villains for kids." - Martin Scorsese
I made this poll to test you. You failed.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Why? I voted for Joker. It's a trick thread anyways because there's only one version of Vader and many versions of the Joker. It dilutes the character, everyone prefers a different version, but there's only one Vader to choose from.
I pick Joker over any villain. The amount of success the characters has had in every medium going back 80 years is unmatched by any other villain. It doesn't matter, SSF is still a safe haven for SW fanboys, so the majority will choose the overrated henchman who turns good and cries in the end.
Your argument is exactly backwards and wrong. If anything, because there's so many iterations of Joker, that should work in his voting favor as there's only one Joker to vote for (no matter the variation). Vader has to go toe-to-toe with many versions of Joker and, as you say, 80 years or exposure versus 40.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Not really, for example, Phoenix (better origin than Annie) and Ledger while better than Vader IMO, don't have the nostalgic factor that Vader has, nor40 years of grown ups who grew up with Vader. Nicholson and Romero do, for some, but are those versions in movies as popular as the SW films? Not really, in fact those version are overshadowed by modern versions. From a legacy stand point, no villain can really compete with Joker, but the character is diluted into video games, comics, animated shows, or even movies, but each of those versions individually might not have the same impact, nostalgia etc...as the same Vader from 3 or 4 films. People can't even agree on which version of Joker is the best. It turns into bitter arguments between Hamill fanboys, Ledger fans, comic fans...so on and so forth. Joker's greatest strength is his ability to be reinvented, but that's also his biggest weakness.
If the AFI were to make a new list of greatest movie villains, we know they will choose only one Vader, but which movie Joker will they pick?
But again, it would only be diluted if I put up a poll with the 10 iterations of the Joker versus Vader. I mean, if 10 people like different Jokers they'll still have to pick the single choice in the poll.
I don't care what version people like, just curious how much Joker love there is around here.
And talk about diluted, Vader has been hit with some bad history and a whiny backstory which dilutes his villainy a whole hell of a lot. He does not stand as tall as he once did.
I don't care what version people like, just curious how much Joker love there is around here.
And talk about diluted, Vader has been hit with some bad history and a whiny backstory which dilutes his villainy a whole hell of a lot. He does not stand as tall as he once did.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
Not all Jokers are equal tho.
I doubt people will think of 5 different versions of the Joker that they like and count that as a single character. Their minds will go straight to their favorite or maybe even the latest version.
Difabio recently stated that his new favorite Joker was Phoenix, and he pointed out how each new iteration makes the previous Jokers look inferior. If he sees this poll and sees the name Joker, he will most likely think of Phoenix as the go to choice, not a collection of Jokers. If that's the case, does a brand new character like Arthur have the same legacy, nostalgia, iconicness as Vader from the OT? No.
I doubt people will think of 5 different versions of the Joker that they like and count that as a single character. Their minds will go straight to their favorite or maybe even the latest version.
Difabio recently stated that his new favorite Joker was Phoenix, and he pointed out how each new iteration makes the previous Jokers look inferior. If he sees this poll and sees the name Joker, he will most likely think of Phoenix as the go to choice, not a collection of Jokers. If that's the case, does a brand new character like Arthur have the same legacy, nostalgia, iconicness as Vader from the OT? No.
Prime Clone
Super Freak
By the same token, can we separate OT Vader from PT Vader or even animated Vader?
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
No need. The people that grew up with the OT don't think of Annie when they think of Vader. I think for a majority of SW fans, there's a distinction between OT and PT, an invisible line that separates them. People who grew with the prequels maybe see Annie and Vader as the same character, I dont know. Animated Vader is technically canon...or it used to be anyways, not sure what the status is now, but the character is more or less the same. There's nothing about it that's drastically different, other than it being animated. It even follows the same continuity, right? Or it used to anyways.
Anyway, Vade is a movie villain. Every other version is mimicking and trying to be consistent with the movie canon.
Joker is primarily and originally a comic character, where consistency and continuity means nothing and does not exist, unfortunately. There's literally no definitive version of the character even in his original source, unlike manga characters.
But the PT Anakin made the OT Vader look inferior.
I don't know, seems like if you a like a couple version of Joker (like Nicholson, Ledger and Phoenix) then rather than dilute that seems to boost the Joker to me -- my poll choice includes all those Jokers... and just one little ol' Vader. Don't be so afraid Joker will lose. And the separation of 'comic fan' and 'movie fan' has become a very narrow fissure so that's no excuse.
Anyway, Polls are Gods voice so we'll see who wins.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
But the PT Anakin made the OT Vader look inferior.
I don't know, seems like if you a like a couple version of Joker (like Nicholson, Ledger and Phoenix) then rather than dilute that seems to boost the Joker to me -- my poll choice includes all those Jokers... and just one little ol' Vader. Don't be so afraid Joker will lose. And the separation of 'comic fan' and 'movie fan' has become a very narrow fissure so that's no excuse.
Anyway, Polls are Gods voice so we'll see who wins.
I told you who's going to win.
But by how much?
A small town crook dressed as a clown v the most powerful sith in all the cosmos...
No contest
No contest
Prime Clone
Super Freak
Vader is my favourite but I voted Joker.
As a villain Vader is conflicted, which is his weakness.
As a villain Vader is conflicted, which is his weakness.
When I think of Vader I think of Empire Strikes Back Vader.. Nobody is badder than ESB Vader.
Except ANH Vader who tortured Princess Leia, watched Alderaan being destroyed without a care, personally killed Captain Antilles, Obi Wan Kenobi and a number of rebel starfighter pilots.
Prime Clone
Super Freak
Not even RO Vader?
Actually RO Vader is a sign of the times - nothing can be left to suggestion anymore, we have to actually see the carnage.
Definitely the cruelest of all the Vaders.
Just choking Antilles live, tossing him aside and then yelling at his men is proof enough. He never yells.
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