Why was Qui-Gon Jinn, NOT in Revenge of the sith?

[IrishJedi]

I don't understand why this whole thing with Qui-Gon was thrown in to explain the "ghosts" to begin with. We already know they can show up as ghosts because of the Force. Why spell it out in detail only to end up with the same answer? That's one of the problems with the PT, it has to overexplain everything.

True. But the other big problem is that it not only overexplains things... it often overexplains THE WRONG things.

 

[The Josh]

I don't have a problem with how the PT explains things. For me they tend to explain things and make it clear but then again I don't sit there and study it all. I just ENJOY it as it comes on screen.

 

[Memnoch]

In 30 or 40 years when they need to milk the movies by "remaking them" I'd love to see them change some things around, keep the same basic key but make it one cohesive six part story. But for now, I enjoy Star Wars warts and all.

PS - in the remake, I'd still keep Jar Jar.

 

[pixletwin]

I don't have a problem with how the PT explains things. For me they tend to explain things and make it clear but then again I don't sit there and study it all. I just ENJOY it as it comes on screen.

We should all be grateful that it didn't end with that animal Ewan was riding passing gas as he rode of into the twin sunset.

Really I like Owen and Beru at the end. It sort of gives the saga a feeling of passing from one group of characters to a new cast and a new age.

 

[MaulFan]

kudos to George for being open to his feedback.

That's the problem, George is flexible, but too many PT actors didn't test his flexibility enough.

 

[IrishJedi]

We should all be grateful that it didn't end with that animal Ewan was riding passing gas as he rode of into the twin sunset.

That was actually one of my fears when I saw ROTS for the first time. I was like, "Oh no, that's one of those stupid farting camel things!"

 

[MaulFan]

I think Lucas dropped a HUGE ball with the last shot of ROTS by having it be the Lars and baby Luke looking oout of the twin suns. Sure, it's a bit nostalgic for those who know ANH (and the Luke shot) intimately, but it actually doesn't make sense at all in the narrative. Instead, it should have been Obi-Wan looking out into the Tatooine distance after dropping off the "new hope" to the Lars. And why would Owen be looking out at the sunset and the future ala Luke anyway? He's not a dreamer... he's a grumpy pragmatist!

Plus, Obi-Wan is one of the key figures of the PT and is the major foil in getting things started for Luke in ANH. A closing shot with him would have been the perfect bridge between not only the 2 movies, but the trilogies. And for those watching the saga chronologically, exactly why are they supposed to feel anything for the Lars and newborn Luke?

Huge missed opportunity, imho. But just one of many, sadly.

Ya, that scene, if you examine the saga from Ep 1-6, is a little off, it's too much of a fan nod and influenced too much by what has already happened and wasn't looked at as "hey, some viewers don't get the significance of this shot".

Being and Obi-Wan fan and all, I agree it would have been a powerful last shot to have Obi-Wan more focused on, looking back on the lars homestead with a look of wonder about just what the his fate and the galaxies would be.

Still my favorite shot of ROTS.

 

[Agent0028]

The idea of using Obi-Wan holding Luke and looking out at the sunset is a good one, but I prefer it being Owen. I'm not sure why, I'll have to think about it and see if I can figure out why.

My opinion about the reason for explaining the Force ghost in the PT is because Lucas wanted there to be a little bit of mystery, a revelation for us to wonder about at the end of TPM. As I recall alot of people wondered why didn't Qui-Gon fade away. And then Lucas explained it, but it wasn't quite satisfying as satisfying.

 

[MaulFan]

That's what gets me with the explanation of the spirit trick. Lucas may have intentionally not done it with Qui-Gon, but it felt like after that decision he realized "****, people are going to wonder why he didn't, I'll figure out how to explain it later." I'd feel better if he planned the whole story arc for the spirit explanation from day 1 with TPM. Most of the time I don't do well when films with sequels make things up as they go instead of having it though out from the start. Like Dooku, I think Lucas sort of had a post-Maul plan, but hadn't firmed it up. Had he known that, I think we would have seen Dooku as a Jedi in TPM, which would have been kinda cool, adds impact to his falling out if you know where he came from.

 

[IrishJedi]

The idea of using Obi-Wan holding Luke and looking out at the sunset is a good one, but I prefer it being Owen. I'm not sure why, I'll have to think about it and see if I can figure out why.

It's because you're an OT fan and have that knowledge and intimacy going in. And while that's a legitimate reason, it's not the right one... because it's contrived.

Again, I ask... when people watch these films 1-6 in the future with NO preconceptions (which is what Lucas wants them to do) then why do they care about Owen?

 

[pixletwin]

I always figured that if you are self taught in retaining your consciousness in the force, the moment where you learn occurs at some point soon after death while the soul is in transition... whereas if you are taught it while still living the moment of death becomes the moment of transition.

 

[Agent0028]

Yeah, I agree Maulfan. I think that is my biggest criticism of the PT, it felt like he made it up as he went along.

And I'm glad to know that I have the ability to have a wrongly contrived legitimate opinion.

 

[pixletwin]

Again, I ask... when people watch these films 1-6 in the future with NO preconceptions why do they care about Owen?

Its because of the humility he instilled in Luke that Luke is able to ultimately forget his own self interest and submit to Palpatine's force lightning.

 

[IrishJedi]

And I'm glad to know that I have the ability to have a wrongly contrived legitimate opinion.

Hahaha! No, you're not contrived. It's the notion that the viewer should know and care about Owen at all that's contrived, because Lucas' intent (now) is for future audiences to view the saga chronologically. Most people will think, "Why do we need to care about that stepbrother punk that we saw for 2 seconds in AOTC?"

 

[IrishJedi]

Its because of the humility he instilled in Luke that Luke is able to ultimately forget his own self interest and submit to Palpatine's force lightning.

So the future audiences are going to be able to extract that without having seen 4-6???

 

[pixletwin]

So the future audiences are going to be able to extract that without having seen 4-6???

You said 1-6. and yes. I got that at the age of 12.

 

[IrishJedi]

You said 1-6.

Right. Chronologically.

 

[The Josh]

We should all be grateful that it didn't end with that animal Ewan was riding passing gas as he rode of into the twin sunset.

Really I like Owen and Beru at the end. It sort of gives the saga a feeling of passing from one group of characters to a new cast and a new age.

That makes me think of something from Blazzing Saddles.

I agree with ya though as it does give me that type of feeling. Kind of a nice tie between the two parts of the Saga.

It's because you're an OT fan and have that knowledge and intimacy going in. And while that's a legitimate reason, it's not the right one... because it's contrived.

Again, I ask... when people watch these films 1-6 in the future with NO preconceptions (which is what Lucas wants them to do) then why do they care about Owen?

I know you said he's not contrived but its his right to feel that way. Be it contrived from Lucas or not and honestly I feel the same way he does.

In the end if Lucas makes a 1k changes and I'm ok with then that's cool. If it makes the story flow and ties things up then .

As far as why we should care about Owen? Well, how about he's taking care of someone could help save the future. Good enough 4 me.

 

[Agent0028]

Hahaha! No, you're not contrived. It's the notion that the viewer should know and care about Owen at all that's contrived, because Lucas' intent (now) is for future audiences to view the saga chronologically. Most people will think, "Why do we need to care about that stepbrother punk that we saw for 2 seconds in AOTC?"

Yeah I know I was just teasing. But you did give me some insight about the order Lucas intends people to watch them, I was thinking of it as if Lucas wants people to see 4-6 and then 1-3.

 

[Agent0028]

I know you said he's not contrived but its his right to feel that way. Be it contrived from Lucas or not and honestly I feel the same way he does.

I think that's what he means by legitimate. I think his phrasing just makes it sound a little strange, that's why I was teasing him for it.