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[Spidey976]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Considering the medium, no, I do not think there are real levels of education for understanding comic book characters. The problem is the nature of how they work. Because of changes in writing and art styles, and I will be blunt here, there is little consistency among characters over the years. Truth be told you can hate Wonder Woman in one comic run, love her the next. Really enjoy her portrayal in a cartoon and then hate how she was handled in a movie. Unlike with a normal string of novels or even just anime and manga, just about anyone can have a "canon" incarnation of a comic book character regardless of how radically different, such as Frank Miller's version of pretty much any character.

As far as I am concerned you need only be exposed to that character to decide if you enjoy him/her. Bale's Batman is very different from New 52 Batman, but I think someone need only watch Batman Begins to be able to say something like "I love Batman." If this was a consistent tale like Lord of the Rings, obviously one should have more information on the characters before declaring such.

For example, I grew to love Shazam based solely on seeing him in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. I had never been exposed to him prior, but when I saw him shout Shazam and strike the opponent with lightning, I thought it was awesome. Since then I've seen a few appearances of him in comics and clips from cartoons on youtube, but I will still firmly tell you he's my favorite male DC character based on that little information I have on him. I really enjoy his design and think his base concept is so true to the spirit of classic comic books and I really enjoy that aspect of the character. I don't need seventy years of comic book experience to tell you I like Captain Marvel a bunch.

So yeah Comic Book Guy is going to miss out on some details here and there, but who cares? Nick Fury is black in the live actions and Ultimate universe so why would it be a shock to see him believe Wonder Woman is Asian? Hell next month they could kill her off and replace her with a Mexican version, or just retcon her identity AGAIN so that she was actually Stalin's daughter.

Comic books are fickle, inconsistent, and lack real continuity so people cannot relate it to something like human anatomy LOL that's an awful comparison.

The Superman/Shazam Return of Black Adam movie is awesome, and so is Th Justice League Unlimited Episode: Clash... If you love Shazam they are a lot of fun, and the movie tells a GREAT Rendition of Captain Marvel's origin. Assuming you haven't seen them or course. Here is a clip.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PQH-_23nWQg&feature=fvwrel[/ame]

 

[Monger]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

I plan to check it out soon since it's still on Netflix, but thanks for mentioning it

The New 52 Justice League 0 issue was one of my favorite New 52 issues so far as it was all about Shazam.

 

[Josh-A-Tron]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Considering the medium, no, I do not think there are real levels of education for understanding comic book characters. The problem is the nature of how they work. Because of changes in writing and art styles, and I will be blunt here, there is little consistency among characters over the years. Truth be told you can hate Wonder Woman in one comic run, love her the next. Really enjoy her portrayal in a cartoon and then hate how she was handled in a movie. Unlike with a normal string of novels or even just anime and manga, just about anyone can have a "canon" incarnation of a comic book character regardless of how radically different, such as Frank Miller's version of pretty much any character.

As far as I am concerned you need only be exposed to that character to decide if you enjoy him/her. Bale's Batman is very different from New 52 Batman, but I think someone need only watch Batman Begins to be able to say something like "I love Batman." If this was a consistent tale like Lord of the Rings, obviously one should have more information on the characters before declaring such.

For example, I grew to love Shazam based solely on seeing him in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. I had never been exposed to him prior, but when I saw him shout Shazam and strike the opponent with lightning, I thought it was awesome. Since then I've seen a few appearances of him in comics and clips from cartoons on youtube, but I will still firmly tell you he's my favorite male DC character based on that little information I have on him. I really enjoy his design and think his base concept is so true to the spirit of classic comic books and I really enjoy that aspect of the character. I don't need seventy years of comic book experience to tell you I like Captain Marvel a bunch.

So yeah Comic Book Guy is going to miss out on some details here and there, but who cares? Nick Fury is black in the live actions and Ultimate universe so why would it be a shock to see him believe Wonder Woman is Asian? Hell next month they could kill her off and replace her with a Mexican version, or just retcon her identity AGAIN so that she was actually Stalin's daughter.

Comic books are fickle, inconsistent, and lack real continuity so people cannot relate it to something like human anatomy LOL that's an awful comparison.

You do realize that everything you just said constitutes the History of the character. Granted, characters change from artist/writer to artist/writer but over all, thanks to the editorial process, we have characters with ages or chapters if you will. The characters and there personalities remain consistent for periods of time and then change, usually with the change of social convention.

For example Wonder Woman started out very much a pin-up/cupcake type character with little or no real basis in what we consider amazonian myth even though that was her origin. If this were the same character today as it was in the 40's would we all like her as much as we do? Probably not. This changed gradually and over time as writers decided to use reference from greek myth to mold her personality and surroundings.

My favorite iteration is Greg Rucka's take on her.

I would not say comics are "Fickle or inconsistant" but they much like almost any writing changes with the times. However, I highly doubt anyone is going to make Wonder Woman Asian or Mexican unless they kill her and then completely redo the origin. In which case you then have to decide if you still like the character. Even so, saying something like that is a bit overboard and completely unrealistic even for comics.

Maybe Anatomy was a bit outlandish as far as education goes, How about History, since that changes with each new tomb we seem to unearth. Remember not that long ago people thought Christopher Columbus discovered America and Kathrine the Great was thin and of good Character.

Things change as we educate ourselves more, read more...or we could stay blissfully ignorant.

 

[csi]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Considering the medium, no, I do not think there are real levels of education for understanding comic book characters. The problem is the nature of how they work. Because of changes in writing and art styles, and I will be blunt here, there is little consistency among characters over the years. Truth be told you can hate Wonder Woman in one comic run, love her the next. Really enjoy her portrayal in a cartoon and then hate how she was handled in a movie. Unlike with a normal string of novels or even just anime and manga, just about anyone can have a "canon" incarnation of a comic book character regardless of how radically different, such as Frank Miller's version of pretty much any character.

As far as I am concerned you need only be exposed to that character to decide if you enjoy him/her. Bale's Batman is very different from New 52 Batman, but I think someone need only watch Batman Begins to be able to say something like "I love Batman." If this was a consistent tale like Lord of the Rings, obviously one should have more information on the characters before declaring such.

For example, I grew to love Shazam based solely on seeing him in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. I had never been exposed to him prior, but when I saw him shout Shazam and strike the opponent with lightning, I thought it was awesome. Since then I've seen a few appearances of him in comics and clips from cartoons on youtube, but I will still firmly tell you he's my favorite male DC character based on that little information I have on him. I really enjoy his design and think his base concept is so true to the spirit of classic comic books and I really enjoy that aspect of the character. I don't need seventy years of comic book experience to tell you I like Captain Marvel a bunch.

So yeah Comic Book Guy is going to miss out on some details here and there, but who cares? Nick Fury is black in the live actions and Ultimate universe so why would it be a shock to see him believe Wonder Woman is Asian? Hell next month they could kill her off and replace her with a Mexican version, or just retcon her identity AGAIN so that she was actually Stalin's daughter.

Comic books are fickle, inconsistent, and lack real continuity so people cannot relate it to something like human anatomy LOL that's an awful comparison.

most educated post so far on the topic

 

[Spidey976]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

I plan to check it out soon since it's still on Netflix, but thanks for mentioning it

The New 52 Justice League 0 issue was one of my favorite New 52 issues so far as it was all about Shazam.

Again I HIGHLY recommend both, and if you haven't read it yet picking up Kingdom Come. The movie is nly like 30mins, but it is pure gold, and Though Kingdom Come is primarily a Superman story Captain Marvels Roll is AWESOME.

You do realize that everything you just said constitutes the History of the character. Granted, characters change from artist/writer to artist/writer but over all, thanks to the editorial process, we have characters with ages or chapters if you will. The characters and there personalities remain consistent for periods of time and then change, usually with the change of social convention.

For example Wonder Woman started out very much a pin-up/cupcake type character with little or no real basis in what we consider amazonian myth even though that was her origin. If this were the same character today as it was in the 40's would we all like her as much as we do? Probably not. This changed gradually and over time as writers decided to use reference from greek myth to mold her personality and surroundings.

My favorite iteration is Greg Rucka's take on her.

I would not say comics are "Fickle or inconsistant" but they much like almost any writing changes with the times. However, I highly doubt anyone is going to make Wonder Woman Asian or Mexican unless they kill her and then completely redo the origin. In which case you then have to decide if you still like the character. Even so, saying something like that is a bit overboard and completely unrealistic even for comics.

Maybe Anatomy was a bit outlandish as far as education goes, How about History, since that changes with each new tomb we seem to unearth. Remember not that long ago people thought Christopher Columbus discovered America and Kathrine the Great was thin and of good Character.

Things change as we educate ourselves more, read more...or we could stay blissfully ignorant.

I remember when I first discovered the work of Dale Keown and Jim Lee back in the early 90s it totally changed my whole way of looking at comic book art. I followed both of them from then on, and though I don't have all of their sequential work I have most f it since then. I have dne the same for many artists over the year some I have been actually lucky enough to learn from. For me I love education, and learning, and while comicbook characters are constantly shifting they are ALWAYS fun to learn about. Well almost always... Spiderman and Brand New Day was/is *****.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Comic books are fickle, inconsistent, and lack real continuity so people cannot relate it to something like human anatomy LOL that's an awful comparison.

Interesting conversation here csi, monger and josh. I'd have to agree with the above too at least so far as superhero comics from DC and Marvel. I read select stories from my fave MARVEL/DC characters but would never consider subscribing/buying every book for every character. What would be awesome is if they had the ***** to actually finish one of these characters, too much money to be made I suppose (I don't blame em for that) but the constant different interpretations and universe reboots etc are a bit ****ing much IMO, its no wonder new people have a look and then put it in the 'too hard' basket.

 

[Spidey976]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Interesting conversation here csi, monger and josh. I'd have to agree with the above too at least so far as superhero comics from DC and Marvel. I read select stories from my fave MARVEL/DC characters but would never consider subscribing/buying every book for every character. What would be awesome is if they had the ***** to actually finish one of these characters, too much money to be made I suppose (I don't blame em for that) but the constant different interpretations and universe reboots etc are a bit ****ing much IMO, its no wonder new people have a look and then put it in the 'too hard' basket.

The universe reboots are meant for the new people though. That is why they do them, so that fans don't have to read through 40 years of back story to understand it all. The New52 was suppose to be a COMPLETE reboot from start to finish, but it is as confusing as all **** because Morisson and John's wouldn't allow their titles to be rebooted because the had so many plans for them. Which ends up half assed origins in the Bats and GL universe where certain things happened, but others didn't. Now that is to much work for most people to work there way through.

 

[csi]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

The universe reboots are meant for the new people though. That is why they do them, so that fans don't have to read through 40 years of back story to understand it all. The New52 was suppose to be a COMPLETE reboot from start to finish, but it is as confusing as all **** because Morisson and John's wouldn't allow their titles to be rebooted because the had so many plans for them. Which ends up half assed origins in the Bats and GL universe where certain things happened, but others didn't. Now that is to much work for most people to work there way through.

and every time they reboot they lose a bunch of readers too. I would still be buying 5 or 6 titles if they would have just kept putting out great stories with the characters I love. But they do these stupid megabook crossovers, or feel they need to kill off a character or two, it gets ridiculous after awhile. Then throw in the reboots and I'm done.

 

[Spidey976]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

and every time they reboot they lose a bunch of readers too. I would still be buying 5 or 6 titles if they would have just kept putting out great stories with the characters I love. But they do these stupid megabook crossovers, or feel they need to kill off a character or two, it gets ridiculous after awhile. Then throw in the reboots and I'm done.

Yeah and the killed character thing NEVER sticks... And the work that went into the reboot is ALWAYS undone eventually. The whole Earth 1 nad 2 thing was done because of the Silver Age reboot, and then came Crisis of Infinite Earths, then Infinite Crisis, then Final Crisis, and finally FlashPoint and the New52... In the end when the dust settles and the sales for the New52 begin to flag... BOOM some Crisis will either UNDO the whole thing or at least establish that the regular DC UNiverse has been going quietly on ward in a Heroes Reborn type scenario. We've seen these moves before... But I can see how it might be better tpfor the new fans. However, I agree csi they are losing a lot of the fans.

 

[Josh-A-Tron]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Interesting conversation here csi, monger and josh. I'd have to agree with the above too at least so far as superhero comics from DC and Marvel. I read select stories from my fave MARVEL/DC characters but would never consider subscribing/buying every book for every character. What would be awesome is if they had the ***** to actually finish one of these characters, too much money to be made I suppose (I don't blame em for that) but the constant different interpretations and universe reboots etc are a bit ****ing much IMO, its no wonder new people have a look and then put it in the 'too hard' basket.

I'll be honest, I think it was much easier to understand before 2008. When they did Infinite/FinalCrisis and Then The New 52 all so close together it was a complete cluster ****. All in the name of new readers, even though they were consistantly getting new readers before that because comic shops could tell them essential reading for which ever character they were interested. Now, what do you tell a person? "well you could read all this, but the new 52 completely undoes it all and convoluted the characters history so I guess you read that but you really won't get a sense of the characters accomplishments."

I'm sure that's an easy sell.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

the writing these days isn't as good as it once was either

 

[Spidey976]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

I'll be honest, I think it was much easier to understand before 2008. When they did Infinite/FinalCrisis and Then The New 52 all so close together it was a complete cluster ****. All in the name of new readers, even though they were consistantly getting new readers before that because comic shops could tell them essential reading for which ever character they were interested. Now, what do you tell a person? "well you could read all this, but the new 52 completely undoes it all and convoluted the characters history so I guess you read that but you really won't get a sense of the characters accomplishments."

I'm sure that's an easy sell.

 

[BurningRage]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Considering the medium, no, I do not think there are real levels of education for understanding comic book characters. The problem is the nature of how they work. Because of changes in writing and art styles, and I will be blunt here, there is little consistency among characters over the years. Truth be told you can hate Wonder Woman in one comic run, love her the next. Really enjoy her portrayal in a cartoon and then hate how she was handled in a movie. Unlike with a normal string of novels or even just anime and manga, just about anyone can have a "canon" incarnation of a comic book character regardless of how radically different, such as Frank Miller's version of pretty much any character.

As far as I am concerned you need only be exposed to that character to decide if you enjoy him/her. Bale's Batman is very different from New 52 Batman, but I think someone need only watch Batman Begins to be able to say something like "I love Batman." If this was a consistent tale like Lord of the Rings, obviously one should have more information on the characters before declaring such.

For example, I grew to love Shazam based solely on seeing him in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. I had never been exposed to him prior, but when I saw him shout Shazam and strike the opponent with lightning, I thought it was awesome. Since then I've seen a few appearances of him in comics and clips from cartoons on youtube, but I will still firmly tell you he's my favorite male DC character based on that little information I have on him. I really enjoy his design and think his base concept is so true to the spirit of classic comic books and I really enjoy that aspect of the character. I don't need seventy years of comic book experience to tell you I like Captain Marvel a bunch.

So yeah Comic Book Guy is going to miss out on some details here and there, but who cares? Nick Fury is black in the live actions and Ultimate universe so why would it be a shock to see him believe Wonder Woman is Asian? Hell next month they could kill her off and replace her with a Mexican version, or just retcon her identity AGAIN so that she was actually Stalin's daughter.

Comic books are fickle, inconsistent, and lack real continuity so people cannot relate it to something like human anatomy LOL that's an awful comparison.

That sounds like 90% of Iron Man fans

 

[Monger]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

I'll be honest, I think it was much easier to understand before 2008. When they did Infinite/FinalCrisis and Then The New 52 all so close together it was a complete cluster ****. All in the name of new readers, even though they were consistantly getting new readers before that because comic shops could tell them essential reading for which ever character they were interested. Now, what do you tell a person? "well you could read all this, but the new 52 completely undoes it all and convoluted the characters history so I guess you read that but you really won't get a sense of the characters accomplishments."

I'm sure that's an easy sell.

Thats true, I mean all my comics are trades of certain storylines that I've thought look cool or its an artist or writer that I dig so I'll always get his stuff. These days actually I read comics almost exclusively on my tablet thru comixology coz its just so much cheaper, comics here get a significant mark up after they're shipped from the US and 99c issues of Danger Girl is practically making money!

 

[csi]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

Thats true, I mean all my comics are trades of certain storylines that I've thought look cool or its an artist or writer that I dig so I'll always get his stuff. These days actually I read comics almost exclusively on my tablet thru comixology coz its just so much cheaper, comics here get a significant mark up after they're shipped from the US and 99c issues of Danger Girl is practically making money!

I read them on my tablet as well. Matter of fact, it was the main reason I got it. I got sick of stacks and stacks of comic boxes laying around the house.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

At ur table? That's a good spot to read bro

sorry mate!

 

[csi]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

At ur table? That's a good spot to read bro

sorry mate!

I have no idea what your talking about


as it was I was in the doctors office with a splitting sinus headache and a nurse about to stab me in the azz with three needles, so needless to say I wasn't concentrating quite as well as I should have been

 

[brucecamblzchin]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

that sucks dude.

 

[comicbookguy]

Re: Wonder Woman for late 2013

WW defeated? Wow she got beat up pretty bad.... what happen? never seen this before. Even supes can't beat her like this. Maybe this could be an exclusive limited to 150? Would be kind of different huh?