X-Men: Apocalypse - May 27, 2016

[kryptonianmutie]

"Contrarian! We've got a contrarian here!"

See nobody cares.

 

[pturtle]

Eh, I've got low standards. I mean, I've seen ROTS like, 30 times or so. I'm an easy man to please. I like Matthew Brodderick for ****'s sake! Kidding aside though, I rated it as a fun, enjoyable CBM, not just as a movie. The Quicksilver scene, Fassbender and the 3D-Boob Windows make it a 7/10 on the "I spent an enjoyable afternoon" scale. But as a regular movie, it has many problems. Plot holes, cheesy writting, motivations that make no sense, stuff like that. And besides, I always start high and then fall. I rated BvS a 7/10 at first too, but now it's more like a 5/10 for me.

Matthew Broderick is the man

To me, all the issues you listed came from the last 40 minutes or so, before that it seemed like it was going to be another solid Bryan Singer X-Men film. I think Singer tried catering a bit too much to the superhero crowd with this one and lost sight of what actually makes his X-Men films good. Its like he advised Joss Whedon before making this movie.

 

[Victοr]

Matthew Broderick is the man

To me, all the issues you listed came from the last 40 minutes or so, before that it seemed like it was going to be another solid Bryan Singer X-Men film. I think Singer tried catering a bit too much to the superhero crowd with this one and lost sight of what actually makes his X-Men films good. Its like he advised Joss Whedon before making this movie.

Eh, not really. From what I remember:

1) Where did Apocalypse get all that tech from? When he first see him, he's old, but it's still the time of ancient Egypt, and he was born around that time. By taking over various mutants he takes their powers, but it still doesn't make sense how he has in his disposal tech, hell, even materials, that are years beyond even our time.

2) J-Stique being turned into an icon, and the movie taking reminding us of that constantly. As a comic book reader this bugs the hell out of me, as Mystique was always a villain, apart from certain situations where she allied herself with the angels (usually concerning Rogue or Destiny). Besides that, J-Law phones it in and delivers a bland performance.

3) Magneto's heel turn. It was obviously an accident, and the officers came there to arrest him for his murderous acts. If they wanted to make it more believable, they should've gone with the comic story-line. As it stands, it's a relatively weak motivation for trying to destroy the whole damn world.

4) The cheese exists throughout the whole film. "It's a matter of national pride", "I saw the end of the world", lines such as these are so cliche and bland, they take you out of the film. As for bad writting, Quicksilver taking his sweet time and managing to save everyone but Havok, is just an excuse to write Alex out and make space for Scott. Which, I'm not complaining mind you, but it is jarring.

As for the final act, I won't even get to it. Bland CGI, another sudden heel turn, Pietro/Peter's dillema, awful choreography, and Magneto being pardoned by the whole world makes no goddamn sense, at all. Again, this is not a bad cbm, but it's mediocre movie. I wouldn't put it anywhere near CW, TWS, TFA, IM, GotG or the like. But different strokes for different folks and all.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

3) Magneto's heel turn.

 

[pturtle]

Eh, not really. From what I remember:

1) Where did Apocalypse get all that tech from? When he first see him, he's old, but it's still the time of ancient Egypt, and he was born around that time. By taking over various mutants he takes their powers, but it still doesn't make sense how he has in his disposal tech, hell, even materials, that are years beyond even our time.

That didn’t really bother me at all, but I’m guessing the explanation got cut. I remember like a year ago Singer tweeting concept art showing off Ship and the celestials and all that. I feel like any casual movie goer will just chalk it up to being one of Apocalypse’s powers.

2) J-Stique being turned into an icon, and the movie taking reminding us of that constantly. As a comic book reader this bugs the hell out of me, as Mystique was always a villain, apart from certain situations where she allied herself with the angels (usually concerning Rogue or Destiny). Besides that, J-Law phones it in and delivers a bland performance.

Thats probably my main beef with the movie, her whole story felt forced in. I don’t think she phoned it in though, she was equally as bad in DOFP and even worse in FC. She really has plagued this trilogy though.

3) Magneto's heel turn. It was obviously an accident, and the officers came there to arrest him for his murderous acts. If they wanted to make it more believable, they should've gone with the comic story-line. As it stands, it's a relatively weak motivation for trying to destroy the whole damn world.

Eh, maybe it could have been done slightly better but it was no worse than Scarlett Witch conveniently losing control of her powers and murdering everyone in the beginning of Civil War which basically kickstarts the registration act.

Actually a better comparison would be Tony’s heel turn at the end of CW, except it makes less sense for Tony because he’s a good guy, and trying to kill his peers. Magneto was never really a good guy, and he’s obviously not a fan of human beings, so him killing some random people for accidentally killing his family is not out of character, what Tony was doing in CW was in my opinion.


4) The cheese exists throughout the whole film. "It's a matter of national pride", "I saw the end of the world", lines such as these are so cliche and bland, they take you out of the film. As for bad writting, Quicksilver taking his sweet time and managing to save everyone but Havok, is just an excuse to write Alex out and make space for Scott. Which, I'm not complaining mind you, but it is jarring.

This movie seemed to have the same amount of cheese as any other superhero film. Alex was closest to the blast and I think he was already like in the fire before QS showed up but I do agree it felt like a bit of a copout, if anything they should have saved his death for the end, even though I would have preferred he lived. I like Lucas Till in the role.

As for the final act, I won't even get to it. Bland CGI, another sudden heel turn, Pietro/Peter's dillema, awful choreography, and Magneto being pardoned by the whole world makes no goddamn sense, at all. Again, this is not a bad cbm, but it's mediocre movie. I wouldn't put it anywhere near CW, TWS, TFA, IM, GotG or the like. But different strokes for different folks and all.

I agree with you on the final act, no argument there

I think the good in Apocalypse is far better than anything in the movies you listed, but the bad is far worse than anything in those movies, but yea, I’m just not a fan of MCU movies post Iron Man 1.

 

[jye4ever]

I'll witness Mel Gibson convert to Judaism before I lay witness to pturtle liking an MCU movie post IM1.

 

[pturtle]

I'll witness Mel Gibson convert to Judaism before I lay witness to pturtle liking an MCU post IM1.

I liked Civil War, Winter Soldier and GOTG but I just found them to be forgettable. I just feel like they pale in comparison to superhero movies we’ve scene a decade ago, and my problem is that you pretty much know what you’re getting with these films. They take no risks, and they don’t even try to be groundbreaking. All they have to be is faithful enough to the source material, and entertaining enough for 2 hours and fans are happy. Now we’re getting like 3 of those movies per year, I just don’t know how people can maintain excitement for these movies. What scares me is how successful these movies are because they’re influencing other studios to do the same, now everything is about universe building and serialized storytelling which to me limits what a writer/director can do with these films now.

 

[Xenoburger_]

That was amazing.

 

[Victοr]

that didn’t really bother me at all, but i’m guessing the explanation got cut. I remember like a year ago singer tweeting concept art showing off ship and the celestials and all that. I feel like any casual movie goer will just chalk it up to being one of apocalypse’s powers.

Still, it doesn't stop being a plot hole. I don't think there's a "super-genius who can also create new materials from scratch" super-power. It's not explained and it's a massive hole.

thats probably my main beef with the movie, her whole story felt forced in. I don’t think she phoned it in though, she was equally as bad in dofp and even worse in fc. She really has plagued this trilogy though.

So she's awful in everything then? Eh, at least she wore that tight dress in the club...

eh, maybe it could have been done slightly better but it was no worse than scarlett witch conveniently losing control of her powers and murdering everyone in the beginning of civil war which basically kickstarts the registration act.

Not really. Wanda is still inexperienced and can't really control her powers. Add the stress and the fact that Crossbones straight up caught on fire, and it's not too out of the ordinary. Meanwhile, Magneto is arrested because he, oh I don't know, dropped a stadium and tried to kill the POTUS, and when his daughter and wife (conviniently) die from an accident, he goes all "I shall destroy the world !!111!". Which, again, makes no sense, as Magneto is the kind of guy who'll stick up for all mutants, not just the strong ones. It's what makes him different from Apocalypse. It's not too jarring, I mean, his wife and child did die, but instead of thinking that hey, if he hadn't been a bad guy all this time, maybe things would've turned out better.

this movie seemed to have the same amount of cheese as any other superhero film. Alex was closest to the blast and i think he was already like in the fire before qs showed up but i do agree it felt like a bit of a copout, if anything they should have saved his death for the end, even though i would have preferred he lived. I like lucas till in the role.

Eh, it still reeks of "we need space for the most interesting Summers brother". Which, again, I'm not complaining, I love Cyclops, especially Post-Schism Summers, but it was still badly done.

i agree with you on the final act, no argument there

Good, that final act was awful.

i think the good in apocalypse is far better than anything in the movies you listed, but the bad is far worse than anything in those movies, but yea, i’m just not a fan of mcu movies post iron man 1.

Yeah, well, I've got to respectfully disagree. As a comic book fan, the MCU is exactly what I've always wanted. Sure, they're not marvels of cinema, but then again, neither are the DC or the Fox stuff, they're just action movies. I'll take the MCU any day, every day over black-leather Fox-Men. The X-Men were and are super-heroes. Hell, they've spent most of their time battling aliens, ancient mutants and ****ing demons from Hell. The whole allegory for minorities thing had some basis in the 80s, but having such a big emphasis on it is a relatively new phenomenon.

Back in the day, we had Noseless Wolverine and British Betsy Braddock swapping bodies with a Japanese Ninja, and Havok dressing up in S&M gear, because the ex wife of Scott (who's the clone of his first love, for whom he dumped her and his son for) went cuckoo and started summoning demons and ****. The X-Men are as much comic book-y as the Avengers, the Justice League and the Thunderbolts. Heck, the whole reason the X-Men exist is because Stan wanted a simple explaination for new powers, and couldn't bother to come up with dozens of new stories. Hence, the whole "they're born with them, now **** off" thing.

 

[pturtle]

Still, it doesn't stop being a plot hole. I don't think there's a "super-genius who can also create new materials from scratch" super-power. It's not explained and it's a massive hole.

To me, the film seem to imply that Apocalypse throughout the years stole a lot of powers, so that just one of them, its not a great explanation but its not really that bad in my opinion.




Not really. Wanda is still inexperienced and can't really control her powers. Add the stress and the fact that Crossbones straight up caught on fire, and it's not too out of the ordinary. Meanwhile, Magneto is arrested because he, oh I don't know, dropped a stadium and tried to kill the POTUS, and when his daughter and wife (conviniently) die from an accident, he goes all "I shall destroy the world !!111!". Which, again, makes no sense, as Magneto is the kind of guy who'll stick up for all mutants, not just the strong ones. It's what makes him different from Apocalypse. It's not too jarring, I mean, his wife and child did die, but instead of thinking that hey, if he hadn't been a bad guy all this time, maybe things would've turned out better.

Wanda inexperienced? She was kicking ass from almost every scene in the movie

She was tossing heroes around left and right at the airport, and shut down Vision like it was nothing. But she loses control of Crossbones because she’s inexperienced? Idk, that scene didn’t work for me at all.


Eh, it still reeks of "we need space for the most interesting Summers brother". Which, again, I'm not complaining, I love Cyclops, especially Post-Schism Summers, but it was still badly done.

I don’t think it was badly done, but I would have liked to have seen Havoc go out in a more heroic way.


Good, that final act was awful.

My main problem with it is how disconnected it felt from the rest of the movie..



Yeah, well, I've got to respectfully disagree. As a comic book fan, the MCU is exactly what I've always wanted. Sure, they're not marvels of cinema, but then again, neither are the DC or the Fox stuff, they're just action movies. I'll take the MCU any day, every day over black-leather Fox-Men. The X-Men were and are super-heroes. Hell, they've spent most of their time battling aliens, ancient mutants and ****ing demons from Hell. The whole allegory for minorities thing had some basis in the 80s, but having such a big emphasis on it is a relatively new phenomenon.

Back in the day, we had Noseless Wolverine and British Betsy Braddock swapping bodies with a Japanese Ninja, and Havok dressing up in S&M gear, because the ex wife of Scott (who's the clone of his first love, for whom he dumped her and his son for) went cuckoo and started summoning demons and ****. The X-Men are as much comic book-y as the Avengers, the Justice League and the Thunderbolts. Heck, the whole reason the X-Men exist is because Stan wanted a simple explaination for new powers, and couldn't bother to come up with dozens of new stories. Hence, the whole "they're born with them, now **** off" thing.

And thats why I liked the Singerverse more than 95% of the X-Men comics I’ve read. Thats why God Loves, Man Kills is my favorite X-Men story, it tackles more serious problems.

I disagree with you about Fox and DC though, these days both studios seem to be pumping on less quality than they use to because they’re copying Marvel trying to to reach the same success in less time. But X1 AND X2 definitely have a place in movie history. DC has Superman The Movie, Superman 2, Both Burton Batman flicks, The Nolan Flicks and Sony has Spiderman 1 and 2 and I doubt these movies will ever be forgotten. All those movies I listed were ambitious for their time, and different, and I feel like were a lot more unique compared to what Marvel has been pumping out. 20 years from now, I doubt anyone will be talking about the most of these MCU movies. Half of the movies in the MCU are already forgotten about amongst the general crowd.

 

[Khev]

I liked Civil War, Winter Soldier and GOTG but I just found them to be forgettable. I just feel like they pale in comparison to superhero movies we’ve scene a decade ago, and my problem is that you pretty much know what you’re getting with these films.

Um, what? Compared to five X-Men films where kids learn their powers, face "teh persecution," Xavier tries to convince Magneto not to go too far/join the wrong side, the X-Men have to deal with bad guys while not making themselves look bad to the humans, Magneto lifts something while Wolverine tries to remember his past, runs around mad about Weapon X, and gets his ass kicked? Oh yeah, Stryker walks around all cool because he wants to weaponize the mutants for his own ends. Muahahaha. That is the Fox-men playbook and they do NOT deviate.

By comparison the MCU has had quite a few twists and turns. Tony Stark revealing his identity in film one, the Mandarin, Stark mansion being destroyed along with all his armors, arc reactor removed from his chest (goodbye status quo!), Avengers forming, SHIELD falling, the actual team fracturing with half of them going into hiding in Wakanda, the whole Bucky/Winter Soldier situation (which the Fox universe absolutely has no answer for), etc.

Have we ever seen X-Men Mansion fall? Or the team splitting into two teams? Or Magneto being a total good guy for an entire film? Or Stryker's damn group being put down once and for all? Nope. Status quo through and through.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Um, what? Compared to five X-Men films where kids learn their powers, face "teh persecution," Xavier tries to convince Magneto not to go too far/join the wrong side, the X-Men have to deal with bad guys while not making themselves look bad to the humans, Magneto lifts something while Wolverine tries to remember his past, runs around mad about Weapon X, and gets his ass kicked? Oh yeah, Stryker walks around all cool because he wants to weaponize the mutants for his own ends. Muahahaha. That is the Fox-men playbook and they do NOT deviate.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

LOLZ.

 

[greygoose]

Just got back from seeing this. I really enjoyed it. Yeah it has it's issues but overall it was a fun viewing experience.

 

[jye4ever]

Um, what? Compared to five X-Men films where kids learn their powers, face "teh persecution," Xavier tries to convince Magneto not to go too far/join the wrong side, the X-Men have to deal with bad guys while not making themselves look bad to the humans, Magneto lifts something while Wolverine tries to remember his past, runs around mad about Weapon X, and gets his ass kicked? Oh yeah, Stryker walks around all cool because he wants to weaponize the mutants for his own ends. Muahahaha. That is the Fox-men playbook and they do NOT deviate.

By comparison the MCU has had quite a few twists and turns. Tony Stark revealing his identity in film one, the Mandarin, Stark mansion being destroyed along with all his armors, arc reactor removed from his chest (goodbye status quo!), Avengers forming, SHIELD falling, the actual team fracturing with half of them going into hiding in Wakanda, the whole Bucky/Winter Soldier situation (which the Fox universe absolutely has no answer for), etc.

Have we ever seen X-Men Mansion fall? Or the team splitting into two teams? Or Magneto being a total good guy for an entire film? Or Stryker's damn group being put down once and for all? Nope. Status quo through and through.

Cap's 70 + year arc is tighter than X-Men's 10 year arc.

 

[pturtle]

Um, what? Compared to five X-Men films where kids learn their powers, face "teh persecution," Xavier tries to convince Magneto not to go too far/join the wrong side, the X-Men have to deal with bad guys while not making themselves look bad to the humans, Magneto lifts something while Wolverine tries to remember his past, runs around mad about Weapon X, and gets his ass kicked? Oh yeah, Stryker walks around all cool because he wants to weaponize the mutants for his own ends. Muahahaha. That is the Fox-men playbook and they do NOT deviate.

By comparison the MCU has had quite a few twists and turns. Tony Stark revealing his identity in film one, the Mandarin, Stark mansion being destroyed along with all his armors, arc reactor removed from his chest (goodbye status quo!), Avengers forming, SHIELD falling, the actual team fracturing with half of them going into hiding in Wakanda, the whole Bucky/Winter Soldier situation (which the Fox universe absolutely has no answer for), etc.

Have we ever seen X-Men Mansion fall? Or the team splitting into two teams? Or Magneto being a total good guy for an entire film? Or Stryker's damn group being put down once and for all? Nope. Status quo through and through.

Yes to all of this

The end of FC shows the team being divided.

Magneto was a good guy throughout DOFP

Stryker and his team were put to an end in X2

As for the X-Mansion, I don’t want to spoil anything.

POW!

 

[Khev]

Yes to all of this

The end of FC shows the team being divided.

Magneto was a good guy throughout DOFP

Stryker and his team were put to an end in X2

POW!

Before you added the specifics I assumed that Apocalypse broke new ground. Guess not...

First Class did start to bring us something new but unfortunately that all ended when Singer came back. So the team "splitting up" had no impact on the film universe. At all. It was apparently their way of simply explaining why certain actors wouldn't be returning. And Mystique? Right back to being a good guy in DOFP.

"Magneto was a good guy throughout DOFP?" He fought the main hero and threatened to take over the world! That's pretty definitive bad guy stuff.

And again, Stryker dying in X2 doesn't really "count" if they're just going to bring him back for THREE prequel movies with him doing his same old shtick each time.

Notice I didn't mention "The MCU isn't afraid to kill characters," because when they do they just bring them back. The Fox X-Men bring everything back, every idea and theme, same bad guys every single movie. Oh there might be a second bad guy in addition to Magneto, like Kevin Bacon, the little guy from Game of Thrones, and Apoc. But Magneto's always there, doing his thing, never goes away, always goes too far, etc. Jean Grey is always haunting Logan, even though they never had a thing, like she's the Fox version of Rachel from the TDK series.

In the MCU we get Rocketeer-esque adventure serials, quippy Favreau and Whedon films, political thrillers, Shane Black joints, retro space operas, heist movies, etc. Other than First Class every X-Men film is the same old Singer/Ratner homogenization of repeated themes driven into the ground over and over and over.

 

[pturtle]

Before you added the specifics I assumed that Apocalypse broke new ground. Guess not...

First Class did start to bring us something new but unfortunately that all ended when Singer came back. So the team "splitting up" had no impact on the film universe. At all. It was apparently their way of simply explaining why certain actors wouldn't be returning. And Mystique? Right back to being a good guy in DOFP.

"Magneto was a good guy throughout DOFP?" He fought the main hero and threatened to take over the world! That's pretty definitive bad guy stuff.

And again, Stryker dying in X2 doesn't really "count" if they're just going to bring him back for THREE prequel movies with him doing his same old shtick each time.

Notice I didn't mention "The MCU isn't afraid to kill characters," because when they do they just bring them back. The Fox X-Men bring everything back, every idea and theme, same bad guys every single movie. Oh there might be a second bad guy in addition to Magneto, like Kevin Bacon, the little guy from Game of Thrones, and Apoc. But Magneto's always there, doing his thing, never goes away, always goes too far, etc. Jean Grey is always haunting Logan, even though they never had a thing, like she's the Fox version of Rachel from the TDK series.

In the MCU we get Rocketeer-esque adventure serials, quippy Favreau and Whedon films, political thrillers, Shane Black joints, heist movies, etc. Other than First Class every X-Men film is the same old Singer/Ratner homogenization of repeated themes.

How did the team splitting up have no impact on the universe? Magneto and Mystique literally split off from the X-Men and that leads pretty much to almost everything that happens in the DOFP and Apocalypse.

Old Magneto was a good guy throughout the entire film, not young Magneto.

Aren’t prequels sort of supposed to retread familiar territory? As far as the original trilogy goes, and the future timeline, Stryker is done for, and his story ended in X2, the rest of the movies just show us what happened before, thats kinda the point of prequels

Sounds like you’re going to love Apocalypse because all those themes you’re talking about are absent in it

 

[jye4ever]

Khev and A-dev are right though, time for a new conflict in an XM movie.

I get that's what Apoc was intended for as was the reintroduction of key characters, but what i'm reading it's the same ole same ole again, Apoc be damned.

 

[pturtle]

Khev and A-dev are right though, time for a new conflict in an XM movie.

I get that's what Apoc was intended for as was the reintroduction of key characters, but what i'm reading it's the same ole same ole again, Apoc be damned.

Well, if we’re talking FoX-Men Universe then Deadpool did offer that. I agree they need to start going introducing some new characters and threats but this was a quasi-prequel trilogy, so old territory kind of make sense.