X-Men: Apocalypse - May 27, 2016

[jye4ever]

They shouldn't have went full world destruction at the end because it just makes Magneto walking away happy and Xavier/Government letting him off the hook for all those deaths seem eye rolling strange. Comparisons are already being made to MOS but I don't know if they really are the same, destruction happened for different circumstances. Man if Ross felt SRA was needed against the Avengers, imagine for the X-Men. Anyways here's one of those comparisons:



How Many People Did Magneto Slaughter with Impunity This Time?

Let’s put it this way: Probably more than Superman did in Man of Steel.

There’s a definite disconnect at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse when Magneto and Xavier say their goodbyes and Magneto heads off to start a new life (again). Sure, Erik underwent yet another horrible trauma when he lost his family in this film (again), but that simply cannot excuse the slaughter that he unleashes on the world while in the service of Apocalypse. And doesn’t Charles’ just letting his friend leave make him an accessory to the crimes Erik committed? Same goes for Storm, when you think about it. If mankind had gotten over fearing and hating mutants in Days of Future Past, they certainly have more than enough reason to start up again after this film. And Magneto should be public enemy number one.

 

[pturtle]

I think Singer got cocky with this one. It wasn't a case of him doing it just for the money. The Script needed more time and the film honestly needed more money. This would have been a much better movie had Singer been given the budget he had for DOFP ($250 Million). $180 was too low for an Apocalypse-driven disaster movie.

Kinberg isn't to blame here entirely either. He wrote a fantastic script for DOFP.

Singer, Kinberg, Dougherty & Harris just didn't get this one right. It happens. At least Singer will get a break now.

The slate ahead looks good even without Singer:

-Mangold's OLD MAN LOGAN is filming now and comes out March 3rd
-Doug Liman will direct GAMBIT late this year after his Amazon.com movie (GAMBIT is most def the October 6, 2017 film)
-Tim Miller's back in the director's chair for DP2 along with writers Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick + a bigger budget (DP2 has to be the March 2, 2018 film)
-Boone's directing NEW MUTANTS from a script he wrote (that's most definitely the June 29, 2018 film)
-X-FORCE should arrive late 2018, hopefully under someone other than Wadlow.

All of that plus Noah Hawley's LEGION series on FX starring Dan Stevens which sounds awesome.

DOFP was great, and I guess Kinberg deserves some credit for the writing but I don't know how much. That script was pretty much completed by Vaughn and his writers, then Singer came on board and changed some stuff with his writers and Kinberg but Vaughn did an interview saying that 90% of DOFP was from his script. There was just way too much talent working on that script before and after Kinberg. I actually don't know outside of DOFP if he's written a good movie.

Yea I was shocked to read the budget was significantly lower than DOFP, but in all honesty, I think it was just too soon to bring Apocalypse in as the main bad guy after rebooting the entire franchise.

They shouldn't have went full world destruction at the end because it just makes Magneto walking away happy and Xavier/Government letting him off the hook for all those deaths seem eye rolling strange. Comparisons are already being made to MOS but I don't know if they really are the same, destruction happened for different circumstances. Man if Ross felt SRA was needed against the Avengers, imagine for the X-Men. Anyways here's one of those comparisons:



How Many People Did Magneto Slaughter with Impunity This Time?

Let’s put it this way: Probably more than Superman did in Man of Steel.

There’s a definite disconnect at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse when Magneto and Xavier say their goodbyes and Magneto heads off to start a new life (again). Sure, Erik underwent yet another horrible trauma when he lost his family in this film (again), but that simply cannot excuse the slaughter that he unleashes on the world while in the service of Apocalypse. And doesn’t Charles’ just letting his friend leave make him an accessory to the crimes Erik committed? Same goes for Storm, when you think about it. If mankind had gotten over fearing and hating mutants in Days of Future Past, they certainly have more than enough reason to start up again after this film. And Magneto should be public enemy number one.

Not just that, Magneto was originally imprisoned for killing JFK, then he tried killing Nixon on television after that

The ending felt rushed, and because all these actors had no more movies left on their contact Singer tried concluding all their stories while leaving the door open and did a horrible job at it.





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[a-dev]

I haven't seen the film yet, but I saw the new Quicksilver scene, and it's pretty good, although I'm not sure why they picked "Sweet Dreams", but anyway, he's the best version of Quicksilver that I've ever seen in any medium, including the comics. I like his personality most of all, but he's OP as hell This guy makes tv and cartoon Flash look like a snail by comparison. I don't see how anyone or anything can even come close to touching or hurting this Quicksilver, when they are just frozen in time.

Yup. I daresay he'd even stand a pretty good chance against Rey from TFA.

 

[karamazov80]

They shouldn't have went full world destruction at the end because it just makes Magneto walking away happy and Xavier/Government letting him off the hook for all those deaths seem eye rolling strange. Comparisons are already being made to MOS but I don't know if they really are the same, destruction happened for different circumstances. Man if Ross felt SRA was needed against the Avengers, imagine for the X-Men. Anyways here's one of those comparisons:



How Many People Did Magneto Slaughter with Impunity This Time?

Let’s put it this way: Probably more than Superman did in Man of Steel.

There’s a definite disconnect at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse when Magneto and Xavier say their goodbyes and Magneto heads off to start a new life (again). Sure, Erik underwent yet another horrible trauma when he lost his family in this film (again), but that simply cannot excuse the slaughter that he unleashes on the world while in the service of Apocalypse. And doesn’t Charles’ just letting his friend leave make him an accessory to the crimes Erik committed? Same goes for Storm, when you think about it. If mankind had gotten over fearing and hating mutants in Days of Future Past, they certainly have more than enough reason to start up again after this film. And Magneto should be public enemy number one.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that they cut to the newscaster talking about Mags in such glowing terms. I think, stepping into his shoes, his actions are understandable. But to the masses he was trying to eradicate, I don't think it would be seen the same way Some Man of Steel parallels are appropriate here. Though Magneto never pretends to be the good guy.

I think Charles's attitude toward him makes more sense, because he knew what Erik went through, and witnessed his about-face first hand more or less. Not sure how his allowing Erik to leave makes him an accessory, though. You aren't an accessory to a robbery if a burglar is fleeing the scene and you don't intervene.

Yup. I daresay he'd even stand a pretty good chance against Rey from TFA.

Give her 5 minutes to learn how to run as fast as he does, and look out!

Khev, I'll have to backtrack through the thread and find your review. I'm curious about how the rest of you felt on balance.

 

[pturtle]

Well at the end something happens to QS that I could see slowing him down and making him less OP in the future.


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[a-dev]

Kinberg on disregarding the Mystique/Logan ending from DOFP, can you say lame:

One of the things we talk about in Days of Future Past -- there’s a scene where Hank/Beast talks about the immutability of time,” writer-producer Simon Kinberg told Cinema Blend. “Basically, you can change the way the future goes, but it finds its way back. So while we don’t show how, it found its way back to Wolverine being part of Weapon X and under the thumb of Stryker, that’s the idea.”

Maybe this one is the fault of DOFP more than Apocalypse. I mean why didn't they just leave it as the actual Stryker capturing Wolverine at the end of that film? Kinda silly having it be mystique - shouldn't she have been off nursing her wounds anyway?

Still, also silly to just ignore it in Apocalypse. Another example of the casual disregard for basic continuity in this franchise.

They shouldn't have went full world destruction at the end because it just makes Magneto walking away happy and Xavier/Government letting him off the hook for all those deaths seem eye rolling strange. Comparisons are already being made to MOS but I don't know if they really are the same, destruction happened for different circumstances. Man if Ross felt SRA was needed against the Avengers, imagine for the X-Men. Anyways here's one of those comparisons:



How Many People Did Magneto Slaughter with Impunity This Time?

Let’s put it this way: Probably more than Superman did in Man of Steel.

There’s a definite disconnect at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse when Magneto and Xavier say their goodbyes and Magneto heads off to start a new life (again). Sure, Erik underwent yet another horrible trauma when he lost his family in this film (again), but that simply cannot excuse the slaughter that he unleashes on the world while in the service of Apocalypse. And doesn’t Charles’ just letting his friend leave make him an accessory to the crimes Erik committed? Same goes for Storm, when you think about it. If mankind had gotten over fearing and hating mutants in Days of Future Past, they certainly have more than enough reason to start up again after this film. And Magneto should be public enemy number one.

Yep, they really didn't think that one through did they.

 

[a-dev]

Wolverine is about 6'2'' and Apocalypse is 5'7''...there is something wrong right there.

At first I was like

 

[Khev]

Technically the the tens of millions of deaths in XMA are on Charles' hands too. Why? Because he willingly let Magneto go at the end of DOFP! "You know they'll kill me Charles." "Oh yeah, better let you go so you can murder countless more." Huh?? In that moment Charles was reduced to nothing more than an us/them (the "us being mutants and the "them" being those pesky humans) who picked his gene pool over justice.

Imagine an issue of Batman where Bruce captures the Joker after he kills dozens of people and the Joker says "You know I'll get the electric chair for commiting mass murder." "Oh yeah, well then you're free to go and cause more mayhem." *Batman lets Joker go*

Ridiculous.

 

[YoNoSe]

Technically the the tens of millions of deaths in XMA are on Charles' hands too. Why? Because he willingly let Magneto go at the end of DOFP! "You know they'll kill me Charles." "Oh yeah, better let you go so you can murder countless more." Huh?? In that moment Charles was reduced to nothing more than an us/them (the "us being mutants and the "them" being those pesky humans) who picked his gene pool over justice.

Imagine an issue of Batman where Bruce captures the Joker after he kills dozens of people and the Joker says "You know I'll get the electric chair for commiting mass murder." "Oh yeah, well then you're free to go and cause more mayhem." *Batman lets Joker go*

Ridiculous.

You mean like a movie where Batman doesn't kill people, but his car does?

 

[Victοr]

You mean like a movie where Batman doesn't kill people, but his car does?

Ahem, that's death by proxy... So...

 

[nexus]

Just a few random odds, ends and interesting things:
-- I thought the opening scene was very well written and directed (and I cannot Singer).
-- An Apocalypse prequel story in some form could be really cool. He and his horsemen had clearly pissed off a whole bunch of folks. I'd also like to see a breakdown of the original horsemen in either a DVD extra or "making of/art of" companion book. Who was Conquest, War, Famine and Death? What were their mutant powers? And I still think they should have been on the respective horse colors--white, red, black and pale.
-- I also think movie Apocalypse's origin story and power set is better than comic Apoc. The idea of transferring consciousness to younger mutant bodies and absorbing their powers is great, and I never did understand exactly what Apocalypse's powers were in the cartoon.
-- However the "learning" from a TV set scene was a bit wonky. I think it came across as learning the language like in the movie "Splash" as opposed to tapping into global communications networks. Tapping in probably would have made a bit more sense in the internet age that came a decade later, as opposed to putting your head next to a 13" Sony. But I get it, you had to do something.
-- Isaac did a great job and I liked the makeup design more than the comic. However the height was a distraction. They could have gone the Xerxes or LotR/Gandalf route, which I think would have made the character more imposing.
-- I liked the Caliban/Morlocks scenes. Would have been cooler to see a few more of the inhabitants.
-- While Psylocke and Angel didn't have much to do, or any backstories of note, I liked the look of them, which fortunately tied more closely to the comic designs as opposed to biker leather. They also had a cool version of the "Fastball Special".
-- Ironic to see a winged mutant

Spoiler

going down in a plane, but hopefully he was injured and not dead because I would like to see the character return. Plus, I think Angel faked his death in a plane crash in the comics, so perhaps that's a nod to it.

-- So basically Magneto can destroy the world and Xavier can kill every human on earth? And people wonder why mutants would be feared and hated.
--I think Kelsey Grammer was a better Beast.
--Jennifer Lawrence is threatening to leave, which I think would be a good thing. However apparently she's made a pact with Fassbender and McAvoy, which would be a bad thing.
-- I liked the final assembly of the X-Men. Scott's costume in particular stood out and the visor looked great.
-- I personally think it would be better to keep the X-Men and Marvel Cinematic universes separate. I would just like to see Fantastic Four go back to Marvel, because not only do I think Marvel would do a better job, I think it's realistically where that team best fits. Powers in the MCU come from accidents, technological innovation, experimentation, and other worlds. Powers in the XCU come from mutations. If Disney and Fox could come to an accord it would probably be a win-win all around. Marvel could give Fox a 5- or 10-year agreement for movie related merchandising and licensing and provide more support for the books and character in other mediums, and Fox could either sell back or share Fantastic Four (and I'm assuming Doom and Silver Surfer).
-- Even though I give X-Men Apocalypse a 6.5/10 I'm still looking forward to the next installment. However I do think a new creative team would breathe in some welcome fresh air. But even if Singer and Kinberg continue to hang on, I do think the new movies have been going in the right direction. DoFP was great. X:A is okay to good.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

It blows my mind how much hate this movie is getting. Bryan Singer has done a brilliant job with character dramas (X1 and DOFP are masterpieces in my book,) so it was fun seeing him cut loose and do his version of a mammoth, ensemble/event comic book film.

Having watched all the X-films in chronological order, I felt Apocalypse was a perfect conclusion/continuation to what fans have been wanting to see since First Class. In fact, I think it's pretty funny that the entire film tries to go out of its way to rectify the problems fanboys have had in the past, and it still gets ****ted on. Reading some of the reviews, you'd think this was another BvS (Now I know how the BvS fanboys felt when their film was shredded. I'm just as baffled some consider X-Men: Apocalypse a terrible mess of a film, as I was when I realized there are people who think Jesse Eisenberg was a brilliant Lex Luthor and BVS had a coherent flow.)

Rather than Apocalypse being another Adventures of Wolverine or Mystique and Friends, I thought the film did a solid job giving everyone something to do. Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, Storm and of course, Quicksilver, felt like thought-out characters and each had a moment to shine, vs feeling like set dressing. It helps they all are iconic in their own right, vs the D-list background mutants in FIRST CLASS (which was more about Charles and Erik, so most people forgive that aspect.) Singer's even embraced the more colorful, comic inspired costumes by the final scene, which wouldn't look out of place in the MCU, and people still pick them apart. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. All I know is I loved every moment and everyone I know who's seen it, has too.

My ranking of the main X-Men series (*I love Deadpool and The Wolverine, but their tones and material are so vastly different, they're hard to rank with the rest):

X-Men: Days of Future Past
X-Men
X-Men: Apocalypse
X-Men: First Class
X2: X-Men United
X3: The Last Stand
X-Men Origins: Wolverine

 

[karamazov80]

I like Hoult a lot as Beast, but no doubt Grammer nails the comic version in terms of his speech. And I agree with you as well, that Fox should definitely keep the X-franchise (and nothing to suggest they won't) while the MCU would be the best fit now for FF. The execs at Fox just can't seem to figure out what to do with that team, whereas I think the FF would fit like a glove in the existing MCU.

Technically the the tens of millions of deaths in XMA are on Charles' hands too. Why? Because he willingly let Magneto go at the end of DOFP! "You know they'll kill me Charles." "Oh yeah, better let you go so you can murder countless more." Huh?? In that moment Charles was reduced to nothing more than an us/them (the "us being mutants and the "them" being those pesky humans) who picked his gene pool over justice.

Imagine an issue of Batman where Bruce captures the Joker after he kills dozens of people and the Joker says "You know I'll get the electric chair for commiting mass murder." "Oh yeah, well then you're free to go and cause more mayhem." *Batman lets Joker go*

Ridiculous.

I don't have an issue with that. It "humanizes" Charles, in the same way that Captain America is humanized by his defense of Bucky in the face of all odds. Difference is that Mags consciously decided to wreak havoc of course, but similar in that they are both friends who, deep down, love and care for each other. And though they have strong philosophical issues, they have a strong level of respect and care for each other that will trump many other things. Normal humans don't detach themselves from those situations thinking about the "greater good." Not even Spock does that in Star Trek when it comes to his friends.

The Batman analogy is a bit of an unfair one, though, because in the Bat-verse, Joker never has to face the death penalty. They'll just stick him back in Arkham and hope for the best this time!

 

[RIDDICK]

You aren't an accessory to a robbery if a burglar is fleeing the scene and you don't intervene.

Yeah, after that you are... Spider-man.

 

[pturtle]

It blows my mind how much hate this movie is getting. Bryan Singer has done a brilliant job with character dramas (X1 and DOFP are masterpieces in my book,) so it was fun seeing him cut loose and do his version of a mammoth, ensemble/event comic book film.

Having watched all the X-films in chronological order, I felt Apocalypse was a perfect conclusion/continuation to what fans have been wanting to see since First Class. In fact, I think it's pretty funny that the entire film tries to go out of its way to rectify the problems fanboys have had in the past, and it still gets ****ted on. Reading some of the reviews, you'd think this was another BvS (Now I know how the BvS fanboys felt when their film was shredded. I'm just as baffled some consider X-Men: Apocalypse a terrible mess of a film, as I was when I realized there are people who think Jesse Eisenberg was a brilliant Lex Luthor and BVS had a coherent flow.)

Rather than Apocalypse being another Adventures of Wolverine or Mystique and Friends, I thought the film did a solid job giving everyone something to do. Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, Storm and of course, Quicksilver, felt like thought-out characters and each had a moment to shine, vs feeling like set dressing. It helps they all are iconic in their own right, vs the D-list background mutants in FIRST CLASS (which was more about Charles and Erik, so most people forgive that aspect.) Singer's even embraced the more colorful, comic inspired costumes by the final scene, which wouldn't look out of place in the MCU, and people still pick them apart. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. All I know is I loved every moment and everyone I know who's seen it, has too.

My ranking of the main X-Men series (*I love Deadpool and The Wolverine, but their tones and material are so vastly different, they're hard to rank with the rest):

X-Men: Days of Future Past
X-Men
X-Men: Apocalypse
X-Men: First Class
X2: X-Men United
X3: The Last Stand
X-Men Origins: Wolverine

I think one of the biggest problems with this movie was Singer was trying to cater to the comic crowd a bit too much and that doesn’t fit his style of directing and storytelling.

My ranking on the FoX-Men series is:

X2
DOFP
FC
X1
Deadpool
Apocalypse
The Wolverine
X3
Origins

 

[a-dev]

I don't have an issue with that. It "humanizes" Charles, in the same way that Captain America is humanized by his defense of Bucky in the face of all odds. Difference is that Mags consciously decided to wreak havoc of course, but similar in that they are both friends who, deep down, love and care for each other. And though they have strong philosophical issues, they have a strong level of respect and care for each other that will trump many other things. Normal humans don't detach themselves from those situations thinking about the "greater good." Not even Spock does that in Star Trek when it comes to his friends.

But think about it if anyone on 'our side' had tried to humanise or see the 'good' in Bin Laden they would have been pummelled That is how low Magneto should be regarded after this. And anyone who is friends with him, who supports him or facilitates him would be tarring themselves.

Am I misremembering the level of destruction and death he causes in this film?

 

[jye4ever]

My head already hurts as it is after a Singer XM movie trying to figure out what metaphors and parallels are involved and now you want to add Bin Laden to the mix, you're killing me here.

What started out as a director comparing gay persecution to nazi persecution of jews in a movie were mutants are the face of being gay has now evolved into a lecture about the war on terror, thanks alot a-dev!

But yeah you're 100% right.

Was Singer trying to say that the perfect species was Apoc, who wanted to be male and female, he wanted Xavier's power so that he could be everyone at once. Yikes, an army of Caitlin Jenner's!

 

[Rulk]

I think it would've been better had they stuck with Storms origin story and same with Apocalypse

They kinda mixed and matched.

A cataclysmic event such as an earth quake should've awoken Apocalypse not Moira removing a carpet blocking the sun. Whoever wrote that **** needs to be tar and feathered

 

[Rulk]

What worked well

Intro to Apocalypse- I liked how the horsemen died trying to protect him

Intro with Scott Summers / flirting scene with Jean

Nuclear disarmament scene

Jeans nightmare (this should've happend AFTER Apocalypse launches nukes - she sees his true motivation and more flashes of the Age of Apocalypse.... Including XMEN in future, Cyclops as assassin, Charles dead, Magneto leading XMEN, Easter egg Gambit.

Mansion blowing up

Astral plane battle

Moira and Charles love affair

Rebuilding Xmansion


-----

 

[Rulk]

Stupidest **** in the movie

Storm disinfranchised looking up to Mystique

Mystique "in hiding" and being the hero

Mystique doing Charles job and finding mutants

Apocalypse retarded look in broad day light

The fact he created an earth quake tremor felt in Poland Cairo and Berlin at the same time

Moira randomly showing up in a mud hut in Cairo awakening a mutant that has been sealed away for thousands of years by simply removing carpet blocking the sun (really ...?)