Xbox One System Discussion

[lerath666]

huh, wtf are you talking about.

It more direct terms

The kinect watching, and recording, THEN transmitting people beating it while looking at porn.

 

[GasparZizou]

It more direct terms

The kinect watching, and recording, THEN transmitting people beating it while looking at porn.

That's so funny cause it actually sounds plausible.

 

[lerath666]

THAT'S MY POINT!
And what happens if it does this with a kid who's either looked it up on his own, or found dad's old stash?

Does microsoft get in trouble for being in possession of child porn?
What if they're not aware it's there, and someone hacks into their servers, then takes it, and is caught with it?

I know this is INCREADBLY crass, but i wonder if this is something they have considered

 

[Serpentor]

THAT'S MY POINT!
And what happens if it does this with a kid who's either looked it up on his own, or found dad's old stash?

Does microsoft get in trouble for being in possession of child porn?
What if they're not aware it's there, and someone hacks into their servers, then takes it, and is caught with it?

I know this is INCREADBLY crass, but i wonder if this is something they have considered

Microsoft has said you can control what it monitors and that when it's off it's only listening for the Xbox on command. It also supposedly gives you notifications when it's recording info.

 

[teemu]

Microsoft has said you can control what it monitors and that when it's off it's only listening for the Xbox on command. It also supposedly gives you notifications when it's recording info.

sure it does...

soon you will have to give an iris eye scan and then your finger print just to play....no thanks!

 

[lerath666]

you know, we COULD bypass all this ALOT easier.

End used game sales.

Is saving 5$ off the new price for a scrached-up copy of the game missing the instruction manual really worth all this?

 

[Privyet]

Its game stops fault

 

[Duck]

you know, we COULD bypass all this ALOT easier.

End used game sales.

Is saving 5$ off the new price for a scrached-up copy of the game missing the instruction manual really worth all this?

Actually you would be surprised at some of the deals you can find on used games. When Bestbuy runs the weekly used games their are some killer deals. Used game sales should never be ended. There are too many stores that rely on used game purchases. If thats the case should we end used DVD/Blu sales as well? Its basically the same thing the movie companies don't get any money from the sales, but do you see them trying to come up with a way to **** over buyers of used games? If they have I haven't came acrossed it yet.

 

[Privyet]

Yes I don't buy used unless its like $15 or more off original pricw

 

[lerath666]

Actually you would be surprised at some of the deals you can find on used games. When Bestbuy runs the weekly used games their are some killer deals. Used game sales should never be ended. There are too many stores that rely on used game purchases. If thats the case should we end used DVD/Blu sales as well? Its basically the same thing the movie companies don't get any money from the sales, but do you see them trying to come up with a way to **** over buyers of used games? If they have I haven't came acrossed it yet.

Yes I don't buy used unless its like $15 or more off original pricw

The movie industry is not being hurt by used sales in the same way that the game industry is.

LEts put it into perspective.

ON AVERAGE it costs approx 60 MILLION dollars in development costs to make a game.

This means that they need to sell Around a MILLION copies of a game JUST TO BREAK EVEN. When you consider that close to half of all Video games sold are sold as used, it becomes clear that MOST games don't sell anywhere near that many.

This also means that Publishers are less interested in games that are not Garinteed to be a hit, and tend to cator to the least common denominator. which mean more Cawadoodie, and cawadoodie clones, as well as tons of uninspired crap that is just chasing the tales of whatever the last big blockbuster was.

Compared to the Average holywood movie having a budget of 150 million, and an average take of AT LEAST 250-300 million, most of which can be made in teh first opening weekend, it quickly becomes apperent that these are two completely different mediums, with differing effects from their used industries.

 

[GasparZizou]

Halo 4 grossed $300 mill on launch week, it cost $60 mill to make.

There is no way to justify nor good reason to kill the used games market.

It's pure 100% concentrated greed.

 

[plasmid303]

Over 70% of used game trade-in credit goes toward purchases of new games, especially during the first two weeks when used copies of new releases aren't readily available. 70% equates to over 1.8 billion dollars in trade ins toward new game purchases, and that's just from Gamestop, not including other places like Best Buy, Amazon, etc etc.

Eliminating the used game market would cripple the industry and effectively eliminate a huge portion of consumers who rely on trade ins it to buy games.

 

[lerath666]

Halo 4 grossed $300 mill on launch week, it cost $60 mill to make.

There is no way to justify nor good reason to kill the used games market.

It's pure 100% concentrated greed.

That's The exception, NOT the rule.

Call of duty
Halo
A Shooter made by DICE using the frostbite engine.
MADDEN

These get releases EVERY year.

Why?
Becuase those three games are GARINTEED to make the kind of money you're talking about. They have the most mass-market appeal, and will allways be profitable untill the dudebro demographic gets bored, and moves on.

Take a look at those articles
https://www.shacknews.com/article/73968/kingdoms-of-amalur-needed-3-million-sales-to-break-even

Or this one
https://www.vgchartz.com/game/46411/warhammer-40000-space-marine/

Both are FANTASTIC games, eaisly AS GOOD, if not better than Halo 4, yet very few people have heard of them, and even less have played them.


Using your logic, we could also say Movies charge too much at the box office, becuase Avengers made $623,357,910.

But every movie dosn't mae avengers money, and every game dosn't sell as many new copies as Halo.

Believe it or not, this IS a major problem for the industry, and it IS hurting game development, advancement and inovation.

it is a great deal more than just "corporate greed"

 

[lerath666]

Over 70% of used game trade-in credit goes toward purchases of new games, especially during the first two weeks when used copies of new releases aren't readily available. 70% equates to over 1.8 billion dollars in trade ins toward new game purchases, and that's just from Gamestop, not including other places like Best Buy, Amazon, etc etc.

Eliminating the used game market would cripple the industry and effectively eliminate a huge portion of consumers who rely on trade ins it to buy games.

I said it was A solution, not nessacaraly the best one. The Crazy restrictions on the Xbone are a direct result of the money not going to the developers of the games. It's the major cause of this insanity we are dealing with now.

YES, there are other solutions besides cutting the used game market out entirely. Here are a few


Granted, this particular episode deals more with piracy than anything else, but it is relevent. there is another video with some other ideas as well, but I'd need to find it, and at work I've got no sound

[ame]https://youtu.be/0A_5stc3Sc0[/ame]

 

[lerath666]

Over 70% of used game trade-in credit goes toward purchases of new games, especially during the first two weeks when used copies of new releases aren't readily available. 70% equates to over 1.8 billion dollars in trade ins toward new game purchases, and that's just from Gamestop, not including other places like Best Buy, Amazon, etc etc.

Eliminating the used game market would cripple the industry and effectively eliminate a huge portion of consumers who rely on trade ins it to buy games.

That's a fallicy. Having worked at gamestop, the MAJORITY of used game trade ins went to buying more used games.

YES, during the first few weeks of a release you would get people doing trades twords new copies, but that dosn't really generate revenue for the developer.

Additionaly, those trades for new copies, are generaly for those "super titles" that I mentionede before.

COD
MADDEN
Battlefield
Halo

And those aren't titles that are hurting for sales.

Be COMPLETELY honest, how many times have you looked at a game you don't know ANYTHING about, other than POSSILBY a magazine article, or a poster, thought it looked kinda cool, and decided to buy it a Full, new price?

How many times have you done this, then seen the used one right next to it, and bought that instead? Be honest.

 

[GasparZizou]

That's The exception, NOT the rule.

Exactly, I'm sure most games don't even reach a $10 million budget, so they don't need the same sale numbers to cover their costs, just like not all movies have multimillionaire budgets.

Those articles don't really add to your point, how does the used game market bear any guilt of a game not selling well? If a game is not selling well in the new game market you can be sure is not going to sell well on the used game market either.

And if a game doesn't sell well for whatever reason, the used games block will only provoke that even less people play said game because of the price.

And it's also unjustifiable the fact that they take away the rights over YOUR property, once you purchased the game, it's yours to dispose of it or re-sell it, that includes the intellectual property of that specific copy/disk you purchased, if I understand correctly.

I don't know how law in the US works, but maybe you can tell me if this is still in force:

"The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner."

 

[plasmid303]

I said it was A solution, not nessacaraly the best one. The Crazy restrictions on the Xbone are a direct result of the money not going to the developers of the games. It's the major cause of this insanity we are dealing with now.

YES, there are other solutions besides cutting the used game market out entirely. Here are a few


Granted, this particular episode deals more with piracy than anything else, but it is relevent. there is another video with some other ideas as well, but I'd need to find it, and at work I've got no sound

https://youtu.be/0A_5stc3Sc0

It's not. None of this is about the developers. It's about the big cabal of giant publishers, your EAs, your Activisions, you Ubisofts not being content with their already gargantuan cash flow. The effect to which used games actually damage the industry is inconclusive.

That's a fallicy. Having worked at gamestop, the MAJORITY of used game trade ins went to buying more used games.

Anecdotal evidence. During college I worked at an EB, and while part of what you're saying is true, it's not true (in my experience) during the first month of new game sales.

YES, during the first few weeks of a release you would get people doing trades twords new copies, but that dosn't really generate revenue for the developer.

Why doesn't it generate revenue for the developer. A new copy of a game is sold. Retailers only get 10-15% off the top of new game sales. Some is cut from manufacturing and advertising, but The rest go to publisher/developer. A sale of that particular used game that is traded towards a new game is not considered a "lost sale" because that original unit was already sold.

Additionaly, those trades for new copies, are generaly for those "super titles" that I mentionede before.

COD
MADDEN
Battlefield
Halo

And those aren't titles that are hurting for sales.

You can't make this sort of exclaimation without backing it up with data. If there's a correlation to be made, it's that "yes, those games are popular."

Be COMPLETELY honest, how many times have you looked at a game you don't know ANYTHING about, other than POSSILBY a magazine article, or a poster, thought it looked kinda cool, and decided to buy it a Full, new price?

How many times have you done this, then seen the used one right next to it, and bought that instead? Be honest.

I buy a lot of games full priced, but you don't seem to understand that my arguement was that A LOT of people cannot afford to buy games full priced. And the concept of "full price" is fluid. People are more open to the idea of sub-$60 games. At $40, publishers/developers still make a good profit. This is something that the market should dictate.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...eans_lower_profits_for_game_makers_Unless.php

It's a basic rule of economic theory that if you increase someones risk = it increases their caution. Trade-ins increase a consumer's purchasing power, and if you decrease that power -- then less purchases can be made.

 

[Serpentor]

That's The exception, NOT the rule.

Call of duty
Halo
A Shooter made by DICE using the frostbite engine.
MADDEN

These get releases EVERY year.

Why?
Becuase those three games are GARINTEED to make the kind of money you're talking about. They have the most mass-market appeal, and will allways be profitable untill the dudebro demographic gets bored, and moves on.

Take a look at those articles
https://www.shacknews.com/article/73968/kingdoms-of-amalur-needed-3-million-sales-to-break-even

Or this one
https://www.vgchartz.com/game/46411/warhammer-40000-space-marine/

Both are FANTASTIC games, eaisly AS GOOD, if not better than Halo 4, yet very few people have heard of them, and even less have played them.


Using your logic, we could also say Movies charge too much at the box office, becuase Avengers made $623,357,910.

But every movie dosn't mae avengers money, and every game dosn't sell as many new copies as Halo.

Believe it or not, this IS a major problem for the industry, and it IS hurting game development, advancement and inovation.

it is a great deal more than just "corporate greed"

Yeah those are bad examples for arguing the death of used sales. Kingdoms of Alamur beats expectations sells 1.2 million but doesn't make money, how is that the used game market's fault? The game's budget was too large for the expected return. If you expect to sell 1 million units your budget should reflect that.

Warhammer, lets not get started on THQ, they were a terrible company who had many issues.

lets look at Tomb Raider reboot, it sold I think 3.5 million copies a series high. But Square Enix needed between 5-6 million for it to be profitable. Well lets look at that for a second, the game was great but it had a Multiplayer mode no one asked for or cared about. There are large problems in the industry and used games is just a scapegoat.

Dark Souls sells 2 million units is a hit with players and is a financial success. Because Namco Bandai were aware of the player base for this type of game from its predecessor Demon's Souls so the game's budget was set accordingly and marketed properly. Now they are saying for Dark Souls 2 they are treating it like a AAA title and trying to expand it's player base so now the odds are Dark Souls 2 a game that will never appeal to the casual market will be considered a failure if it doesn't sell like 4 million units.

Every game has to have online because hey Call of Duty has online so does Halo and Gears and everyone loves these games....but people already have those games they may say I won't buy it unless it has online but in reality they already have their online games. Why would you want to play Warhammer a 3rd Person shooter that plays like Gears of War when you already have Gears of War. The people who are going to play Space Marine are Warhammer fans if you target them and budget accordingly you'll be fine. Expect it to sell like Gears of War (which I'm sure THQ expected) and your going to end up screwed.

Now do I think that publishers should get something out of Gamestop's used game business? Yes they should get a cut and that should have been worked out ages ago, instead we have used games as the latest in a line of reasons why games don't sell.

The people saying used games are the problem are the same who said rentals were killing the industry and that pirates were killing the industry. The industry is broken and instead of addressing the problems they are just trying to break it more in hopes that magically everything will be better.

 

[GasparZizou]

Scapegoat, that's the word to describe used games right now, well said Serpentor.

 

[jye4ever]

Yeah those are bad examples for arguing the death of used sales. Kingdoms of Alamur beats expectations sells 1.2 million but doesn't make money, how is that the used game market's fault? The game's budget was too large for the expected return. If you expect to sell 1 million units your budget should reflect that.

Warhammer, lets not get started on THQ, they were a terrible company who had many issues.

lets look at Tomb Raider reboot, it sold I think 3.5 million copies a series high. But Square Enix needed between 5-6 million for it to be profitable. Well lets look at that for a second, the game was great but it had a Multiplayer mode no one asked for or cared about. There are large problems in the industry and used games is just a scapegoat.

Dark Souls sells 2 million units is a hit with players and is a financial success. Because Namco Bandai were aware of the player base for this type of game from its predecessor Demon's Souls so the game's budget was set accordingly and marketed properly. Now they are saying for Dark Souls 2 they are treating it like a AAA title and trying to expand it's player base so now the odds are Dark Souls 2 a game that will never appeal to the casual market will be considered a failure if it doesn't sell like 4 million units.

Every game has to have online because hey Call of Duty has online so does Halo and Gears and everyone loves these games....but people already have those games they may say I won't buy it unless it has online but in reality they already have their online games. Why would you want to play Warhammer a 3rd Person shooter that plays like Gears of War when you already have Gears of War. The people who are going to play Space Marine are Warhammer fans if you target them and budget accordingly you'll be fine. Expect it to sell like Gears of War (which I'm sure THQ expected) and your going to end up screwed.

Now do I think that publishers should get something out of Gamestop's used game business? Yes they should get a cut and that should have been worked out ages ago, instead we have used games as the latest in a line of reasons why games don't sell.

The people saying used games are the problem are the same who said rentals were killing the industry and that pirates were killing the industry. The industry is broken and instead of addressing the problems they are just trying to break it more in hopes that magically everything will be better.