Star Wars: The Acolyte

EndoSickness said:

I think it's idiotic. Was is not very good? Yeah. But I didn't think it was outright bad.
At the VERY LEAST, it got us the first canonical look of Plagueis and for that and way the plot twist and for that Smilo Ren (always forget the name):
it should stay, or at least just finish the story in a 2nd, may it be shorter, season.
There is no merrit in killing something before it's even released and then have some undead media just lying there.
#finishthestory

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It is fine existing as a non canon "what if?" story. No need to continue when it can be ignored in favour of a proper Plaguis movie/show.

Sassafras said:

When someone interviews Headland & co. - and apparently Headland did/had some writing ability - SOME - at least in the past - nobody seems to bluntly point out to her the obvious writing/editing issues, as well as casting issues, directing issues.

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I'd assess Headland as just a tick above industry average for a writer. Everyone else, of course, can feel differently on that one. Most of my gauge on that is from Russian Doll. So based on that, as most people here are not likely to have seen it, I might have had the fortune, or possibly misfortune, to get a feel of what Headland tends to do and where she tends to go.

For transparency, I consider The Acolyte as one of the most misogynistic stories put on any kind of film in the last decade. I suspect, based on statements Headland made in interviews and the general tone enforced by The Big Mouse, that many see it the opposite way. That Acolyte is more misandrist in nature. And I can see where those people are coming from, but I just disagree. Headland is absolutely brutal in Russian Doll to her female characters. But some of it is relatively subtle in nature. No matter what she says in public and no matter what she does in her personal life, I won't ever assess as some kind of wild eyed activist feminist in the industry. She's a mercenary. And she'll shift to whatever stance will best move her forward. She has a talent for survival.

If you change Diablo Cody's Juno into the perspective of JK Simmons, the father, the film takes an entirely different direction. Juno seems like a mostly soft serve coming of age story for a rebellious teen who mostly means well. The stakes are never accelerated past comfortable suburbia, geared for a very sedate mostly casual audience. But I'd assess there are actually some complex layers beneath it. Performer E. Page ( formerly Ellen Page and now Elliot Page) really brings very little to the table to the role. Page looks the part. Page is actually a relatively increasingly mediocre performer as the material gets progressively stronger. Which is the typically the reverse of what normally happens. But Page is buoyed by a pretty sharp script and real talents like JK Simmons and Allison Janney.

From Juno's position ( I'm going to follow the "character" now, not the real life performer) , she meets Jennifer Garner's character, and she's laying it straight. Bold and blunt. From the the father's perspective, Garner's character sees them as useful white trash. From Juno's position, she tells her parents about her pregnancy, and it's supposed to be witty and whimsical. From the father's perspective, he recognizes what is likely her mother in her ( Janney plays the step mother) and that he failed at some level, but also Juno's nature is untrustworthy. From Juno's position, as the walls close in on her at the end of the film, she comes to her father, in almost desperation, wanting to find some semblance of hope out of this entire mess. The casual audience, seeing it from Juno's POV, will see a kind supportive dad much in the mold of a John Hughes film. However from the father's perspective, he's telling her to settle for Michael Cera's character ( someone he's openly gauged as a total non entity and disappointment) , but wraps it in frosting because Juno can never go back to what she was before. Not in their town, not in her relationship with him, not with her clear disposition for self inflicted chaos.

Cody had a write a script not just for the perspective of the pregnant teenager. But also for the commonly beleaguered and ambushed "grandparents" who are stuck picking up the real logistical pieces left behind. It's a coming of age story for Juno, from her viewpoint, but it's validation to the father that his daughter is pretty much a naïve moron who is going to likely suffer through life learning everything the hardest way possible. And he'll be stuck as her only real safety net.

If you shift the POV from each character, from Page to Garner to Ozark Bateman to JK Simmons to Janney, there are different layers to the various principle archetypes into these kind of situations.

My take is don't fight what Headland is doing when the POV changes. The "Force Is Female" and the fruit that came to bear was a total massacre of the Jedi. The relationship with Sol and the twins once you shift the POV is that there is no point in helping little girls, because they grow up, they encapsulate that the "Force Is Female", and as the results show again and again, everyone gets massacred.

I don't see the witch "coven" as subversive at all. I don't see it crushing established lore. I see it explaining the pathology of a future massacre to come. With JK Simmons in Juno, what's quite interesting and unique is he doesn't fight any of it all. He understands he can't feel away the trajectory of chaos inflicted on his life. There are several points where he quietly, but doesn't hide that he accepts his daughter Juno is a moron. Not evil. Not manipulative. Not a sociopath. But just a plain stock and trade moron. Had Sol just accepted that with the twins, he'd still be alive. And maybe all those future generations of Jedi would still be alive too.

Because of the current culture driven in the modern film and television, the expectation is that a strong heavy theme of misogyny in the narrative would be very open and transparent. No, IMHO, thin slivers and hints of it are surface level. The real brutal usage of something like misogyny as a core template in the writing is often very benign looking to start. The most vicious kind can sit next to you casually and almost trick you into thinking it's comforting.

Real malice hides in plain sight. Want proof? Consider all the people you've known in your entire life, who would never speak to some of their family members at all if they were not related. The unspoken tension between relatives who understand that if they didn't share blood, they'd probably be enemies or ignore each other in relieved silence. Keeping changing your perspective to different characters to proxy them as the main POV and The Acolyte IMHO takes a much different turn.

I mean is the show thst bad that it should be erased? I feel like TLJ did more hurt to the brand than this did.

Khev said:

View attachment 721573

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Goodness. Gonna safe this one for later

ironwez20 said:

I mean is the show thst bad that it should be erased? I feel like TLJ did more hurt to the brand than this did.

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It will still exist. Even if they decanonise it and remove it from the streaming service, never to aknowledge it again, the entire season will remain on torrent sites. Bootleg blurays will be sold next to the Holiday Special and it may gain a cult following and become ironically popular (again, like the Holiday Special) resulting in a surge of merch 20 years down the line.


You can't truly delete something in the age of the Internet.

ironwez20 said:

I mean is the show thst bad that it should be erased? I feel like TLJ did more hurt to the brand than this did.

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This is way worst than an already bad TLJ.

Manny Jacinto Says 'People Were Yearning' for What The Acolyte' Provided"
"We definitely leaned into that aspect of — thirst, as one might call it," -Jacinto told IndieWire in a post-finale interview.

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— you gotta give people what they want, right? I think we knew coming into this story that people were yearning for a type of romantic connection between characters, or just something, some sort of longing. I think that was yearned for a little bit in this IP.
... From the start, we had a clear motive in terms of how we would lure in Osha into the Dark Side, and it was always this idea of seduction… She really wanted to explore that idea of intimacy, that empathy between characters, that that true seduction. In previous Star Wars projects, it hasn’t really been explored through that dynamic— really, to be intrigued and seduced by someone

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Not only is the show's lead, Amandla Stenberg, a gay, non-binary, Black intersectional feminist, but....
...That inclusivity and diversity is especially startling considering where the franchise began

"When it comes to the world of fantasy and sci-fi in general, it hasn't felt like a safe space always for people of color," Stenberg says. "And it's been a world that I've always deeply loved and been invested in. So to be in any way, shape, or form a part of the wave that is ushering in inclusion and safety for Black nerds, it's my dream come true."

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They should re-open the Starcruiser hotel, as a "Safe Space" and pair it with tickets for private screening of Acolyte extended cuts of Osha watching Jacinto bathe.
For this new thirsty cruise loving audience they've been catering too, that they think will supposedly cary this franchise and make them all the money going forward.

Lucasfilm Boss Kathleen Kennedy Says 'A Lot of Women' in 'Star Wars' Struggle ..... 'Because of the Fan Base Being So Male Dominated'

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So again, these people never liked Star Wars, they always resented it and the fans, and they don't want to celebrate it, they want to "fix" it.

Kebron said:

Is that KK rumor from the same places that said she was out after Indy And out after Obi, and out after BoBF, and out after TROS? That she hasn’t had control of SW after those same projects I mentioned?

Disney doesn’t play around like that. If someone under performs they just get rid of them. Bob Chapek comes to mind. There have been others like the guys who Ron Howard replaced on Solo. That was done very quickly when they didn’t like the direction it was going.

You’d think the predatory nature Disney has been taking with the parks would stop people from going. It hasn’t really parks still crowded. There’s been a dip in attendance but that’s across all theme and amusement parks in general.

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Chapek only got booted bc He and Iger butted heads.... Remember it was HIM the green-lit DP & Wolverine, and Iger hates the only thing that made real money was a Chapek movie...

Kebron said:

I disagree from what I’ve read it looks like they already made their money back from purchasing Lucasfilm. Pretty sure merchandise alone would cover that cost. But I’m tired and heading to sleep so forgive me for not looking it up.

If Disney is losing money then why are they expanding? They just announced at D23 major expansions across the board. In Florida alone they are spending 8 billion over the next 10 years expanding the parks. Construction has already begun. That’s not something a company losing money does.

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I see you don't understand how big businesses work... When a company is losing $ it's EXACTLY what you have to do to get customers back, you have to re-brand, re-fresh, go big!

If not you turn into K-Mart and slowly die and fizzle out...

Big corps have investors they have to answer to, and we they start losing $ the investors demand change... AKA expand your park to allow for more ppl and make more $...

It's big corp 101 my friend....

I loved Russian Doll.

EndoSickness said:

I think it's idiotic. Was is not very good? Yeah. But I didn't think it was outright bad.
At the VERY LEAST, it got us the first canonical look of Plagueis and for that and way the plot twist and for that Smilo Ren (always forget the name):
it should stay, or at least just finish the story in a 2nd, may it be shorter, season.
There is no merrit in killing something before it's even released and then have some undead media just lying there.
#finishthestory

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The viewing figures were so abysmally bad, I don't see how Disney had any choice in cancelling. Didn't they spend something like 180mil on this show? Only to have the worst viewing figures of any D+ show.
I bet Disney didn't make 1 penny on this show.
You cant expect them eat over a hundred mill on a show like this.

ScoutingForToys said:

The viewing figures were so abysmally bad, I don't see how Disney had any choice in cancelling. Didn't they spend something like 180mil on this show? Only to have the worst viewing figures of any D+ show.
I bet Disney didn't make 1 penny on this show.
You cant expect them eat over a hundred mill on a show like this.

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to all of that lol

Also, the merchandise sales. An indicator if fans take to something. Look how Grogu merch exploded.

I have a feeling the PO's and sales numbers of the Acolyte merch were extremely low. Not sure what was on there, but they removed all merchandise from the Acolyte on the Disney store website... Not one thing on the website.

And as far as removing this show from D+, remember storing content on servers that no one is watching takes up valuable space and costs money. They need to factor that in as well.

loki2371 said:

Also, the merchandise sales. An indicator if fans take to something. Look how Grogu merch exploded.

I have a feeling the PO's and sales numbers of the Acolyte merch were extremely low. Not sure what was on there, but they removed all merchandise from the Acolyte on the Disney store website... Not one thing on the website.

And as far as removing this show from D+, remember storing content on servers that no one is watching takes up valuable space and costs money. They need to factor that in as well.

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Also remember, they have to pay royalties every single time somebody watches it, so if they just delete it, they don’t have to pay any more royalties. Lol.

I can't imagine being 8 years old and trying to make sense of The Acolyte.

Also, the merchandise sales. An indicator if fans take to something. Look how Grogu merch exploded.

I have a feeling the PO's and sales numbers of the Acolyte merch were extremely low. Not sure what was on there, but they removed all merchandise from the Acolyte on the Disney store website... Not one thing on the website.

And as far as removing this show from D+, remember storing content on servers that no one is watching takes up valuable space and costs money. They need to factor that in as well.

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Why not do everything within your power to 1) set up for business loss claims end of year; and 2) blot this abomination from everyone's minds to set up a campaign for the feel-good Skeleton Crew right around the holidays. Plenty of merch opportunities right there.

Besides, who seriously would go back and re-watch this mess? I saw TLJ a second time in theaters just because of the visuals and that's something I pay attention to. There's little in the Acolyte even of that. Boba Fett, Mando, Obi, Ahsoka etc. all had some nice cinematography. I don't get how the relatively simple robes of the Jedi in the PT still look more plush than the cheap costume materials in Acolyte. Folks may not like Luke's TLJ arc but Hamill gave a heck of a performance *respect*. At least the PT, OT, and ST actors are likeable characters even if Boyega had the Rey thing going. There's more complexity of arcs, and better characterizations and voice work in any of the animated series as well.

I couldn't think of rewatching the Acolyte without feeling sorry for Lee Jung-jae who put his back into this fan fiction dribble.

Even that hack Rian Johnson is more talented than that Headland wacko.

loki2371 said:

Also, the merchandise sales. An indicator if fans take to something. Look how Grogu merch exploded.

I have a feeling the PO's and sales numbers of the Acolyte merch were extremely low. Not sure what was on there, but they removed all merchandise from the Acolyte on the Disney store website... Not one thing on the website.

And as far as removing this show from D+, remember storing content on servers that no one is watching takes up valuable space and costs money. They need to factor that in as well.

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The Willow series tanked so hard that the line-up of Reaction figures from Super7 was flat out canceled before production began. Smart move.

Richard Gruber said:

I see you don't understand how big businesses work... When a company is losing $ it's EXACTLY what you have to do to get customers back, you have to re-brand, re-fresh, go big!

If not you turn into K-Mart and slowly die and fizzle out...

Big corps have investors they have to answer to, and we they start losing $ the investors demand change... AKA expand your park to allow for more ppl and make more $...

It's big corp 101 my friend....

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Uh huh sure.

Richard Gruber said:

Chapek only got booted bc He and Iger butted heads.... Remember it was HIM the green-lit DP & Wolverine, and Iger hates the only thing that made real money was a Chapek movie...

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Perfect example of.. Tell me you only skimmed the news on the whole Chapek removal thing, with out telling me you only skimmed the news.