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[Ultron-7]

Found it... Joss Whedon Needed These Three Characters To Have Offscreen Adventures

Was Whedon not Feige. Shame there's not as much Thanos as first planned but at least theres some...potentially. Could just be him being mentioned not seen



I'm probably the only one, but I've had this idea for how I'd love this film to end for a while. Would never happen but I can dream

Basically, Ultron gets hold of an Infinity Stone (maybe the stone in Visions head) and is owning the Avengers, when out of nowhere Thanos teleports in behind Ultron tears his head off takes the Infinity Stone and teleports out. Then Ultron repairs himself as the Avengers continue to attack him. I thought this would be good for two reasons, 1. It would give the Avengers prior warning to who Thanos is and show them they need to prepare for him. 2. It would actually have Thanos doing something, and the interaction between my two favourite characters on the big screen would be awesome.

 

[Motuxmen]

Thats what I thought, if she just gives them nightmares thats lame and random.

Also, Feige said that he needed Hulk, Hawkeye and Thanos to be doing stuff in the background during Phase 2 which will be explained in AoU...let me check that tho.

It's not just nightmares. It's their worst fears come to life. She makes them believe they are livings out their worst fears. She's mot showing them their future as it is, but the worst possible one they can imagine.

Given that none of the avengers even know Thanos exists it would be odd to have him appear. Only one that could maybe know is thor becuase he's alien.

 

[Ultron-7]

It's not just nightmares. It's their worst fears come to life. She makes them believe they are livings out their worst fears. She's mot showing them their future as it is, but the worst possible one they can imagine.

Given that none of the avengers even know Thanos exists it would be odd to have him appear. Only one that could maybe know is thor becuase he's alien.

That makes more sense, no idea where I got the showing them their futures from then....

Anyway, theres still hope for Thanos being in this in some way based on that interview with Whedon & Feige

 

[Motuxmen]

That makes more sense, no idea where I got the showing them their futures from then....

Anyway, theres still hope for Thanos being in this in some way based on that interview with Whedon & Feige

It's possible, but whatever role he may have will be small I think. And I don't think it will be the dream scenes. My guess is he pops up like he did in avengers 1, as a pulling strings kinda guy. And that its Asgard releated. That or kree/inhumans. Just a guess.

I'm all for thanos showing up in limited screen action. But I don't want to see spiderman 3 and Amazing 2 type of cram in every bad guy on the planet or in the universe.

As for those quotes, without knowing exactly what they cut from the interview or how they arranged it..it's kinda hard to tell. Whedon could have been comparing how phase 1 thanos was an example for how he wanted phase 2 hulk and Hawkeye managed in movies other then avengers. But without knowing the whole interview it's hard to tell. These journalists do that crap all the time.

 

[Ironlegion]

Wait.... Thanos appeared in Avengers 1?

 

[Jericho]

Wait.... Thanos appeared in Avengers 1?

For about 10 seconds. In the end credits

 

[ronri]

I'm probably the only one, but I've had this idea for how I'd love this film to end for a while. Would never happen but I can dream

Basically, Ultron gets hold of an Infinity Stone (maybe the stone in Visions head) and is owning the Avengers, when out of nowhere Thanos teleports in behind Ultron tears his head off takes the Infinity Stone and teleports out. Then Ultron repairs himself as the Avengers continue to attack him.

No offense, but having Thanos come out of nowhere only to rip Ultron's head off and suddenly leave during the final battle would be the most anti-climactic thing to happen in the movie. Not only in terms of taking the spotlight away from Ultron and the heroes' efforts, but also in terms of how jarring it is in terms of story-writing.

 

[Ultron-7]

No offense, but having Thanos come out of nowhere only to rip Ultron's head off and suddenly leave during the final battle would be the most anti-climactic thing to happen in the movie. Not only in terms of taking the spotlight away from Ultron and the heroes' efforts, but also in terms of how jarring it is in terms of story-writing.

Good thing I'm not a writer then it was just for fun, the way I saw it was the only way I wanted to see Ultron defeated is if it was at the hands of Thanos. Not a fan of this unwritten rule of heroes always have to win

 

[ronri]

Good thing I'm not a writer then it was just for fun, the way I saw it was the only way I wanted to see Ultron defeated is if it was at the hands of Thanos. Not a fan of this unwritten rule of heroes always have to win

Haha fair enough. While I'm fine with the current formula they're using in the MCU, admittedly I do wish that the writers get a little more creative with how the villains get defeated. TWS is one of better examples since it was less about Steve just beating the crap out of Bucky and more about the struggle to make him realize who he was again during the climax.

 

[Motuxmen]

Haha fair enough. While I'm fine with the current formula they're using in the MCU, admittedly I do wish that the writers get a little more creative with how the villains get defeated. TWS is one of better examples since it was less about Steve just beating the crap out of Bucky and more about the struggle to make him realize who he was again during the climax.

The WS and Bucky thing was entirly different though. It's not like ultron grew up buddy buddy with stark or BW or banner and then was hacked to turn evil.

And as for Ultron-7 not leaning the good guys to win....I think you may be interested in the wrong things. That is comic storytelling. The whole foundation basically is that premise. And although some of the bad guys are little grey area like loki, who seems to have some good qualities and if you forget the few murders (which I don't but at least u can make that argument)...but ultron? He's essentially robo-hitler. If he wins everyone dies. Everyone. So no future movies, comics toys. And just can't bring myself to root for a guy who would murder me and my whole family. Even if he looks cool. Lol with ultron and Ronan and those types it's vengance and murder. So for me, despite liking the character design and glad he makes a good villain, I cant see hoping someone like that wins. It's like pulling for Charles Manson or Hitler.

And to be clear...I'm not trying to trivialize what Hitler did or anything. I have many family members that died durning ww2. Just making a comparison of the two from an ideological stand point.

 

[ronri]

The WS and Bucky thing was entirly different though. It's not like ultron grew up buddy buddy with stark or BW or banner and then was hacked to turn evil.

What??? I'm not talking about something as simple as scenario writing, I'm talking about how it relates to the themes of the movie and how it relates to the heroes. If Ultron gets punched by Hulk and randomly dies, then that's obviously horrible writing. I'm talking about the thematic significance of his defeat, how it relates to the heroes and what sort of notion or idea the movie has been focusing on the entire time.

One of the best (if not the best) example of how Ultron has been defeated comes from EMH, specifically when Ultron shut himself down due to a certain "truth" that Hank Pym uploaded in his system. It actually gave a really thoughtful moment and really served to show how much Ultron hated humanity and how far he was willing purge anything to do with it (even himself). I simply wish that Ultron's defeat is something that's treated as noteworthy, and I have faith that Whedon will have something that would make it more thoughtful and appropriate for the character.

 

[Motuxmen]

I get that. But there's a back story built in with Bucky. The story's often have to be simple and easy to follow for a wide range of people. It's not about the writers not being creative or anything, it's about flow and the ability to follow.

I was just saying the one example you used as what to do was no more creative then anything else. It just had a more emotional payoff becuase of the charachter. That's not something you could do with an evil robot. Or an angry robot. Whatever. Point is, I don't see the WS as being more creative them anything else. It just had more impct becuase of who Bucky is and the on screen history with Cap.

The example you used wouldn't work that well on film though. If there's just some code uploaded half the audience is going to walk away saying that sucked, why not just "triggers the code or pull that heart string before he kills or so on.

They have to consider, in writing, that more then half the people watching the movie will be (statistically) below average intelligence or maybe young, or just not as wise/experienced. Not to sound harsh, but it is surprising how dense people can be at times. Lol not saying you. Lol just on average. A couple days ago I was reading an article about how part of Thors story was cut from this film...and the top comment in the comment sections said this ..

"Well guess thor is the mystery character again. Just like the first movie. First he goes to earth and can't use the hammer then later he can. And there's no explanation. Guess it's like that again"

Yea. Lol no explanation, other then the main plot to the whole movie. I hear about stuff like that all the time. It's amazing.

 

[ronri]

I was just saying the one example you used as what to do was no more creative then anything else. It just had a more emotional payoff becuase of the charachter. That's not something you could do with an evil robot. Or an angry robot. Whatever. Point is, I don't see the WS as being more creative them anything else. It just had more impct becuase of who Bucky is and the on screen history with Cap.

Obviously there's certain restrictions they had in terms of what they can write. And you're missing the point of why I brought up Bucky. It works because it IS Bucky. In the same manner, I would want something that feels more appropriate for Ultron's character, not something that obviously only works for Bucky. Do you get what I mean?

The example you used wouldn't work that well on film though. If there's just some code uploaded half the audience is going to walk away saying that sucked, why not just "triggers the code or pull that heart string before he kills or so on.

I never said that they should outright use that rather they should come up with something just as thoughtful and it would be fine by me. Also it's not just some random "code", what Hank Pym uploaded in Ultron's system is the very truth and knowledge of how his thought patterns are modeled after an actual human being. It wasn't the code that killed Ultron, it was Ultron's own decision to kill himself because he couldn't exist in his own imperative. Also just to make it clear, I'm not equating this kind of writing with the one for the film, that would just be silly. Rather I'm talking about the thought behind it, and whether or not it's appropriate for the character.

They have to consider, in writing, that more then half the people watching the movie will be (statistically) below average intelligence or maybe young, or just not as wise/experienced. Not to sound harsh, but it is surprising how dense people can be at times. Lol not saying you. Lol just on average.

I recognize that and that's exactly why I brought up Bucky's ending. It was simple and easy enough to get, but very appropriate and thoughtful enough for the character.

 

[Motuxmen]

I get what your saying I'm just disagreeing.

I get your not saying use the WS idea directly. But I'm just pointing out why it's a bad comparison. And why one would be more enjoyable for people them the other. It wouldn't matter what they wrote, pretty much, nothing would have the same impact or organic feel. Bucky and caps story spanned multiple movies and multiple years and started out as a feel good ww2 war hero. I don't find that story any more or less planned or well written then anything else I've seen in a sci-fi or CBM I've enjoyed.

And as for the code part...again...that's how you view it. But movies are not written with one person or ten people or a thousand people in mind. They have to consider how they think anyone would see it. You see it as a significant thing. Not everyone will see it as a big deal. And no matter what the "truth" would be a large portion of the audience will see that as a cheat. Or not understand.

 

[ronri]

I get what your saying I'm just disagreeing.

I don't get it. Do you mean to say that you disagree with my main point (keyword; "main" being the most important part) about hoping for a thoughtful and appropriate ending for Ultron and other bad guys in general? Because that's the main thing I'm talking about. Or do you simply disagree with the choice of examples I've described based on some set of flimsy reasons? And yes, I'm calling them flimsy because you obviously ignored the fact that I specifically said that I'm not equating the cartoon's writing to what's obviously meant for a film (meaning that I'm only using it as a referential example of writing something thoughtful, and not how they should literally write his ending).

Also much as you say that you recognize that I'm not advocating for them to write something that functions exactly like Bucky's writing, your arguments are still operating under that very strict assumption by mentioning how "it wouldn't matter what they wrote, pretty much, nothing would have the same impact or organic feel". With this in mind, you're forgetting about one-off cases such as villains like Heath Ledger's Joker which I found to be both well-written AND well-received, without the character appearing in a previous film set in-universe prior to the one where they take center stage.

You say that you "get what [I'm] saying", but you don't seem interested in offering anything beyond simply nit-picking my choice of examples while going on tangents about how a general audience's mind works (really? no really?). Sorry but if that's really all you have to say then I'd rather we cut this discussion short and we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Ultron-7]

I just meant a film where at the end the villain is victorious in some way and left as a cliff hangar, then in the sequel he gets defeated.

Kind of like Loki on the throne at the end of thor but something more dramatic. I don't mean the villain kills everyone that's just a stupid thought going straight to the nuclear option to try and prove a point.

Thanos comics are nearly always about his victories, so while comics are hero dominant the are exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ImABarRoomHero]

I just meant a film where at the end the villain is victorious in some way and left as a cliff hangar, then in the sequel he gets defeated.

Kind of like Loki on the throne at the end of thor but something more dramatic. I don't mean the villain kills everyone that's just a stupid thought going straight to the nuclear option to try and prove a point.

Thanos comics are nearly always about his victories, so while comics are hero dominant the are exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There have been numerous leaks which may or may not come to fruition, but based on it's source it will probably happen. So...

Spoiler

For Cap, Thor and Infinity Wars 1, hope you like the end of Empire Strikes Back, get ready for some feels.

 

[ronri]

There have been numerous leaks which may or may not come to fruition, but based on it's source it will probably happen. So...

Spoiler

For Cap, Thor and Infinity Wars 1, hope you like the end of Empire Strikes Back, get ready for some feels.

Makes sense. I can see this easily happening for Thanos if they want to show him off with the Infinity Gauntlet, not to mention the fact that Infinity Wars will be a 2-parter...

 

[Brainiac]

oh you just know that IFP1 is going to one epic cliffhanger...... I'm not sure I can survive the year between

 

[Ultron-7]

There have been numerous leaks which may or may not come to fruition, but based on it's source it will probably happen. So...

Spoiler

For Cap, Thor and Infinity Wars 1, hope you like the end of Empire Strikes Back, get ready for some feels.

Don't hate me....but I've never seen that film. What happens at the end?