12 shot dead at movie theater

[Niltusk]

oscorp...
oscorp...
oscorp...

 

[csi]

I still don't get the whole gun thing and right to use them etc.

I mean I get it, but in alot of ways the US still holds on to old fashioned ideals, that were there and made sense back then, when you did have to police yourself, or protect your farm, or protect yourself from Indians or whatever. It's not the wild west anymore.

I just don't get today why everyone still feels like they need to and have to carry guns. In alot of ways the US is lagging behind the modern times, whether it's gun control, health care etc.

I guess as a Canadian, I just don't and won't get it.

its mostly because we still have the belief in being self sufficient, well most of us anyways. If you look at statistics socialized medicine is not better then what we have here, unless you can't, or don't want to be responsible for getting insurance on your own. I have a buddy in England who came over here to teach for three years. He was astounded at how easy it was for him to get in to see a doctor and the superior level of care he got compared to England. Same with guns. Do I want to sit in my house hoping the police shop up in time to stop the people who broke in from robbing me? Raping my wife and daughter? Killing us? That may seem enlightened and modern to you, but I prefer to stay self sufficient and alive. Call me crazy.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

I still don't get the whole gun thing and right to use them etc.

I mean I get it,

I just don't get

I guess as a Canadian, I just don't and won't get it.

 

[Niltusk]

its mostly because we still have the belief in being self sufficient, well most of us anyways. If you look at statistics socialized medicine is not better then what we have here, unless you can't, or don't want to be responsible for getting insurance on your own. I have a buddy in England who came over here to teach for three years. He was astounded at how easy it was for him to get in to see a doctor and the superior level of care he got compared to England. Same with guns. Do I want to sit in my house hoping the police shop up in time to stop the people who broke in from robbing me? Raping my wife and daughter? Killing us? That may seem enlightened and modern to you, but I prefer to stay self sufficient and alive. Call me crazy.

You bring up a good point. I had to get some shots updated in a pinch last week. I did it as a Nurse visit since my complex now has several Nurse Practitioners, ie, I didn't even call, I stopped in told the lady at the front desk what I needed, in out and on my way in 15 minutes.

I have never had to wait for healthcare and its just becoming easier and easier, but I hear other countries horrible stories of getting medical care. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I have damn good insurance and I'm very comfortable with my health care and its costs.

 

[csi]

You bring up a good point. I had to get some shots updated in a pinch last week. I did it as a Nurse visit since my complex now has several Nurse Practitioners, ie, I didn't even call, I stopped in told the lady at the front desk what I needed, in out and on my way in 15 minutes.

I have never had to wait for healthcare and its just becoming easier and easier, but I hear other countries horrible stories of getting medical care. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I have damn good insurance and I'm very comfortable with my health care and its costs.

don't get too comfortable with it if Obamacare doesn't get repealed.

 

[Niltusk]

don't get too comfortable with it if Obamacare doesn't get repealed.

You know, maybe I've been indifferent in paying attention to that because I don't know its implications, but I don't know all the terms and I guess since I am insured I assumed it wouldn't effect me, but I literally had a coworker crying the day it passed saying it was going to ruin the future for children.

Seriously? Not to be too ignorant (which I admittedly am on the subject) but how bad can it be?

 

[Darth Cruel]

I still don't get the whole gun thing and right to use them etc.

I mean I get it, but in alot of ways the US still holds on to old fashioned ideals, that were there and made sense back then, when you did have to police yourself, or protect your farm, or protect yourself from Indians or whatever. It's not the wild west anymore.

I just don't get today why everyone still feels like they need to and have to carry guns. In alot of ways the US is lagging behind the modern times, whether it's gun control, health care etc.

I guess as a Canadian, I just don't and won't get it.

Why do you feel you need to understand it?

 

[diecast]

You know, maybe I've been indifferent in paying attention to that because I don't know its implications, but I don't know all the terms and I guess since I am insured I assumed it wouldn't effect me, but I literally had a coworker crying the day it passed saying it was going to ruin the future for children.

Seriously? Not to be too ignorant (which I admittedly am on the subject) but how bad can it be?

seriously, i dont understand the venom it gets. the health insurance companies are the biggest vampires on this planet, and are already standing between you and care. and we are all already paying for the uninsured and under insured.

while i think there may be better solutions, but the way politics has been lately, getting the actual GOOD answers gets in the way of the money being made.

what i do know is that the status quo is broken.

 

[Darth Cruel]

seriously, i dont understand the venom it gets. the health insurance companies are the biggest vampires on this planet, and are already standing between you and care. and we are all already paying for the uninsured and under insured.

while i think there may be better solutions, but the way politics has been lately, getting the actual GOOD answers gets in the way of the money being made.

what i do know is that the status quo is broken.

It is simple for me. I don't want the Government telling me what I have to do. I handle my own business. I am insulted by what I see as the Government telling me I have to suck it's *****.

Edit - And I will go so far as to say that I see acceptance of the government ***** as lazy and weak.

 

[csi]

You know, maybe I've been indifferent in paying attention to that because I don't know its implications, but I don't know all the terms and I guess since I am insured I assumed it wouldn't effect me, but I literally had a coworker crying the day it passed saying it was going to ruin the future for children.

Seriously? Not to be too ignorant (which I admittedly am on the subject) but how bad can it be?

seriously, i dont understand the venom it gets. the health insurance companies are the biggest vampires on this planet, and are already standing between you and care. and we are all already paying for the uninsured and under insured.

while i think there may be better solutions, but the way politics has been lately, getting the actual GOOD answers gets in the way of the money being made.

what i do know is that the status quo is broken.

The following are 15 reasons why the Obamacare decision is a mind blowing disaster for America….

#1 According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the federal government has the power to force you to buy private goods and services. Now that this door has been opened, what else will we be forced to buy in the future?

#2 Obamacare is another step away from individual liberty and another step toward a “nanny state” where the government dominates our lives from the cradle to the grave.

#3 The IRS is now going to be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that do not have any health insurance. In fact, the Obama administration has given the IRS 500 million extra dollars “outside the normal appropriations process” to help them enforce the provisions of Obamacare that they are in charge of overseeing.

#4 Obamacare imposes more than 20 new taxes on the American people. You can find a comprehensive list of Obamacare taxes right here. If you love paying higher taxes, then you are going to absolutely love Obamacare once it is fully implemented.

#5 In an attempt to “control costs” and “promote efficiency”, Obamacare limits the treatment options that doctors and patients can consider. This is likely to result in a decrease in life expectancy in the United States.

#6 Obamacare is going to impose nightmarish paperwork burdens on doctors, hospitals and the rest of the healthcare system. This is going to significantly increase our healthcare costs as a nation.

#7 Obamacare is going to send health insurance premiums soaring. This is especially true for younger Americans.

#8 Many small businesses are going to be absolutely crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. This is going to make them even less competitive with companies in other countries where businesses are not required to provide healthcare for their workers. This is also going to make it even less attractive for businesses to hire new employees.

#9 Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse. Surveys have found that we could potentially see hundreds of thousands of doctors leave the medical profession because of Obamacare.

#10 Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of dozens of doctor-owned hospitals.

#11 Obamacare is going to result in a much bigger federal government. In order to fully implement all of the provisions of Obamacare, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required.

#12 Thanks to Obamacare, you are going to have to wait much longer to see a doctor. Just look at what happened once Romneycare was implemented in Massachusetts….

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

#13 Obamacare contains all kinds of insidious little provisions that most people don’t even know about. The following is one example from the Alliance Defense Fund….

“Did you know that with ObamaCare you will have to pay for life-saving drugs, but life-ending drugs are free. One hundred percent free. If this plan were really about health care wouldn’t it be the other way around?”

#14 As if the U.S. government was not facing enough of a crisis with entitlement spending, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls. You and I will be paying for all of this.

#15 The Congressional Budget Office estimates that Obamacare will add more than a trillion dollars to government spending over the next decade. Considering the fact that the U.S. government is already drowning in debt, how in the world can we afford this?

 

[diecast]

It is simple for me. I don't want the Government telling me what I have to do. I handle my own business. I am insulted by what I see as the Government telling me I have to suck it's *****.

i agree with you, but what do you do? the public option got shot down that would've provided an option for those that dont have access through an employer or simply cant afford private insurance. and that wouldnt have affected your preferred private insurer. now, understandably taxes would have to go up alongside that, but that brings me to this point - we are already paying for these people with our taxes. wouldnt it make sense to take the money up front? i mean, until we're willing and ready to turn people away from the ER, this wont change. my personal point of view is that health care is a right, not a privilege of the wealthy. and ive seen far to many people arguing with their insurers when they should be by the side of a loved one.

as for the telling people what to do in this instance -i dont see this any different than any other tax break. in my view, taxes have just gone up, and having health insurance is simply one more tax break. no different than buying a hybrid or statues for the home office...er...i mean

 

[hairlesswookiee]

seriously, i dont understand the venom it gets. the health insurance companies are the biggest vampires on this planet, and are already standing between you and care. and we are all already paying for the uninsured and under insured.

while i think there may be better solutions, but the way politics has been lately, getting the actual GOOD answers gets in the way of the money being made.

what i do know is that the status quo is broken.

What I prefer done is to regulate and lower the healthcare costs.

It is simple for me. I don't want the Government telling me what I have to do. I handle my own business. I am insulted by what I see as the Government telling me I have to suck it's *****.

Edit - And I will go so far as to say that I see acceptance of the government ***** as lazy and weak.

 

[csi]

i agree with you, but what do you do? the public option got shot down that would've provided an option for those that dont have access through an employer or simply cant afford private insurance. and that wouldnt have affected your preferred private insurer. now, understandably taxes would have to go up alongside that, but that brings me to this point - we are already paying for these people with our taxes. wouldnt it make sense to take the money up front? i mean, until we're willing and ready to turn people away from the ER, this wont change. my personal point of view is that health care is a right, not a privilege of the wealthy. and ive seen far to many people arguing with their insurers when they should be by the side of a loved one.

as for the telling people what to do in this instance -i dont see this any different than any other tax break. in my view, taxes have just gone up, and having health insurance is simply one more tax break. no different than buying a hybrid or statues for the home office...er...i mean

its not a tax break, its going to be a gigantic tax increase. Its also going to lead to a loss of a ton of jobs, creating more welfare and higher Medicaid rolls, meaning much more taxes on you and me. As was posted in my prior post, its estimated by Congress that its going to cost another Trillion dollars to implement, and its going to devastate small business for starters. I would much rather work to put/encourage more people to work, then just give in and let them tax me even more for them. Call me crazy but I have a difficult time meeting my families needs financially, I really don't want to pay for a bunch of other peoples either.

 

[csi]

It is simple for me. I don't want the Government telling me what I have to do. I handle my own business. I am insulted by what I see as the Government telling me I have to suck it's *****.

Edit - And I will go so far as to say that I see acceptance of the government ***** as lazy and weak.

I think government assistance can be very powerful and effective is used correctly. Sometimes people just need a little boost to help them along while they get on their feet or find a job. It should be stringently regulated and not be permanent.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

I should probably do some research on how this will affect me. I have full Tricare benefits, and at 60% with the V.A., and have always just gone through them for anything short of Dental care. Now that I'm working again all I pay for is dental and vision care.

 

[csi]

The fact that the Government itself is not subjected to the law should tell you everything you need to know about it.

 

[Darth Cruel]

i agree with you, but what do you do? the public option got shot down that would've provided an option for those that dont have access through an employer or simply cant afford private insurance. and that wouldnt have affected your preferred private insurer. now, understandably taxes would have to go up alongside that, but that brings me to this point - we are already paying for these people with our taxes. wouldnt it make sense to take the money up front? i mean, until we're willing and ready to turn people away from the ER, this wont change. my personal point of view is that health care is a right, not a privilege of the wealthy. and ive seen far to many people arguing with their insurers when they should be by the side of a loved one.

as for the telling people what to do in this instance -i dont see this any different than any other tax break. in my view, taxes have just gone up, and having health insurance is simply one more tax break. no different than buying a hybrid or statues for the home office...er...i mean

None of this gives the Federal Government the authority to enact this system.

And on a side note..."I can't afford private insurance" is a bull____ cop out. If a person takes a very little time to learn the system...health care is not the monstrosity cost that many make it out to be.

I have had two siuations that drove this fact home to me.

I took an ex girlfriend to the emergency room some years ago. I actually do not even remember what was wrong. I do know that the cost of the treatment was well over 600.00 (675.00, iirc) until I told them I would pay cash (and I intended to pay the 675.00 cash, I had it in my account and had my ATM card in my hand). Suddenly the cost was 175.00.

Recently, I took my daughter in to the emrgency room after the bottom of her foot was stabbed with a twig. It was buried in her foot and required "minor surgery" to remove it (they had to cut open the bottom of her foot as the twig was in too far to romove therwise). They would have billed insurance 2380.00 for the procedure...and even though my ex wife keeps insurance on the kids, I am kind of stubborn and chose to pay it out of pocket...and it was around 800.00...AND they set up a payment plan for me even though I didn't really need it.

My first wife found out that even though she could not get insurance because she was diagnosed with Lupus...she easily found existing government programs to help with the cost of a major medical expense that she could not pay for.

If people were not so lazy, they could handle their own business for the most part.

Canada may not have an issue with lazy people being a burden on taxpayers...but the U.S. does. And socialized health care at the taxpayers' expense is not the answer to it.

 

[diecast]

The following are 15 reasons why the Obamacare decision is a mind blowing disaster for America….

#1 According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the federal government has the power to force you to buy private goods and services. Now that this door has been opened, what else will we be forced to buy in the future?

#2 Obamacare is another step away from individual liberty and another step toward a “nanny state” where the government dominates our lives from the cradle to the grave.

#3 The IRS is now going to be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that do not have any health insurance. In fact, the Obama administration has given the IRS 500 million extra dollars “outside the normal appropriations process” to help them enforce the provisions of Obamacare that they are in charge of overseeing.

#4 Obamacare imposes more than 20 new taxes on the American people. You can find a comprehensive list of Obamacare taxes right here. If you love paying higher taxes, then you are going to absolutely love Obamacare once it is fully implemented.

#5 In an attempt to “control costs” and “promote efficiency”, Obamacare limits the treatment options that doctors and patients can consider. This is likely to result in a decrease in life expectancy in the United States.

#6 Obamacare is going to impose nightmarish paperwork burdens on doctors, hospitals and the rest of the healthcare system. This is going to significantly increase our healthcare costs as a nation.

#7 Obamacare is going to send health insurance premiums soaring. This is especially true for younger Americans.

#8 Many small businesses are going to be absolutely crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. This is going to make them even less competitive with companies in other countries where businesses are not required to provide healthcare for their workers. This is also going to make it even less attractive for businesses to hire new employees.

#9 Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse. Surveys have found that we could potentially see hundreds of thousands of doctors leave the medical profession because of Obamacare.

#10 Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of dozens of doctor-owned hospitals.

#11 Obamacare is going to result in a much bigger federal government. In order to fully implement all of the provisions of Obamacare, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required.

#12 Thanks to Obamacare, you are going to have to wait much longer to see a doctor. Just look at what happened once Romneycare was implemented in Massachusetts….

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

#13 Obamacare contains all kinds of insidious little provisions that most people don’t even know about. The following is one example from the Alliance Defense Fund….

“Did you know that with ObamaCare you will have to pay for life-saving drugs, but life-ending drugs are free. One hundred percent free. If this plan were really about health care wouldn’t it be the other way around?”

#14 As if the U.S. government was not facing enough of a crisis with entitlement spending, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls. You and I will be paying for all of this.

#15 The Congressional Budget Office estimates that Obamacare will add more than a trillion dollars to government spending over the next decade. Considering the fact that the U.S. government is already drowning in debt, how in the world can we afford this?

1. they arent forcing you to buy it. they are in essence giving you tax relief when purchased.

2. there have been lots of steps towards a nanny state, many of which more egregious than obamacare. namely the patriot act, forcing telecom companies to hand over records, domestic drone surveillance, tsa scanners, homeland security etc and has been going on since well before obama took office (and he has continued it unfortunately)

3. ok

4. how many of those new taxes get lowered to pre obamacare levels if you have insurance?

5. so does my health insurance company

6. insurance paperwork is already a nightmare, hate to break it to you

7. they've already been soaring. i also dont necessarily believe the insurance companies claims as to this being the reason for that increase. a bit of the fox guarding the henhouse.

8. you are able to apply for exceptions i believe, and arent required to provide it if youre staff is less than 50 employees. and beyond that, what solution is there for a system that is typically only affordable through an employer, when employers arent providing it? how is it feasible for an employees to bear the brunt of the premiums that have jumped 10 percent in the last few years while pay has remained stagnant? all that will do is freeze them out of the system and we wind up paying for their care entirely when they go to the ER. thats another reason why i believe their shouldve been a public option available.

9. possibly. ive heard a number of surveys that have broken both ways, but im no expert.

10. ok

11. whats the number of bureaucrats that is unacceptable? cause theres no shortage now, and its not much different than dealing with the insurance company bureaucrat quite honestly.

12. im already waiting a month to go see my doc.

13. thats politics. thats another problem not inherent strictly to obamacare.

14. we'd be paying for these people regardless. thats what gets lost in all of this.

15. agreed. we cant pay for anything. but like i was saying earlier, whether there is a new bill or not, we are still paying the bill even before obamacare. we are already paying for the uninsured!

 

[diecast]

None of this gives the Federal Government the authority to enact this system.

And on a side note..."I can't afford private insurance" is a bull____ cop out. If a person takes a very little time to learn the system...health care is not the monstrosity cost that many make it out to be.

I have had two siuations that drove this fact home to me.

I took an ex girlfriend to the emergency room some years ago. I actually do not even remember what was wrong. I do know that the cost of the treatment was well over 600.00 (675.00, iirc) until I told them I would pay cash (and I intended to pay the 675.00 cash, I had it in my account and had my ATM card in my hand). Suddenly the cost was 175.00.

Recently, I took my daughter in to the emrgency room after the bottom of her foot was stabbed with a twig. It was buried in her foot and required "minor surgery" to remove it (they had to cut open the bottom of her foot as the twig was in too far to romove therwise). They would have billed insurance 2380.00 for the procedure...and even though my ex wife keeps insurance on the kids, I am kind of stubborn and chose to pay it out of pocket...and it was around 800.00...AND they set up a payment plan for me even though I didn't really need it.

My first wife found out that even though she could not get insurance because she was diagnosed with Lupus...she easily found existing government programs to help with the cost of a major medical expense that she could not pay for.

If people were not so lazy, they could handle their own business for the most part.

Canada may not have an issue with lazy people being a burden on taxpayers...but the U.S. does. And socialized health care at the taxpayers' expense is not the answer to it.

and none of that seems to be a red flag to you? that they have artificially increased the price as if its some grab bag of money from the insurance companies? there is no actual cost of these services. i dont even know how thats possible honestly. i had insurance, went in for a physical and had a blood test, and since my insurance deductible wasnt paid yet.....the blood test cost me 800 bucks. which i paid in cash.

and there are plenty of threads on the net with personal stories MUCH worse than that. i was reading one on another board that the invoice for services (not the bill after insurance) for a trip and stay in the ER, a few transfers some tests and a surgery for 42k for only one of the hospitals. not the transfers, not the 2 other hospitals. good luck negotiating that to reasonable levels.

 

[The Ween]

How do you know to believe the second comment rather than the first? The backtracking on "I am the Joker" could easily be damage control from the cops to cover the leak of information. I think we won't know conclusively until the arresting officers and witnesses give their official statements for the court.

This wasn't the only place I heard it, it's just the only thing I could find. None of us know what really happened, and we won't for awhile.