12 shot dead at movie theater

[DarkArtist81]

The following are 15 reasons why the Obamacare decision is a mind blowing disaster for America….

#1 According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the federal government has the power to force you to buy private goods and services. Now that this door has been opened, what else will we be forced to buy in the future?

#2 Obamacare is another step away from individual liberty and another step toward a “nanny state” where the government dominates our lives from the cradle to the grave.

#3 The IRS is now going to be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that do not have any health insurance. In fact, the Obama administration has given the IRS 500 million extra dollars “outside the normal appropriations process” to help them enforce the provisions of Obamacare that they are in charge of overseeing.

#4 Obamacare imposes more than 20 new taxes on the American people. You can find a comprehensive list of Obamacare taxes right here. If you love paying higher taxes, then you are going to absolutely love Obamacare once it is fully implemented.

#5 In an attempt to “control costs” and “promote efficiency”, Obamacare limits the treatment options that doctors and patients can consider. This is likely to result in a decrease in life expectancy in the United States.

#6 Obamacare is going to impose nightmarish paperwork burdens on doctors, hospitals and the rest of the healthcare system. This is going to significantly increase our healthcare costs as a nation.

#7 Obamacare is going to send health insurance premiums soaring. This is especially true for younger Americans.

#8 Many small businesses are going to be absolutely crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. This is going to make them even less competitive with companies in other countries where businesses are not required to provide healthcare for their workers. This is also going to make it even less attractive for businesses to hire new employees.

#9 Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse. Surveys have found that we could potentially see hundreds of thousands of doctors leave the medical profession because of Obamacare.

#10 Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of dozens of doctor-owned hospitals.

#11 Obamacare is going to result in a much bigger federal government. In order to fully implement all of the provisions of Obamacare, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required.

#12 Thanks to Obamacare, you are going to have to wait much longer to see a doctor. Just look at what happened once Romneycare was implemented in Massachusetts….

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

#13 Obamacare contains all kinds of insidious little provisions that most people don’t even know about. The following is one example from the Alliance Defense Fund….

“Did you know that with ObamaCare you will have to pay for life-saving drugs, but life-ending drugs are free. One hundred percent free. If this plan were really about health care wouldn’t it be the other way around?”

#14 As if the U.S. government was not facing enough of a crisis with entitlement spending, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls. You and I will be paying for all of this.

#15 The Congressional Budget Office estimates that Obamacare will add more than a trillion dollars to government spending over the next decade. Considering the fact that the U.S. government is already drowning in debt, how in the world can we afford this?

*Facepalm*

Read the bill again. And oh... In Mass. where this is already in effect... NONE of this has happened. People are freaking out about a bill that was pushed by Republicans for years... Newt Gingrich himself rallied for it hard in the nineties. Romney passes it in Mass. and it works there. It's not perfect, but it works. Obama touches it, and suddenly it is the WORST piece of legislation in history and will send out health care system plummeting in flames.

 

[csi]

1. they arent forcing you to buy it. they are in essence giving you tax relief when purchased.

2. there have been lots of steps towards a nanny state, many of which more egregious than obamacare. namely the patriot act, forcing telecom companies to hand over records, domestic drone surveillance, tsa scanners, homeland security etc and has been going on since well before obama took office (and he has continued it unfortunately)

3. ok

4. how many of those new taxes get lowered to pre obamacare levels if you have insurance?

5. so does my health insurance company

6. insurance paperwork is already a nightmare, hate to break it to you

7. they've already been soaring. i also dont necessarily believe the insurance companies claims as to this being the reason for that increase. a bit of the fox guarding the henhouse.

8. you are able to apply for exceptions i believe, and arent required to provide it if youre staff is less than 50 employees. and beyond that, what solution is there for a system that is typically only affordable through an employer, when employers arent providing it? how is it feasible for an employees to bear the brunt of the premiums that have jumped 10 percent in the last few years while pay has remained stagnant? all that will do is freeze them out of the system and we wind up paying for their care entirely when they go to the ER. thats another reason why i believe their shouldve been a public option available.

9. possibly. ive heard a number of surveys that have broken both ways, but im no expert.

10. ok

11. whats the number of bureaucrats that is unacceptable? cause theres no shortage now, and its not much different than dealing with the insurance company bureaucrat quite honestly.

12. im already waiting a month to go see my doc.

13. thats politics. thats another problem not inherent strictly to obamacare.

14. we'd be paying for these people regardless. thats what gets lost in all of this.

15. agreed. we cant pay for anything. but like i was saying earlier, whether there is a new bill or not, we are still paying the bill even before obamacare. we are already paying for the uninsured!

I personally do not wish to pay for the uninsured. If your willing to shell out your own funds for other people's insurance, you can start with me

The biggest problem with health care in our country is frivolous law suits. When someone goes into the emergence room, or sees a doctor and is on medicaid, doctors have to run a bunch of unnecessary tests because some idiot sued them when they came in with a foot wound and had a heart attack three days later. If they could significantly cut back on all the unnecessary tests doctors have to perform health care prices, especially medicaid costs, would drop significantly. That would make insurance much more affordable and decrease the amount we are taxed over medicaid costs.

The amount of time doctors have to spend doing paperwork also gets passed on to customers. More paperwork = higher health care prices. My insurance has a $45 copay for "specialists", pretty much anyone outside my primary care doc. Both my Chiropractor and allergy specialist told me I could pay them $30 directly rather then the $45 and them having to fill out the paper work and deal with the insurance.

 

[The Ween]

Until the USA tightens it's gun laws you will continue to have these mass shootings! Why does anyone need to own an assault rifle or a gun for that matter unless you are shooting as a sport, farmer etc The right to bear arms is a 200 year old relic, the excuse that guns don't kill people do is a bit of a cop out. I have been to the USA many times and the amount of crazy people there is pretty scary, combine that with the fact you can walk in to a department store and buy an assault rifle and you have a recipe for disaster. The police are there to protect your property you don't need a gun to do so.

You can take away every single gun in this country and this could still happen. Either he gets his weapons illegally, or he uses a bomb.

And the police protecting your property? You're kidding!

 

[Darth Cruel]

and none of that seems to be a red flag to you? that they have artificially increased the price as if its some grab bag of money from the insurance companies? there is no actual cost of these services. i dont even know how thats possible honestly. i had insurance, went in for a physical and had a blood test, and since my insurance deductible wasnt paid yet.....the blood test cost me 800 bucks. which i paid in cash.

and there are plenty of threads on the net with personal stories MUCH worse than that. i was reading one on another board that the invoice for services (not the bill after insurance) for a trip and stay in the ER, a few transfers some tests and a surgery for 42k for only one of the hospitals. not the transfers, not the 2 other hospitals. good luck negotiating that to reasonable levels.

Hell yes it is a red flag about insurance costs. But the government and insurance companies are in bed together so socialized health care isn't the answer.

Individuals handling their own business is the best course of action currently available.

 

[The Ween]

Great don't come back.

The USA is the only place that has crazy people. I'd be scared to go there too.

Wait.....

 

[The Ween]

Wrong, just saying that shrinks "say" something like they have a fellowship of agreement on anything pretty much renders your point moot. Ego and politics rage in the psych community.

So, you're saying that a sane person can't kill a bunch of people?

 

[csi]

*Facepalm*

Read the bill again. And oh... In Mass. where this is already in effect... NONE of this has happened. People are freaking out about a bill that was pushed by Republicans for years... Newt Gingrich himself rallied for it hard in the nineties. Romney passes it in Mass. and it works there. It's not perfect, but it works. Obama touches it, and suddenly it is the WORST piece of legislation in history and will send out health care system plummeting in flames.

gee, wonder why your in favor of it?

There are plenty of complaints about it Mass.

https://money.cnn.com/2010/06/15/news/economy/massachusetts_healthcare_reform.fortune/index.htm

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...lth_plan_a_bust_for_massachusetts_111436.html

https://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34588.html


And you said yourself, you don't work because a minimum wage job (which could also provide you insurance) because of child care expenses. So this heath care plan makes it even easier for people to "choose" not to work and get the benefits at other's expense. Bottom line that is not right. And the burden will fall squarely on the middle class, which is not currently in a position to take any more strain. I am a big proponent of take care of your own damn self. People need assistance from time to time, but too many take advantage of the system.

 

[diecast]

Hell yes it is a red flag about insurance costs. But the government and insurance companies are in bed together so socialized health care isn't the answer.

Individuals handling their own business is the best course of action currently available.

i could kiss you

so why is it obamacare vs health insurance? cause thats the only debate i see going on here.

it should be both vs your health.

i look at veterinary service, and i realized that is what it used to be like for humans. as pathetic as that sounds

 

[The Ween]

I still don't get the whole gun thing and right to use them etc.

I mean I get it, but in alot of ways the US still holds on to old fashioned ideals, that were there and made sense back then, when you did have to police yourself, or protect your farm, or protect yourself from Indians or whatever. It's not the wild west anymore.

I just don't get today why everyone still feels like they need to and have to carry guns. In alot of ways the US is lagging behind the modern times, whether it's gun control, health care etc.

I guess as a Canadian, I just don't and won't get it.

Most people don't carry guns in the US. We may have guns, like ALOT of Canadians, but we don't carry them.

 

[csi]

i could kiss you

so why is it obamacare vs health insurance? cause thats the only debate i see going on here.

it should be both vs your health.

i look at veterinary service, and i realized that is what it used to be like for humans. as pathetic as that sounds

back in the 70's when I was growing up insurance was not regulated as it is now and it was incredibly cheap. So cheap you could afford a second policy that covered your co-pays.

Kind of like phone service used to be super cheap though Ma Bell, but the Government decided it was a monopoly and forced it to break up. The result, much higher costs for phone service.

The more the government intervenes the more expensive everything gets. Less government always means more money for you and me.

 

[Darth Cruel]

*Facepalm*

Read the bill again. And oh... In Mass. where this is already in effect... NONE of this has happened. People are freaking out about a bill that was pushed by Republicans for years... Newt Gingrich himself rallied for it hard in the nineties. Romney passes it in Mass. and it works there. It's not perfect, but it works. Obama touches it, and suddenly it is the WORST piece of legislation in history and will send out health care system plummeting in flames.

It does not matter who enacted it. Partisan politics is an enabler to the problem. Niether party has the authority to force it on the Nation.

 

[Deeznutz6]

You can take away every single gun in this country and this could still happen. Either he gets his weapons illegally, or he uses a bomb.

And the police protecting your property? You're kidding!

The point is it heightens the chances, no one can argue that.

Im all for the right to protect yourself, but dont buy any of this black market nonsense, its just an excuse. Harvey and Todd dont head into the hood with 2 Gs on them to buy illegal firearms, just isnt going to happen in the mass that people talk about/

Bottom line these weapons and ammo are just TO accessible in the US so nut bags know they can pull this ____ off. Anywhere else, you really got to try and put this plan together where ANYONE on this board stateside could put togther a mass killing spree in days.

 

[karamazov80]

Now this thread is about health care reform? Wonderful.

 

[The Ween]

its not a tax break, its going to be a gigantic tax increase. Its also going to lead to a loss of a ton of jobs, creating more welfare and higher Medicaid rolls, meaning much more taxes on you and me. As was posted in my prior post, its estimated by Congress that its going to cost another Trillion dollars to implement, and its going to devastate small business for starters. I would much rather work to put/encourage more people to work, then just give in and let them tax me even more for them. Call me crazy but I have a difficult time meeting my families needs financially, I really don't want to pay for a bunch of other peoples either.

Actually, you already do and I'm not talking welfare and medicaid patients. More and more people are dropping their policies and just taking their chances with their health care. They are using the ER as their doctor's office and and if they have hospital stays, they know the hospitals will just have to eat it or get the government to pay it if they don't pay.

That's what they're trying to do something about. I'm not saying how they're doing it is right, but something needs to be done by someone!

 

[hairlesswookiee]

The USA is the only place that has crazy people. I'd be scared to go there too.

Wait.....

I'm not stuck in here with you, you're stuck in here with ME!!!!

 

[Boba Ben]

Now this thread is about health care reform? Wonderful.

It's a little crazy. Should be more about expressing condolences, in my opinion, but hasn't really turned out that way.

 

[csi]

The point is it heightens the chances, no one can argue that.

actually many people have successfully argued that, even shown statistics and facts that back it up. You should read all of the thread. Reading is fundamental

 

[Deeznutz6]

It's a little crazy. Should be more about expressing condolences, in my opinion, but hasn't really turned out that way.

True indeed

The craziest thing I heard was the 24 yr old girl that was killed who recently just missed the shooting in Toronto, what are the odds.

The shooting in Toronto was gang related btw

 

[Boba Ben]

True indeed

The craziest thing I heard was the 24 yr old girl that was killed who recently just missed the shooting in Toronto, what are the odds.

The shooting in Toronto was gang related btw

Yeah, to escape one shooting with your life long enough to write about how you felt and then to be killed in another one. That's one terrible coincidence.

 

[Niltusk]

So, you're saying that a sane person can't kill a bunch of people?

You made a blanket statment like all psych professionals think the same way. The DSM isn't like a mechanics manual and its interpretation is generally held by who someone was taught by and what theories they believe or don't believe. 20 psychiatrists do an intake, I'd be shocked if 5 match.