Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[A.L.I.E.N]

There’s one little factoid that I didn’t touch on that will answer that. In my scenario, the 1000 was sent first from the Area 51 location which is the second location found by the resistance. Only after Kyle is gone, but before they blow the whole place do they discover this location in the NORAD system records.



Let me see if I can straighten this out. This might hurt your brain. You ready…?

I can even do it without totally disregarding T2 and T3. In fact, I can make them even cooler.

Skynet has been sending infiltrators into the resistance with much success, but it still cannot take out John Connor. Somehow John is able to defeat and/or avoid them. The resistance is successfully campaigning toward the NORAD location under the Cheyenne mountains in 2029, but Skynet has access to Area 51 (the government wanted Cyberdyne’s computer systems and engineers to reverse engineer captured alien technology as a side project) and it uses assets there to create a new Terminator prototype using a new mimetic poly alloy derived from alien nano-technologies. Skynet sends this Terminator to the last known location of 10 year old John Connor.

The 1000 could have left an indicator that Skynet would later find letting Skynet know of this attempt at John in 1994, the status of the mission, and the presence of a rogue T-800. Sending the 1000 back would instantly create this information for Skynet to have found. But since John still exists, the 1000 must have failed.

Skynet builds the T-X which has all the capabilities of the 1000, plus advanced weapons and technologies to defeat and/ or reprogram the rogue 800 that the 1000 reported (in T3, the 850 tells John that his (the 850) presence has been anticipated). The T-X fails, but ensures that Skynet happens even though it’s now past due.

Because of the virus upload that initiated Skynet in T3, Skynet knows now about the T-X before it has even sent it, and the presence of John after Judgment Day means that it too has failed. Now, knowing that the 1000 and T-X have failed, Skynet decides to abandon those concepts, and decides to stick with its most successful infiltrators, the 800 series. However, the Area 51 location doesn’t have an T-800 factory, but the NORAD location does, and that is the location the resistance is gunning for.

Skynet knows that any situation involving John cannot end well for Skynet, so it sends an 800 from the NORAD location to1984 to kill John’s mother before he is even born. For this mission Skynet chooses the model 101, the largest, strongest, and toughest of its 800 series combat chassis (built by Cyberdyne based on the remains of said endo found in their factory in ‘84), since it has the highest probability for success.

This is Skynet’s last chance to stop John, but the 800 fails and no record is left as the chip is destroyed and there was no technology available for the 800 to access to leave any info for Skynet to find. The events of ’84 give birth to John, Skynet, and the original timeline again where Judgment Day is August 29th, 1997, and the events of T2 never take place.

By my reasoning there are at least two alternating time loops that have to be occurring within a bigger time loop.

How’s that work for you? Everything is included and works in a believable fashion.

Brain melted twice but got it all!

 

[SilentSurfer]

That's nothing. I typed that all up once, and hit submit, but my computer at work timed out the site, so it was all lost, and I had to retype it in Word, and paste it in.

In the words of T2's T-800: "I need a vacation."

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

That's nothing. I typed that all up once, and hit submit, but my computer at work timed out the site, so it was all lost, and I had to retype it in Word, and paste it in.

In the words of T2's T-800: "I need a vacation."

Longest post I've ever wrote was that one about the timelines today

 

[SilentSurfer]

Unfortunately, I think way too much about this stuff. I'm an uber geek for Terminator. If they had a word like Trekkies for Terminator fans, that would be me.

No, that wasn't an invite to come up with something lame like Termies.

 

[Randysgut]

Unfortunately, I think way too much about this stuff. I'm an uber geek for Terminator. If they had a word like Trekkies for Terminator fans, that would be me.

No, that wasn't an invite to come up with something lame like Termies.

Nators sounds better IMO

 

[Randysgut]

i had the coolest idea for a predator last night. kind of inspired by the cyborg arm, and cannon arm predators done by narin i think. have a predator with a cyborg arm, so the cyborg arm is an alien's skull just binded into his arm with wiring and metal,and have the inner jaw be where the cannon fires,and/or have it used for melee, like use the inner jaw to rip into enemies how the alien would. i wanna see a half cyborg predator badly, there has to be some way they compensate for lost limbs in battle right?

 

[tnaig001]

actually silent surfer, in the book its summer, its hot and buggy as hell apparently. i dont know why they put predators in the snow, i guess the only reason they did it in avp was because there was some damn good hunting down there in the pyramid

Ok I'm not a AVP fanboy but this is the logic I see behind the series

1) there is a possibility that there are sub species of aliens much like sun species of ants, spiders and bees. As such they may share similar traits while possessing several different ones as well eg in point T-Rex queen.

2) The gestation cycle was supposed to be due to steriods injected into the queen and eggs to hasten the process.

In the Avp series humans are just fodder and cattle feed. Look at how quickly they took apart the best security money could buy.

I think the P2 predators were out on safari. The alien skull probably belonged to the elder. They hunted humans cos they may not have been sanctioned to bring alien eggs to hunt aliens (according to the dark horse comics clans had to bid or ask for permission before they were allowed to seed a planet)

As far as the artic Environment is concerned, I think the area was tropcal a few hundred years ago. That plus the fact that it was a manhood ritual might explan why they were being tested in an environment not to their preference.

Just my 2 cents

 

[tnaig001]

Or they are just Alien life forms resembling Dinosaurs......

Or they could have been around since the dinos. It's believable that trophies could be kept by clans even when the hunter may have died.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Nators sounds better IMO

I can almost see that, and it scares me.

Darken the background on your avatar and tha's awesome.

Or they could have been around since the dinos. It's believable that trophies could be kept by clans even when the hunter may have died.

Believing the Preds were advanced enough to get to earth 65 million years ago, but they are pretty much still doing the same thing as they did then, is way too far for my mind to bend.

 

[tnaig001]

I can almost see that, and it scares me.

Darken the background on your avatar and tha's awesome.



Believing the Preds were advanced enough to get to earth 65 million years ago, but they are pretty much still doing the same thing as they did then, is way too far for my mind to bend.

Well, if you think about it, man has been hunting as far back as we can remember. And while we now have atomic weapons and automatic weapons, most hunters still use their hunting rifle to hunt, so its not that hard to believe.

 

[FACEBOX]

IMO, the predators stole a triceratops fossil, and now proudly display it in their ship.

 

[Blackhole]

I really don't care about why the Triceratops skull is there, I'm just caught up in the droolworthy thought of a Pred fighting one...

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

I really don't care about why the Triceratops skull is there, I'm just caught up in the droolworthy thought of a Pred fighting one...

In my brain it's over in 10 seconds for the Triceratops

 

[SilentSurfer]

Well, if you think about it, man has been hunting as far back as we can remember. And while we now have atomic weapons and automatic weapons, most hunters still use their hunting rifle to hunt, so its not that hard to believe.

At best mankind has like 6 thousand years of history, and that's a long damn time, and nothing is like it was then for sure.

We're talkin' 65 MILLION years here. Turn off the sci-fi processor, and really grasp that in reality.

 

[a-dev]

There’s one little factoid that I didn’t touch on that will answer that. In my scenario, the 1000 was sent first from the Area 51 location which is the second location found by the resistance. Only after Kyle is gone, but before they blow the whole place do they discover this location in the NORAD system records..

So you're saying its the case that all the 'evil' Terminators were sent through - before any of the protectors - in a few consecutive attempts by Skynet, each time allowing it to observe that it wasn't working, culminating in the attempt shown in The Terminator (1984)? And in this scenario the resistance, having so far only discovered the base from which this last T-800 was sent, responded to that threat first by sending Kyle. Therefore he would know nothing of the T-1000. So from Skynets point of view the T1 T-800 was their most recent attempt out of 3, but from the resistance's point of view it was the first one they discovered and as far as they knew at the time Skynet's first attempt? This explains why, as far as Kyle is concerned the T-800 is 'the newest, the worst' but-

I don't see how it addresses the problem of the time travel paradox I brought up - surely, once an evil Terminator travels back to the past, there should be no time for a response by the resistance - the evil Terminator has already become part of their past and should therefore automatically have been successful in its mission since no 'protector' was there to stop it. The very idea of a protector being there should be reliant on the resistance either already having someone in place (which we know wasn't the case with Reeses line "the terminator had already gone through") or their having sent their protectors through at precisely the same time (ie. in the very same time portal) as skynet sent its Terminators - which obviously wouldn't have happened! But if it did, only then can I conceive of the resistance having a chance because they'd be on equal 'time-footing' with skynet.

The chronology of events don't seem to allow for a resistance response, both in terms of 2029 (skynet acted first) and consequently in terms of what has now happened way back in 1984 (or perhaps more accurately, with your idea, 1995 - the T2 events, if indeed that was skynet's first attempt).

Skynet has been sending infiltrators into the resistance with much success, but it still cannot take out John Connor. Somehow John is able to defeat and/or avoid them.
The resistance is successfully campaigning toward the NORAD location under the Cheyenne mountains in 2029, but Skynet has access to Area 51 (the government wanted Cyberdyne’s computer systems and engineers to reverse engineer captured alien technology as a side project) and it uses assets there to create a new Terminator prototype using a new mimetic poly alloy derived from alien nano-technologies. Skynet sends this Terminator to the last known location of 10 year old John Connor.

The 1000 could have left an indicator that Skynet would later find letting Skynet know of this attempt at John in 1994, the status of the mission, and the presence of a rogue T-800. Sending the 1000 back would instantly create this information for Skynet to have found. But since John still exists, the 1000 must have failed.

I like your explanation for the origins of the T-1000, he did kinda seem a bit too advanced for either humans or advanced AI to come up with out of just earthly resources&technologies, even taking into account we're talking about 2029. Also your take on Skynet's thought processes is something I really like. But again, operating on the assumption that the T2 time-incursion is the first and so far only such event - how did that reprogrammed T-800 make it back to 1995? You say "Sending the 1000 back would instantly create this information for Skynet to have found"....equally why wouldn't the demise of John connor instantly become a part of that information since there should have been no T-800 protector there in 1995 to stop the T-1000? We can be fairly sure he wasn't already there (as a "just-in-case" measure by the resistance) and we can also be sure he didn't go through the exact same time portal because...how the hell would that happen.

Skynet builds the T-X which has all the capabilities of the 1000, plus advanced weapons and technologies to defeat and/ or reprogram the rogue 800 that the 1000 reported (in T3, the 850 tells John that his (the 850) presence has been anticipated). The T-X fails, but ensures that Skynet happens even though it’s now past due.

Because of the virus upload that initiated Skynet in T3, Skynet knows now about the T-X before it has even sent it, and the presence of John after Judgment Day means that it too has failed. Now, knowing that the 1000 and T-X have failed, Skynet decides to abandon those concepts, and decides to stick with its most successful infiltrators, the 800 series. However, the Area 51 location doesn’t have an T-800 factory, but the NORAD location does, and that is the location the resistance is gunning for.

Skynet knows that any situation involving John cannot end well for Skynet, so it sends an 800 from the NORAD location to1984 to kill John’s mother before he is even born. For this mission Skynet chooses the model 101, the largest, strongest, and toughest of its 800 series combat chassis (built by Cyberdyne based on the remains of said endo found in their factory in ‘84), since it has the highest probability for success.

This is Skynet’s last chance to stop John, but the 800 fails and no record is left as the chip is destroyed and there was no technology available for the 800 to access to leave any info for Skynet to find. The events of ’84 give birth to John, Skynet, and the original timeline again where Judgment Day is August 29th, 1997, and the events of T2 never take place.

By my reasoning there are at least two alternating time loops that have to be occurring within a bigger time loop.

How’s that work for you? Everything is included and works in a believable fashion.

This is pretty fascinating stuff. I think I need to read it again when I'm not in work so I can figure out if any of it invalidates the stuff I've thusfar responded with. I'm going to have to take a break though before I go insane and bring harm unto the people I'm serving here. Its taken me about 4 hours to get this far.

 

[a-dev]

IMO, the predators stole a triceratops fossil, and now proudly display it in their ship.

As odd as the idea of a Predator 'nicking' a dinosaur skull is, its clearly a far more plausible explanation for it than the notion that the Predators were actually on earth 65 million years ago....unless we're to argue from creationism.

I really don't care about why the Triceratops skull is there, I'm just caught up in the droolworthy thought of a Pred fighting one...

But we already saw a Predator fighting a dinosaur in the first AvP film!

 

[FACEBOX]

As odd as the idea of a Predator 'nicking' a dinosaur skull is, its clearly a far more plausible explanation for it than the notion that the Predators were actually on earth 65 million years ago....unless we're to argue from creationism.

I was kidding, but yeah.... lol

BTW, anyone else notice the differing Moto Terminators in Salvation?
1st versions are the ones that chase Kyle and Marcus.

​

2nd version is the one Connor rides

​

Something else I noticed is the Endo arm to the side of the 2nd version:

​

Looks like a remnant of this one:

So, now the burning question is....in the even that Hot Toys decides to make a moto terminator, which one will they go with? Which one do you guys favor?

 

[SilentSurfer]

I don't see how it addresses the problem of the time travel paradox I brought up - surely, once an evil Terminator travels back to the past, there should be no time for a response by the resistance - the evil Terminator has already become part of their past and should therefore automatically have been successful in its mission since no 'protector' was there to stop it.

Marty, you’re not thinking 3 dimensionally. It doesn’t matter if a baddy goes back ahead of the protector as long as the resistance is able to send back a protector at any point. The moment in time that matters is when the two time travelers arrive and engage each other in the past. The resistance could fart around for a year before sending the protector, but as long as they send him to the same time as the baddy and the baddy is stopped, John will survive to defeat Skynet.

The chronology of events don't seem to allow for a resistance response, both in terms of 2029 (skynet acted first) and consequently in terms of what has now happened way back in 1984 (or perhaps more accurately, with your idea, 1995 - the T2 events, if indeed that was skynet's first attempt).

In my scenario, each time Skynet sent back a baddy it did alter the timeline, but because John survived in each timeline to defeat Skynet, the resistance was always able to send back a protector to whatever time a baddy went back, thus balancing the equation. Just like the 850 said that Judgment Day was inevitable, so too is the defeat of Skynet by John Connor. The resistance can first discover the ’84 Terminator’s trip back in time and send Kyle. In whatever their timeline (created by Skynet’s attempts), whatever they do only ensures that that timeline happens (because the result of that action has already taken place in the past), and John survives. It doesn’t matter how quickly they take action as long as they have a direct response to each attempt made by Skynet to stop John. Each time Skynet is defeated, the resistance gains access to the time displacemnt equipment, and then they have all the time in the world.

But again, operating on the assumption that the T2 time-incursion is the first and so far only such event - how did that reprogrammed T-800 make it back to 1995? You say "Sending the 1000 back would instantly create this information for Skynet to have found"....equally why wouldn't the demise of John connor instantly become a part of that information since there should have been no T-800 protector there in 1995 to stop the T-1000?

Sending the 1000 back would create a time ripple which would change everything after that (including the date of J-Day), but as long as John survives, Skynet will be defeated, and the resistance can send back the 800 to make sure John does survive in 1994, thus balancing the cosmic equation again.

The original timeline was the events of ’84 leading to J-Day on August 29th, 1997. This is the original timeline because it was put into effect by the earliest chronological appearance of a Terminator which gave birth to Skynet and John. Skynet’s first attempt to change this history that leads to its defeat in 2029 is to devise a new Terminator (since 800s have clearly failed to kill John in the future war) to kill young John at the last point in time that there is any record of John’s whereabouts (1994). As long as the attempt is discovered by the resistance, and they can send back the rogue 800 to 1994, the incursion will result in John surviving and Skynet losing.

And again with the T-X. As long as somebody follows it, is successful at stopping it in the past, and John survives, Skynet will still lose, forcing Skynet to go after his mother which creates the original timeline again, J-Day is Aug 29th, 1997, Skynet falls in 2029, and Skynet sends the 1000 to 1994, starting the second cycle again, etc., etc., etc.

Keep in mind that we can see this alternating cycle from our omniscient point of view, but the players actually involved in these events would only see the timeline they are in. Everything that has changed would seem to them like it has only ever been that way.

 

[SilentSurfer]

So, now the burning question is....in the even that Hot Toys decides to make a moto terminator, which one will they go with? Which one do you guys favor?

I would like the first kind since I wouldn't be displaying it with John on it, and I think that endo arm on the second is stupid. Visually and practically, it is just lame to be there. Besides, I like to have the kind in my collection that wasn't dumb enough to trip over a rope. So much for electronic site, huh?

I think your third version is actually the original concept, and I'm glad they abandoned it. I like the moto being a self contained machine entity, and not something for an endo to ride.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Found some cool stuff on time paradoxes and theory here.
https://www.examiner.com/x-15701-Ti...101nbsp-What-is-a-temporal-anomaly-or-paradox

Based on the info on the first page alone, it looks like T1 indicates a "predestination paradox or uncaused cause, in which a chain of events is self-sustaining because events in the future are necessary causes for events in the past which in turn are necessary causes for those same future events."

My scenario suggests that Skynet's multiple attempts to change the past is like a "sawtooth snap which refers to an unstable progression of histories each causing the next in sequence."

To include the T2 events and everything that follows, but still include the original timeline events, you kinda have to adopt the "infinity loop which describes usually two distinct histories which cause each other."

So, I've come up with a sawtooth snap (named for the according diogram) within an infinite loop. I love this stuff. My brain is eating this up so fast it's going to go back in time. When this brain hits 88 mph, you're going to see some serious...


*brain has left current temporal plane*