Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[uscmhicks]

I don't know how you guys can talk about this. It gives me a headache trying to read it.

 

[SilentSurfer]

I was such a fan of the original Terminator that when T2 came out (I was only 17), I instantly failed to fully accept it because it broke the perfect predestination paradox loop that was T1. I just couldn't fit it in and arrive at the events of T1. Then T3 came out, and J-Day still happens, but not in 1997, and I was really stumped. Unwilling to be limited to watching just the first movie, I was forced to accept that there were alternate timelines going on in order to justify all the sequels, but it wasn't until TS that I began to think about the 2029 events and how I could account for everything without disregarding anything. I didn't want to not love such great action movies. So I came up with the chronology of Skynet's attempts to kill John to create a series of slightly different timelines that lead to the same eventual conclusion, the events of '84.

I should diogram it someday so it might make visual sense. I can see myself locked in a room, drawing all over the walls, muttering incoherently to myself, totally unkempt and malnourished.

 

[snoop101]

I was such a fan of the original Terminator that when T2 came out (I was only 17), I instantly failed to fully accept it because it broke the perfect predestination paradox loop that was T1. I just couldn't fit it in and arrive at the events of T1. Then T3 came out, and J-Day still happens, but not in 1997, and I was really stumped. Unwilling to be limited to watching just the first movie, I was forced to accept that there were alternate timelines going on in order to justify all the sequels, but it wasn't until TS that I began to think about the 2029 events and how I could account for everything without disregarding anything. I didn't want to not love such great action movies. So I came up with the chronology of Skynet's attempts to kill John to create a series of slightly different timelines that lead to the same eventual conclusion, the events of '84.

I should diogram it someday so it might make visual sense. I can see myself locked in a room, drawing all over the walls, muttering incoherently to myself, totally unkempt and malnourished.

Well, t2 was supposed to be the end of the terminator story. But thanks to Terminator 3 thats not the case.But I see what you mean, T2 pretty much screws up the whole timeline loop.

 

[nicky]

1). In T1 Reese says the time displacement equipment was destroyed after Connor sent him thru....so how did the T2 T-800 and T-1000 get sent then? Did Connor lie to Reese (and not destroy it after all) and how could Reese have known if it was destroyed after he got sent thru?

2). Why was Reese sent alone to 1984? Surely he'd stand a better chance at completing his mission if back-up was sent too? It may have been cos Connor knew Reese was his dad but surly as history was already written Connor being Reese's dad wouldn't change even if other men were sent back?

 

[Devil_666]

In T1 Reese says the time displacement equipment was destroyed after Connor sent him thru....so how did the T2 T-800 and T-1000 get sent then? Did Connor lie to Reese (and not destroy it after all) and how could Reese have known if it was destroyed after he got sent thru?

Weren't the Terminators sent from another location?

 

[nicky]

Weren't the Terminators sent from another location?

It's never explained in the movie...but thinking about it now, it kinda explains why the Terminators now arrive with that funky melting sphere around them.

 

[uscmhicks]

Weren't the Terminators sent from another location?

thats how I always thought of it.

 

[nicky]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!

1). In T3 the firefighter tries to lift Arnie up after he took a hit from the TX. The firefighter says, "he weighs a ton" and can't budge him. If the T-800/850s are infiltration units and like Reeses says, "have everything", then surly he would weigh the same as a normal human being and not "a ton"? Perhaps instead of using dogs to spot Terminators they should just use pressure mats or weighing scales.

2). In T3 why does the T-850 need to wear shades?? In T1 it was to hide the cyborg eye and in T2 it's cos the shades were in the bar-tender's pocket (and already right infront of him) but in T3 he had to look for them?

3). In T3 how did the T-850 just happen to conveniently be soooo lucky to get clothes from another biker??? And then get another set of shades....and then another shotgun?? And why didn't John even ask him, "Wow! So you all come off an assembley line, I guess that's why you all dress the same???"

4). The T1 poster tagline reads, "In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear...etc." I wouldnt of thought of Skynet as "the rulers of this planet"?

5). The prologue text in T1 says that "the final battle would be fought tonight." I guess Cameron wasn't thinking sequel.

6). In T2 why didn't Cameron show us any POV shots of the T-1000?

7). Is the endoskeleton's teeth metal or part of the "cybernetic organism surrounded by living tissue"?

 

[Devil_666]

I'm sure someone else will answer your questions Nicky but I'll give you the real answer to ALL these questions in this thread: NONE of these movies were ever meant to have sequels + NONE of these movies were ever made to be anything more than what they are.

Predator = Another action flick/monster movie vehicle for Arnold.

Alien = "Jaws in space". That's exactly how Dan O'Bannon (Writer) pitched it.

Terminator = Futuristic Sci-Fi movie that had time travel thrown in due to budget constraints (time travel so most of the film could be shot present day).

None of the people involved in these movies were thinking of sequels. And to be perfectly honest not much thought was put into the stories. Even Alien was derived from O'Bannon admittedly taking ideas from other Sci-Fi movies and combining all those elements. All of these films are monster movies at the core: they all depend on the big reveal of the monster. They're all popcorn, summer films.

Problem is all three films were successful at the box office. And demand for sequels grew.

Most films aren't mapped out in meticulous detail. And because of that they completely fall apart when you apply logic to them. Then there's the problem of multiple people working on the films with different ideas and different directions they want to take these movies. Star Wars for instance has a strict guideline layed down by uber-nerd Lucas. Nothing relating to SW can get the green light unless it makes sense and fits in with the mytho's that have already been layed out. These films (Predator, Alien & Terminator) don't have that. Which is why so many conflicting things have been added, etc.

Pretty much every answer you'll get for instance will HAVE TO BE speculation. Why? because no one associated with these films cares enough to lay out all the details and loose ends of these films definitively. So you're left with fan speculation. Which is cool.. but in reality it means even with an answer from a fan the question is still unanswered.

And there's still movies coming out: Prequel for Alien and a new Predator movie so expect even more confusion soon.

 

[nicky]

I can think of two responses for that post ^^^:

1). Wow, it's taken 572 posts before someone actually pointed that out!!??

OR

2). You're spoiling everyone's fun, party-pooper!!

 

[Blackhole]

Does anyone think they'll combine all 3 franchises outside of the comic books? I think it could be worth a watch, but it could also be amazing awful...

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!

1). In T3 the firefighter tries to lift Arnie up after he took a hit from the TX. The firefighter says, "he weighs a ton" and can't budge him. If the T-800/850s are infiltration units and like Reeses says, "have everything", then surly he would weigh the same as a normal human being and not "a ton"? Perhaps instead of using dogs to spot Terminators they should just use pressure mats or weighing scales.

2). In T3 why does the T-850 need to wear shades?? In T1 it was to hide the cyborg eye and in T2 it's cos the shades were in the bar-tender's pocket (and already right infront of him) but in T3 he had to look for them?

3). In T3 how did the T-850 just happen to conveniently be soooo lucky to get clothes from another biker??? And then get another set of shades....and then another shotgun?? And why didn't John even ask him, "Wow! So you all come off an assembley line, I guess that's why you all dress the same???"

4). The T1 poster tagline reads, "In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear...etc." I wouldnt of thought of Skynet as "the rulers of this planet"?

5). The prologue text in T1 says that "the final battle would be fought tonight." I guess Cameron wasn't thinking sequel.

6). In T2 why didn't Cameron show us any POV shots of the T-1000?

7). Is the endoskeleton's teeth metal or part of the "cybernetic organism surrounded by living tissue"?

Your first three points are about T3, this does'nt exist in my world.

Basically T3 Arnies glasses are part of what the Terminator is, Predator the mask and Aliens the tounge. Same with the clothes.

Him waying a ton is a expresion, the endo may have been reinforced to combat the T-X. hence T-850. Also T3 is complete ^^^^e!

T-1 tagline on the poster, with no intention of a sequel Cameron may have wanted us to leave it to imagination. Skynet may, intentionally, been the leader of a league of supreme beings at war with humanity. Using robots as soldiers.

The T-1000 body is possibley one big sensor, it could probably still "see" the T-800.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Damn, nicky, you're making me work too hard. Here goes:

1). In T1 Reese says the time displacement equipment was destroyed after Connor sent him thru....so how did the T2 T-800 and T-1000 get sent then?

The plan as far as Reese knew was that it would be destroyed after he went through. Anything could have happened after that though. They may have been stopped by another Terminator (the 1000 perhaps), or like Devil and I have theorized, it’s entirely possible there may be more than one site.

2). Why was Reese sent alone to 1984?

Yes, other backup would have been smart, but John already knew he would succeed. Besides, having a group of guys around blowing stuff up isn’t very discrete, nor would it create a situation for Kyle to be ‘alone’ with Sarah. Kyle’s mission was to stop the Terminator (and knock up Sarah). Additionally, the more people you send back, the more termporal incursion you stand to create.

It's never explained in the movie...but thinking about it now, it kinda explains why the Terminators now arrive with that funky melting sphere around them.

Having the creation Skynet and the date of J-Day pushed back, everything is a little different, and in some cases, less refined as it could have been by 2029.

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!

1). In T3 the firefighter tries to lift Arnie up after he took a hit from the TX. The firefighter says, "he weighs a ton" and can't budge him. Perhaps instead of using dogs to spot Terminators they should just use pressure mats or weighing scales.

Pressure mats… Why didn’t Cameron think of that? I agree with you that he shouldn’t weigh considerably more than a real person. You’d think the hyper alloy combat chassis for the infiltrator would be fairly light weight, both to make it more convincingly human and to allow it to move with the agility of a human. That scene was written by somebody who didn’t really get it.

2). In T3 why does the T-850 need to wear shades?? In T1 it was to hide the cyborg eye…

That’s it. Enough said. Remember that the Franco Columbo Terminator in Kyle’s flashforward did not have facial damage, and when it was in a dark area, you could see the red glow of the endo eyes (probably through his pupils). Really though, it’s just an inconsistent movie thing to make him look cool, or in the case of T3, make a stupid joke.

3). In T3 how did the T-850 just happen to conveniently be soooo lucky to get clothes from another biker??? And then get another set of shades....and then another shotgun?? And why didn't John even ask him, "Wow! So you all come off an assembley line, I guess that's why you all dress the same???"

Point 1. It wasn't just luck. He deliberatley went to a biker bar/truck stop. That’s the most likely place to find durable clothing in big and tall sizes. Granted it was ladies night, and you could say 'luck' played a part in having a stripper there with the right gear instead of some gay Village People outfit.

The second thing the Terminator does is find suitable weaponry. Then it proceeds with its mission.

Point 2. John did think he was the same T2 Terminator (time paradox not withstanding). After the 850 said "that was a different 101", John did make a comment in about them coming off an assembly line (which the 850 confirmed). John would know they arrive naked though cause Kyle told Sarah, and Sarah would have told John everything in order to prepare him.

4). The T1 poster tagline reads, "In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear...etc." I wouldnt of thought of Skynet as "the rulers of this planet"?

Dominant ‘lifeform’ = Ruler!

5). The prologue text in T1 says that "the final battle would be fought tonight." I guess Cameron wasn't thinking sequel.

As mentioned by Devil, that’s exactly right. It was originally intended to stand alone, and as such was perfect in itself.

6). In T2 why didn't Cameron show us any POV shots of the T-1000?

Wasn’t necessary to reveal that he wasn’t human. And it was all nano-technology, so there wouldn’t be any visual processor, but instead billions of tiny, self contained units working as a collective. Each one takes on some physical attribute, and processes certain receptive information, and shares it with the whole. No need for set ‘eyes’.

7). Is the endoskeleton's teeth metal or part of the "cybernetic organism surrounded by living tissue"?

Could be either real teeth or real enamel covered metal. I choose to believe they are real teeth like on the lifesize busts, but the TS 700(800)s are metal.

I can think of two responses for that post ^^^:

1). Wow, it's taken 572 posts before someone actually pointed that out!!??

OR

2). You're spoiling everyone's fun, party-pooper!!

1. I’m sure that’s been pointed out several times in this thread.
AND
2. Agreed.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Does anyone think they'll combine all 3 franchises outside of the comic books? I think it could be worth a watch, but it could also be amazing awful...

Considering how well combining just two went, I'm guessing it would be amazingly awful. Terminator walks the line between good and bad enough now as it is. I'd hate to see it tainted by the AVP thing. However, as a mindless action movie, it might be alright.

 

[Blackhole]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!

1). In T3 the firefighter tries to lift Arnie up after he took a hit from the TX. The firefighter says, "he weighs a ton" and can't budge him. If the T-800/850s are infiltration units and like Reeses says, "have everything", then surly he would weigh the same as a normal human being and not "a ton"? Perhaps instead of using dogs to spot Terminators they should just use pressure mats or weighing scales.

2). In T3 why does the T-850 need to wear shades?? In T1 it was to hide the cyborg eye and in T2 it's cos the shades were in the bar-tender's pocket (and already right infront of him) but in T3 he had to look for them?

3). In T3 how did the T-850 just happen to conveniently be soooo lucky to get clothes from another biker??? And then get another set of shades....and then another shotgun?? And why didn't John even ask him, "Wow! So you all come off an assembley line, I guess that's why you all dress the same???"

4). The T1 poster tagline reads, "In the Year of Darkness, 2029, the rulers of this planet devised the ultimate plan. They would reshape the Future by changing the Past. The plan required something that felt no pity. No pain. No fear...etc." I wouldnt of thought of Skynet as "the rulers of this planet"?

5). The prologue text in T1 says that "the final battle would be fought tonight." I guess Cameron wasn't thinking sequel.

6). In T2 why didn't Cameron show us any POV shots of the T-1000?

7). Is the endoskeleton's teeth metal or part of the "cybernetic organism surrounded by living tissue"?

Here's my two cents...

1) Maybe the firefighter was just a weakling, or perhaps the angle of AHNULD meant he couldn't get enough behind him to lift him down without 'hurting' him. Also, AHNULD is still a big guy, so someone would still have to be quite strong to lift him anyway, cyborg or not.

2) Terminator eyes glow in the dark, an obvious giveaway that someone isn't human. Since the T-850 arrived at night, he looked for sunglasses as one of the first things he did.

3) That wasn't a biker, that was a male stripper. Just coincidence that he found his way into a bar, but usually you expect there to be bikers in bars anyway. I've explained the sunglasses already, but remember that the T-800 in T1 happened to have those sweet Gargoyles at his hideout. He couldn't have gone to a store to pick them up looking like that, so he must have accquired them earlier on. As for the shotgun, all T-800s seem to have used them. Since the T-850 is more advanced, perhaps future John remembered how effective the shotgun was against a polymimetic terminator, knocking it down, blowing its head in two and having enough pushing power to knock the T-1000 backwards (remember that Sarah would've knocked the T-1000 into the vat herself had she not run out of shells). Perhaps John shared this information with the resistance, and it was programmed into the T-850 for combatting the Polymimetic T-X.

4) The humans wouldn't refer to themselves as the Resistance unless they had to resist the rulers. Machines cover every continent on the planet too, and have the humans running. I would definitely refer to them as rulers.

5) Perhaps not at first, but if you read some of the other posts in this thread, you see that the T-800 in 1984 may have actually been a last resort by Skynet to wipe out John Connor once and for all, and was possibly sent back AFTER the T-1000. Otherwise, Skynet probably should have sent the T-1000 to 1984.

6) The T-1000 is nanotechnological and so every tiny robot that makes up his form has its own set of sensors, instead of one overall HUD.

7) Some of the novels describe the teeth as being taken from Human prisoners. The T-700 has no need for real teeth as they would not be covered with flesh. Still no reason to put metal teeth in except maybe as an absolute last resort weapon (See the T-RIP scratching John's face in the T-700 factory).

1). In T1 Reese says the time displacement equipment was destroyed after Connor sent him thru....so how did the T2 T-800 and T-1000 get sent then? Did Connor lie to Reese (and not destroy it after all) and how could Reese have known if it was destroyed after he got sent thru?

2). Why was Reese sent alone to 1984? Surely he'd stand a better chance at completing his mission if back-up was sent too? It may have been cos Connor knew Reese was his dad but surly as history was already written Connor being Reese's dad wouldn't change even if other men were sent back?

1) It's possible that the equipment was destroyed after the T-800s and T-1000 were sent through. It's also possible that the T-1000 went first, followed by the T1 T-800. Upon finding out that Skynet sent the T-800 back to 1984, and after sending their only Terminator back in time, the Resistance sends back Kyle Reese, because they have run out of Terminators.

2) In the original screenplay, a second resistance fighter was sent with him, but ended up fused to a fire escape. This was changed when the bubble was made to destroy everything within the sphere. Or perhaps only Connor and Reese made it to the Time Displacement chamber, and there was no way John could go back, because someone had to destroy the equipment whilst someone else went back in time. Since Kyle wanted to go anyway and John couldn't have gone because Kyle had to conceive him with Sarah (and John very well couldn't have done that ), Kyle went by himself.

Phew

 

[SilentSurfer]

Here's my two cents...
1) ...Upon finding out that Skynet sent the T-800 back to 1984, and after sending their only Terminator back in time, the Resistance sends back Kyle Reese, because they have run out of Terminators.

But...Kyle never mentioned any others going through. Had he known this information, he surely would have told Sarah about it. Also, in the police station he says, "Noone goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him and me."

2) In the original screenplay, a second resistance fighter was sent with him, but ended up fused to a fire escape. This was changed when the bubble was made to destroy everything within the sphere. Or perhaps only Connor and Reese made it to the Time Displacement chamber, and there was no way John could go back, because someone had to destroy the equipment whilst someone else went back in time. Since Kyle wanted to go anyway and John couldn't have gone because Kyle had to conceive him with Sarah (and John very well couldn't have done that ), Kyle went by himself.

Two things:

First, I forgot about the second guy in the screenplay, but since he dind't make it to the final revision, that's interesting, but irrelevant. Thanks for reminding me of that though.

Second, Kyle says, "...then THEY blew the whole place." They must refer to the Resistance.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

But...Kyle never mentioned any others going through. Had he known this information, he surely would have told Sarah about it. Also, in the police station he says, "Noone goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him and me."



Two things:

First, I forgot about the second guy in the screenplay, but since he dind't make it to the final revision, that's interesting, but irrelevant. Thanks for reminding me of that though.

Second, Kyle says, "...then THEY blew the whole place." They must refer to the Resistance.

Maybe that's just what Connor wanted him to think and all Connor can reveal to him without leaking too much information about Kyle being his father? Sometimes less information is better to keep people from wondering or asking too many questions which in turn can cause a difference or less than desired ending.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Absolutely agree. Totally plausible. Kyle said about John's father, "John never said much about him."

There's your argument right there. All Kyle was given was what info John needed to give him.

It's more interesting to me though to think that everything happened in one timeline like Kyle said, and that there is a second site from which the 1000 was sent that is yet to be discovered.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

A lot could have happened after Kyle was sent through. And I can't imagine that if Skynet had the technology and with the nearly unlimited resources, it wouldn't build a second or third or 4th installation.

And not to mention that the T1000 is the ultimate ultimate of all ultimate infiltrators. I can just slither in, kill a few resistance fighters, and go through right after Kyle was sent. The Resistance then need to send their own T800 to stop it.

 

[Devil_666]

Sorry for being a party poopah.