Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[SilentSurfer]

That's why it really only makes sense if the T-1000 had been sent first, and then the ultimatest (I know it's not a word) infiltrator, the T-X, was sent after that to try to weaken John's Resistance infrastructure by targetting his lieutenants. But in case the rogue 800 was still around, she was equipped to reprogram him, or take him out.

She was also sent to initialize the real Skynet by planting the virus that would launch a full version of Skynet (no 25 day learning curve necessary this time, just immediate take over) that would know everything that has happened so far (except its own origins in the ruins of an 800 in the Cyberdyne factory as no record of that would likely have been kept to ensure that the 'real creators' never came looking for their highly advanced toy).

Knowing that two previous attempts by its Protos had failed, Skynet would resort to its most successful infiltrator, and go after Sarah in a time when John would not be there to fight back.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Sorry for being a party poopah.

That's okay. Just walk around with a lamp shade on your head as penance for five minutes and you're forgiven.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

That's why it really only makes sense if the T-1000 had been sent first, and then the ultimatest (I know it's not a word) infiltrator, the T-X, was sent after that to try to weaken John's Resistance infrastructure by targetting his lieutenants. But in case the rogue 800 was still around, she was equipped to reprogram him, or take him out.

She was also sent to initialize the real Skynet by planting the virus that would launch a full version of Skynet (no 25 day learning curve necessary this time, just immediate take over) that would know everything that has happened so far (except its own origins in the ruins of an 800 in the Cyberdyne factory as no record of that would likely have been kept to ensure that the 'real creators' never came looking for their highly advanced toy).

Knowing that two previous attempts by its Protos had failed, Skynet would resort to its most successful infiltrator, and go after Sarah in a time when John would not be there to fight back.

Aha! And now that would explain Skynet's understanding of the value of Kyle Reese and why he was on the top of the termination list in T:S.

 

[nicky]

This is all just too much!!!

 

[SilentSurfer]

You asked for it, brother.

Aha! And now that would explain Skynet's understanding of the value of Kyle Reese and why he was on the top of the termination list in T:S.

Huh. Never thought about that, but it does give some plausibility to Skynet targetting Kyle, but the way it was handled is still BS, cause Skynet could not possibly know how directly important to John Kyle is and put Kyle at the top of the list accordingly. The way that was written for the movie is still total BS to create urgency in John to create drama for an otherwise pointless movie. The whole point of TS was to find and save Kyle from Skynet. Kinda lame.

I prefer to think of their meeting from an original timeline POV where Kyle is just some kid in a disposal camp loading bodies when some guy either gets captured, allows himself to be captured, or deliberately breaks in to teach the people there how to storm the wire and get out, thus liberating Kyle in the process only to find out later he was in there. Kyle decides to join the resistance and make a difference like this amazing leader of men, John Connor, did. John will always look after Kyle for future sake, but he will only bond with Kyle over a period of time. You'd have to think it would feel odd to try to treat Kyle like he wasn't his father. He'd have to learn to bond with him on a brothers in arms level, confide in him about his mother, eventually become as close as possible in a war setting, and then the big favor--go save my mommy.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

You asked for it, brother.



Huh. Never thought about that, but it does give some plausibility to Skynet targetting Kyle, but the way it was handled is still BS, cause Skynet could not possibly know how directly important to John Kyle is and put Kyle at the top of the list accordingly. The way that was written for the movie is still total BS to create urgency in John to create drama for an otherwise pointless movie. The whole point of TS was to find and save Kyle from Skynet. Kinda lame.

I prefer to think of their meeting from an original timeline POV where Kyle is just some kid in a disposal camp loading bodies when some guy either gets captured, allows himself to be captured, or deliberately breaks in to teach the people there how to storm the wire and get out, thus liberating Kyle in the process only to find out later he was in there. Kyle decides to join the resistance and make a difference like this amazing leader of men, John Connor, did. John will always look after Kyle for future sake, but he will only bond with Kyle over a period of time. You'd have to think it would feel odd to try to treat Kyle like he wasn't his father. He'd have to learn to bond with him on a brothers in arms level, confide in him about his mother, eventually become as close as possible in a war setting, and then the big favor--go save my mommy.

Maybe they'll give us more in the sequel. T3 kinda screwed it all up and now with this rebooted timeline everything is different. I would like to see that plot that you mentioned happen also, but if I was Connor and was worried about my existence, I'd treat Kyle with importance too. And if Connor was captured with the "new" Skynet's knowledge of his importance to the resistance, I doubt they'd let him live long enough to make it to the camps. It would be "immediate terminator upon visual confirmation."

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

Maybe they'll give us more in the sequel. T3 kinda screwed it all up and now with this rebooted timeline everything is different. I would like to see that plot that you mentioned happen also, but if I was Connor and was worried about my existence, I'd treat Kyle with importance too. And if Connor was captured with the "new" Skynet's knowledge of his importance to the resistance, I doubt they'd let him live long enough to make it to the camps. It would be "immediate terminator upon visual confirmation."

Unless due to facial disfigurement, or something along those lines, he isn't registered properly. Maybe self infliction to get into a camp, to help raise morale and "storm the wire". get the resistance reformed after so many ass kickings on Skynets behalf.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

Unless due to facial disfigurement, or something along those lines, he isn't registered properly. Maybe self infliction to get into a camp, to help raise morale and "storm the wire". get the resistance reformed after so many ass kickings on Skynets behalf.

I think he would have to disfigure himself a loooooot to bypass skynet AI and facial recognition and registration technology. Skynet should have all his needed files, DNA, prints, facial features, blah blah blah.

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

I think he would have to disfigure himself a loooooot to bypass skynet AI and facial recognition and registration technology. Skynet should have all his needed files, DNA, prints, facial features, blah blah blah.

A boiling pot of water can do alot

 

[SilentSurfer]

I think he would have to disfigure himself a loooooot to bypass skynet AI and facial recognition and registration technology. Skynet should have all his needed files, DNA, prints, facial features, blah blah blah.

In this timeline, yes, Skynet does seem to have a lot of info (which it would have inherited from the T-X upload), so prolonging the war seems to have made things a little harder. The T-X had his DNA because she recognized it off the blood and the pet clinic. In this timeline, the whole storming the wire thing seems to be replaced with sneak into the factory, fight another 101, save dad, and GTFO all with the help of the ladies' Terminator, Marcus.

Original timeline Skynet wouldn't know who John is until the War Against the Machines when he rises from the ashes to lead humanity in successful campaigns against the machines.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

A boiling pot of water can do alot

Hahahaha! But who would follow him then?

It's like following Sloth from the Goonies. Would you follow this guy to the death?

 

[SilentSurfer]

Put a hockey mask on that bad boy, and he is death.

 

[SilentSurfer]

New question. I don't usually have the questions in this thread, so it's nice to come up with something original. Who would make a good new T-800 badguy?

Forget about racism in whatever I say next. I mean no disrespect, and it irritates me that I have to apologize ahead of time in this society when we are all human beings. Anyway, how cool would it be to have a big, buff black guy, like a pro wrestler, play a T-800? I think we all here can agree that having Arnold is cool, and at some geek level now necessary, but there is obviously more than his model running around like Franco Columbo. Granted, every previous movie has to make Arnold the star or a hell of a CG cameo, but if we finally get a Terminator movie with other T-800s in it, would anybody like the big bad to be black mofo for a change?

Picture endos inside these guys, and tell me that ain't a damn Terminator.

Bobby Lashley

You could fit McG's T-600 inside this guy. He's almost too big to be a T-800.

Or I always thought the Rock should totally have played a T-800, but is probably afraid of being called the wannabe Arnold, especially if he didn't pull it off. How could he not pull it off though.

As long as they played it as robotic as Arnold did in T1, they would be killer.

But if I had to have a new white one again, it would have to be Stone Cold.

And that's not just because he looks like me.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

I would love to see the Rock be a terminator. But he does that stupid eyebrow thing, it is over.

 

[a-dev]

I'd be down for a black T-800. The wrestler you pictured would clearly fit the bill. Wasn't there a black T-888 in T:TSCC, on the submarine?

Not sure about The Rock as one though..he's too mainstream kid&teen-friendly. If they got him I couldn't help but think they were planning to go back to a jokey T3 approach. He'd be jumping right in at an Arnie T3 performance rather than Arnie T1 performance. Stone cold might be the same, although he certainly has that stern thing going on.

 

[a-dev]

Absolutely agree. Totally plausible. Kyle said about John's father, "John never said much about him."

Theres where T4 deserves a major facepalm. Seems to me like, if T4 is to be believed, everyone in the resistance knows that Kyle at the least seems to have a particular importance to John. John even tells Marcus that Reese is his dad for gods sake and thats after he found out Marcus was a machine. Well done JC, tell the enemy exactly what they need to know. So if he tells a machine, which he thinks is there to infiltrate and kill everyone, its hard to conceive he didn't also tell his closest resistance buddies, even if he did so offscreen. Ridiculous.

 

[EndIessRAlN]

Theres where T4 deserves a major facepalm. Seems to me like, if T4 is to be believed, everyone in the resistance knows that Kyle at the least seems to have a particular importance to John. John even tells Marcus that Reese is his dad for gods sake and thats after he found out Marcus was a machine. Well done JC, tell the enemy exactly what they need to know. So if he tells a machine, which he thinks is there to infiltrate and kill everyone, its hard to conceive he didn't also tell his closest resistance buddies, even if he did so offscreen. Ridiculous.

Hahaha! So true so true. JC: "You killed my father, Kyle Reese...I mean wait I mean well no that's not it I mean errrr...oh I am an idiot." And Marcus didn't question that at all like "how could Kyle be your father? He's still a kid! What are you insane?" Instead he just tells John that he's headed to the camps. Derf!!!

 

[a-dev]

Marty, you’re not thinking 3 dimensionally. It doesn’t matter if a baddy goes back ahead of the protector as long as the resistance is able to send back a protector at any point. The moment in time that matters is when the two time travelers arrive and engage each other in the past. The resistance could fart around for a year before sending the protector, but as long as they send him to the same time as the baddy and the baddy is stopped, John will survive to defeat Skynet.

But how can it not matter? If it doesn't matter then why the time travel strategy in the first place, since its so easily reversable. Going back to the intended premise that the events of T1 are the first time incursion (I've found out the long way that this will be less confusing than to take your idea that T2 was the first event), this is the only way I can think of that time travel would be of any use to skynet, obviously this is not how the films are operating but try it on for size anyway -

If the T-800 goes through the time portal first, all its effects in the past should instantly become part of the new 2029 reality - including the death of Sarah Connor. With her dead, John is never born (and incidentally wouldn't have been born without Kyle anyway) and he never leads the resistance, the resistance that does appear never knows anything about him because he didn't exist so even if they do happen upon the time displacement equipment they won't know to send anyone back to the past to prevent the assassination....so JC remains as having never existed. No time loop.

But then I find myself asking - if this all takes place as I've described would the Skynet that enacted this time incursion in the first place remain aware of 'resistance hero' John Connor after the success of the mission? Or would it experience a new reality where John Connor had never been born and thus never became significant..thus no time travelling need occur in this new reality. Time proceeds on a single new tangent, war against the machines minus John Connor. In this scenario I can conceive that Skynet could become aware of 'the man that would have been' via information passed on by the T-800 who was stuck in 1984. However, this information would be incidental to skynet and no longer have any relevance to reality as it was now experiencing it. So, Skynet has created a new preferable reality. Assuming no alternative human hero emerges instead of Connor its mission accomplished. Time travel technology may not even be developed in this new future because, well, they're winning. They don't need it. Surely, when it went the time travel route this, what I've described above, is what Skynet expected to happen - not the predestination paradoxes and continous time loops that actually seem to occur - because really, if it had known the resistance would have an infinity of chances to prevent it changing the past, I don't think it would have bothered trying in the first place.

And speaking of time, yes I do have too much of it on my hands.

 

[SilentSurfer]

But how can it not matter? If it doesn't matter then why the time travel strategy in the first place, since its so easily reversable.

Okay, lets just stick with T1 for the sake of this argument.

When Skynet devised the time incursion plan, it did not anticipate failure. Like you, Skynet believed that sending the 800 back would alter events instantaneously, but the resistance smashed Skynet's defense grid and gained access to the time displacement equipment, and could counter-incure the timeline.

If the T-800 goes through the time portal first, all its effects in the past should instantly become part of the new 2029 reality - including the death of Sarah Connor. With her dead, John is never born (and incidentally wouldn't have been born without Kyle anyway) and he never leads the resistance, the resistance that does appear never knows anything about him because he didn't exist so even if they do happen upon the time displacement equipment they won't know to send anyone back to the past to prevent the assassination....so JC remains as having never existed. No time loop.

As soon as the Resistance sends Kyle back to '84, anything the 800 could have done in Kyle's abscense is overwritten before it happens, just like John would have been if Kyle hadn't gone back. Also, if Kyle had not gone back, and Sarah had not defeated the endo in Cyberdyne's factory, Skynet would have been erased too, and there would be no Resistance. But Skynet has no way of knowing that.

But then I find myself asking - if this all takes place as I've described would the Skynet that enacted this time incursion in the first place remain aware of 'resistance hero' John Connor after the success of the mission? Or would it experience a new reality where John Connor had never been born and thus never became significant..thus no time travelling need occur in this new reality.

A new reality without either John or Skynet, ie, our actual reality. Unless the endo remains are found in the Cyberdyne factory, there will be no Skynet.

That does raise the question though, what would the T-800 do after the success of the mission had it simply been able to shoot all three Sarahs and be done, especially if its nuclear power cells last for 150 years?

...Surely, when it went the time travel route this, what I've described above, is what Skynet expected to happen - not the predestination paradoxes and continous time loops that actually seem to occur - because really, if it had known the resistance would have an infinity of chances to prevent it changing the past, I don't think it would have bothered trying in the first place.

And that's the missing piece Skynet cannot anticipate because it is caught in the time it is trying to change, and by trying to change it, it is making it happen. Nobody in the time paradox can see the time paradox like we can from outside their universe (we are like God watching it all play out). Let's say somebody had gone back in time in our reality and changed something. We would have no way to know anything had once been different because from our POV it has always been that way. Quantum Leap was all about this kind of situation. The premise of that show is that our real, existing, recent history (within his own lifespan) was made that way by Sam Beckett jumping all over the place changing things that had in some cases originally been much worse.

That's why T1 is so brilliant. Skynet created itself and its enemy by trying to destroy its enemy. If Skynet had not developed the time displacement equipment by 2029, neither of them would even exist from 1984.

All that truelly matters is what is done in the earliest chronological point in any timeline.

In Back to the Future, there were at least three different 1985s, but only Marty knew that because only he existed from a previous timeline. The only point in time that matter was Nov. 5th, 1955, when Marty's presence ends up altering the timeline.

Can you hear me now?

 

[a-dev]

Alright. I like that there is a way to rationalise how the events of the films occur in the way they do even if 2 of those films happen to be crap.

One thing though - John Connor must know about the time paradox as he was witness to the conversation about how Cyberdyne based all its work on the original Terminator, and he knows his own dad was from the future. But why doesn't Skynet become aware of this paradox, and therefore realise that it must send its Terminator to 1984 just to ensure its own existance in the first place? Or does it know? We definitely know that Kyle Reese knows nothing about it - as far as he was concerned it was a straightforward plan by Skynet to kill Sarah Connor in the past and wipe out JCs existance - nothing about any time loop (Point A and Point B being mutually dependant on eachother). Certainly as far as Kyle knew it was to be a case of what I went on about in my last post. But what was to stop Skynet from quickly learning after it became self aware that its own inception derived from mysteriously 'found' technology that was far beyond what was otherwise possible as of 1984? Did it simply not put 2 and 2 together here?

And about those earliest points in chronological time, those points that matter (1984, 1995). Is skynet predestined to fail each time? Could there be a scenario where the T-800 does manage to kill Sarah connor and maybe submits itself to cyberdyne for their research?! Likewise in 1995 is the T-1000 inevitably set to fail in its mission? I apologise if theres an obvious answer to this - my brain has leaked out my ears. Also I travelled back through time to add this paragraph as an afterthought.

That does raise the question though, what would the T-800 do after the success of the mission had it simply been able to shoot all three Sarahs and be done, especially if its nuclear power cells last for 150 years?

Its pretty interesting. And what would the T2 T-800 have done if he witnessed the T-1000 killing John Connor. Would he have continued battling him? Or just shrugged and walked off?!

I like what T:TSCC did with Terminators having different missions in the past to safeguard Skynets development. Or that episode with the Terminator accidentally sent to the wrong time. I wonder how that managed to happen.