Attention Chris Howes

[Spenser]

Did anyone stop and say "Wow this guy is getting buried"? Every time you turned around someone else was putting together another dream figure project, so many are culpable in the bottle neck that has occurred.

If someone says bring it on! every dang time… There is no one to blame but the one who took on the work. No one knew Chris's limits but him.

And by the way Chris still listed as available in the “Reference links for customizers and Custom Artist Availability!” thread.

 

[Ironman1188]

um.. NO. Do your research. What you're talking about is people purchasing items.. LEGAL items over the internet and then being ripped off. That's not the case here.

What do you think would happen if you called the police and told them that you attempted to purchase some drugs and the dealer ripped you off? Right.

Chris Howes and for that matter EVERY sculpter/customizer/etc. on here that sells this stuff is doing it illegally. That's a fact. None of them have the rights to properties. None of them have likeness rights. None of them have permission to be selling these things. It's all illegal. So by YOU or anyone else doing business with these people, that's on YOU if you get ripped off.

Please.. go try and contact the authorities and tell them you got ripped off buying some illegal property and see what they say. There's a difference between buying something without knowing it's illegal (knock offs and what not) and flat out KNOWING what you're buying is illegal.

Do YOUR research. Andgor was selling exactly what you are talking about and they wound up with plenty of legal woes, police reports and BBB complaints. All of which were pretty much a result of what we're seeing here. Orders being taken then no email contact, no updates and no delivery of the items. You'll notice that Andgor is no longer thought highly of in the 1:6 community. Actually it and fraud are pretty much synonymous. Be a shame if Howes allowed himself to become the third part of a trifecta like that.
Everyone seems all happy as a clam, its bright days and sunshine again. C.Howes posted that he'll be posting updates soon!!
Hello?
Isn't that exactly what was said before,(on several occasions) never happened and basicly resulted in this thread starting? Words are cheap. A picture paints a thousand words. I for one would have been much more set at ease if he had returned less hostile and defensive. He's not the victim here. To redeem himself he should have organized himself prior to posting. Then, listed the commission, where it stands as a WIP and an updated photo from when last anything was seen of it.
Has he been busy? Has he been working his butt off? Maybe. But at this point who cares? He's still not shown anything on many of his commissions here but we've already seen reviews from commissions taken here that have been sold, shipped and received thru Ebay.
Oneye's suggestion about artists who over commit really only applies here. If an artist, a customizer winds up behind schedule, the easiest thing to do is be honest. There are other slimeballs who won't be satisfied with anything. Look at the douchebags that are still harping on Les and Josh and their backlog. And they've been nothing but completely honest with us every step of the way. I dare say not many others here would venture to be so open about their personal misfortunes, losses and troubles. Does this help you get your item? No. But it does keep communication and understanding open between all parties. I would like to have seen what the guys ^^^^^ing at Les would have said had he come here to, inistead of baring his soul to us, tell us that Russian spammers had taken over his internet mail. Please!! You'd have laughed him off of this forum.
Chris, the way I see it there are three things you can do:
- return all monies to those asking for refunds
- post pictures, taken the day they are posted of where each sculpt stands
- admit you took on too much, too soon and personally email each party who prepaid with a decent explanation of why the work from even before the commissions started on this forum has still to be received
From there you can reorganize, regroup and possibly start fresh with a better perspective on what you can handle.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Well said Ironman1188, well said indeed.

 

[Spenser]

Everyone seems all happy as a clam, its bright days and sunshine again. C.Howes posted that he'll be posting updates soon!!
Hello?
Isn't that exactly what was said before,(on several occasions) never happened and basicly resulted in this thread starting? Words are cheap.

You’ll remember I predicted this some pages back…

He’ll mostly post in a day or so with an apology… like he did a few weeks back with the Star Trek heads. And most everyone in this thread will forgive him and say “No sweat Chris, glad your back.” And this thread will be deleted.

 

[Voorhees27]

Well said Ironman1188, well said indeed.

Yes agreed 100% Well said.

 

[LordAzrael]

I agree what you’ve said. There should be some kind of limits. That what I've been saying from the get go.

Maybe artists should be restricted to one product at a time?

Another option would be to limit the number of "sales" to say 10 heads, delivered, before taking new orders.

I agree what you’ve said. There should be some kind of limits. That what I've been saying from the get go.

I don't agree with limits to scope of projects but I do think an artist should limit the number of projects they have, or at least have a central thread showing all projects they have committed to with ETA's so that people have a realistic expectation of when the project is likely to be delivered.

It's obvious that the artists can not control the amount of work they take on, so some kind of limits should be imposed on them.

However, this statement is downright insulting.

I think ONEYE must work for the Federal Government - you're not running GM for them are you ?

 

[DarkArtist81]

Maybe artists should be restricted to one product at a time?

Another option would be to limit the number of "sales" to say 10 heads, delivered, before taking new orders.

It's obvious that some of the artists can not control the amount of work they take on, so some kind of limits should be imposed on them.

Maybe all artists should be shipped off to some sort of concentration camp and beaten until they understand business basics?

Honestly, many of us in the situation we are in...got there because of things happening in our lives that were beyond our control. You can be doing everything right, working only on a few projects... and still be waylaid by something unexpected. And that can set you back. It's not always cut and dry like some would think.

And for those of us living from payment to payment... it's hard to say NO to a job when you know it's either that or get kicked out of your apartment..

Have you noticed how often I sell things? Do you think it's because I need space or because I don't know how to manage money? Nope. It's because I need it to pay bills. My commission money has almost always gone to bills, and when you are in dire need... you tend to make bad calls.

The board has absolutely no right to LIMIT anything that customizers do. All they can do is say that all customs business be done off the boards, there is literally nothing else they can do to control it.

And this doesn't come from a customizer wanting to save his own ass, as I am quitting... but it's more for protecting the new guys who don't deserve to be punished for our mistakes.

 

[Captain Britain]

On Page 15 of this thread ProgMatinee wrote:

"its funny....this cash upfront SCHEME is supposed to be some kind of assurance for the customizer to get to your item sooner.

But in reality, by paying up front you took away almost ALL the motivation for him to actually get it done."

Not everyone can be as self-disciplined as Spenser, and throughout this thread I had a lingering sense of pity for Chris and the situation he has got himself into. But you only have to read Les's post here and then read Chris's posts to realise that there is an uncomfortable lack of penitence in Chris's posts yesterday. I feel sorry for him in a way that I don't feel sorry for Les, because Les, despite the awful things he has gone through, has maintained his dignity throughout, by attempting to make amends.

So far Chris has not, and appears to be going in the opposite direction. Did TheTerminator receive the refund he asked for here? No matter how long or how hard his journey may be, I'm sure Les is a much happier man than Chris today, and it would be great to see Chris begin his journey too. A single refund is the first step.

Ultimately this thread is not about stolen money, it's about a human being destroying himself.

 

[ONEYE]

I think ONEYE must work for the Federal Government - you're not running GM for them are you ?

Stop thinking, you'll hurt yourself. You are not good at it.

... The board ...... All they can do is say that all customs business be done off the boards, there is literally nothing else they can do to control it.

That would cut down on the BS for sure. I would definitely go for that. Take it off the board. No more drama, melodrama, etc...

I would suggest that customizers, painters, sculpters, etc. should be allowed to post pictures of their sale item(s), solicit feedback, but do the deals off line. Don't permit any more than that. No calling out of people, no complaints. Advertise, but buyer beware. You do the deal off the board and any problems are taken care of there.

 

[Spenser]

Ultimately this thread is not about stolen money, it's about a human being destroying himself.

That's pretty heavy, and unfortunately very true.

 

[galactiboy]

That would cut down on the BS for sure. I would definitely go for that. Take it off the board. No more drama, melodrama, etc...

I would suggest that customizers, painters, sculpters, etc. should be allowed to post pictures of their sale item(s), solicit feedback, but do the deals off line. Don't permit any more than that. No calling out of people, no complaints. Advertise, but buyer beware. You do the deal off the board and any problems are taken care of there.

How would that be different than it is now... still the same risks and same headaches. Honestly customers need to be aware that there is always a risk when pre-ordering an item... but that is also how most of these commissions and custom projects are run. Sculptors (it seems in particular) don't want to invest the time in a project without knowing that X amount of people are interested and will buy.

I for one want to see customizers continue to post their work and to be able to buy things from them. But I'm a big boy and I understand that there is a risk and I accept that.

Probably the best thing is for buyers to be more informed (this thread helps to highlight that point) and to pay attention to how many projects agreed to Vs how many projects pending are going on for an artist before investing their money.

 

[Deckard]

No remorse, he can't be stupid enough to not realise what he's doing.

He read this thread, he acknowleged one member by qouting them because they were still praising Chris in that post. Yet he ignored the posts a page back that asked for a refund.

Between this thread here and at OSW no one is ever going to be dumb enough to give this ass clown work here again, and if they are, they deserve to be ripped off.

 

[ONEYE]

How would that be different than it is now...

Any call out threads would be deleted and you would be warned to not post or re-post your problem(s). Posts about someone not completing a project, not paying you, not contacting you, not sending you your item would not be allowed. It gets deleted and you get warned. No more stories about alien abductions, Russian spammers, have a bad case of crotch rot, Suzie left me for Jody, I've got the cramps real bad, trust me, your stuff is coming posts. No more, hey where's my nude Summer Glau figure with the huge thicket of pubes at? I ordered it 7 months, 21 days, 3 hours, and 24 minutes ago.

 

[Deckard]

Any call out threads would be deleted and you would be warned to not post or re-post your problem(s). Posts about someone not completing a project, not paying you, not contacting you, not sending you your item would not be allowed. It gets deleted and you get warned. No more stories about alien abductions, Russian spammers, have a bad case of crotch rot, Suzie left me Jody, I've got the cramps real bad, trust me, your stuff is coming posts. No more, hey where's my nude Summer Glau figure with the huge thicket of pubes at? I ordered it 7 months, 21 days, 3 hours, and 24 minutes ago.

Didn't you basically have a blow up with a similar thing where you actually left because of it. And now your doing a 360?

I agree with Galactic, if it's a thread here, you can at least see, hey, 40 people are signed up for this already and he's doing 8 other projects, it doesn't look good. Or hey already progress and people getting them in the mail so it'd likely be safer to order one now.

What your suggesting would potentially make it far worse, the ability for known sculptors to still advertise here, but no feedback?

 

[die]

The board has absolutely no right to LIMIT anything that customizers do. All they can do is say that all customs business be done off the boards, there is literally nothing else they can do to control it.

I agree, but I also feel that if people are going to use this site to advertise and put together lists of people who paid, etc. the activity should be somewhat moderated & there should be guidelines & feedback. Custom commissions here need to work within the commerce section like the buying, selling, trading of other items. If it happens outside of this place, that's up to the individuals & shouldn't be disputed here but the members here have a right to know about the seller's record if they are advertising products here.

There needs to be some rules,that's just the bottom line. It's hard for other sculptors here to get commissions of their sculpts when C.Howes is offering to do like 30 different sculpts and people are already committed to those. I've got money I want to spend on just one single sculpt, but with the backlog the way it is, I probably won't see that sculpt for years.

 

[Spenser]

hey where's my nude Summer Glau figure with the huge thicket of pubes at?

Son of a....I completely missed the commission!!!

 

[Devil_666]

Don't know about all parts of the country, but down in Florida you can take someone to small claims court over these types of matters and win. When Andgor was circling the drain they had to settle several claims in court. This is information I personally received from speaking with a rep at the Better Business Bureau. If you hire someone to provide a service, pay a deposit or down payment, and that service isn't delivered you have a legal claim.

Do YOUR research. Andgor was selling exactly what you are talking about and they wound up with plenty of legal woes, police reports and BBB complaints. All of which were pretty much a result of what we're seeing here. Orders being taken then no email contact, no updates and no delivery of the items. You'll notice that Andgor is no longer thought highly of in the 1:6 community. Actually it and fraud are pretty much synonymous. Be a shame if Howes allowed himself to become the third part of a trifecta like that.
Everyone seems all happy as a clam, its bright days and sunshine again. C.Howes posted that he'll be posting updates soon!!
Hello?
Isn't that exactly what was said before,(on several occasions) never happened and basicly resulted in this thread starting? Words are cheap. A picture paints a thousand words. I for one would have been much more set at ease if he had returned less hostile and defensive. He's not the victim here. To redeem himself he should have organized himself prior to posting. Then, listed the commission, where it stands as a WIP and an updated photo from when last anything was seen of it.
Has he been busy? Has he been working his butt off? Maybe. But at this point who cares? He's still not shown anything on many of his commissions here but we've already seen reviews from commissions taken here that have been sold, shipped and received thru Ebay.
Oneye's suggestion about artists who over commit really only applies here. If an artist, a customizer winds up behind schedule, the easiest thing to do is be honest. There are other slimeballs who won't be satisfied with anything. Look at the douchebags that are still harping on Les and Josh and their backlog. And they've been nothing but completely honest with us every step of the way. I dare say not many others here would venture to be so open about their personal misfortunes, losses and troubles. Does this help you get your item? No. But it does keep communication and understanding open between all parties. I would like to have seen what the guys ^^^^^ing at Les would have said had he come here to, inistead of baring his soul to us, tell us that Russian spammers had taken over his internet mail. Please!! You'd have laughed him off of this forum.
Chris, the way I see it there are three things you can do:
- return all monies to those asking for refunds
- post pictures, taken the day they are posted of where each sculpt stands
- admit you took on too much, too soon and personally email each party who prepaid with a decent explanation of why the work from even before the commissions started on this forum has still to be received
From there you can reorganize, regroup and possibly start fresh with a better perspective on what you can handle.

Both of you guys used Andgor as an example. You know the difference between a single person and a company, right? Andgor had a business address and physical site, where people worked. They had a web address and phone operators to take orders over the phone. You could also order online through their site. And you guys know the majority of people who actually complained to the BBB, Florida Attorney General's office, Consumer Affairs/Consumer protection bureaus were people who ordered custom figures of themselves or loved ones. Right? Not unlicensed, unauthorized sculpts of people/characters. You guys understand that right!?

Apparently not, since you BOTH tried to compare this situation with that. Apples and Oranges.

 

[ONEYE]

Didn't you basically have a blow up with a similar thing where you actually left because of it. And now your doing a 360?

Actually, a 180. 360 would put me right where I was. So, yes, I agree with the policy and see the use of it. It keeps things tidy and you don't have backlog situation threads for a particular member, or threads like this one.

Yes. I was banned at The Hunter's Lair. I bought something, spent a few hundred, got no replies, no update, promises and it got out of hand. I can learn from my mistakes. The only thing Dan did that really ticked me off was to get very personal in his PMs to me behind the scenes.

It's a good policy that he has. It takes enforcement and consistency.

 

[ONEYE]

Want to post an ad?

When posting an ad in this forum, make sure that you post a full description of the item, it's condition, payment terms and photos if applicable. By describing the item to the best of your ability, the better your chances it will sell. Be absolutely clear on every aspect of your sale to avoid surprises later down the road. Don't sell stuff you don't have! All items for sale must accompany a price and we recommend a photo or link to a photo of the items in question.

DO NOT request additional fees for accepting Paypal or for packing materials! This should be included in your price... IT IS AGAINST PAYPAL TERMS OF USE to charge additional fees for accepting Paypal.

Want to respond to an ad?

Do not insult or flame people that are advertising on this forum or you will be issued a warning or ban. If you have a problem with the item for sale or the seller, please report the post and we will look into it. If you are interested in purchasing an item, be sure you get every detail of the sale, including payment terms and condition of the item you are purchasing. If someone is looking to purchase an item, only post if you can offer the would-be buyer the item in question or if you can tell them directly where to find it.

If you're not interested in purchasing the items, you shouldn't be posting in the seller's thread.

What kind of payment options are normal?

There are typically two sale types in this hobby:

1. The item is made and ready to ship: Typically the seller is paid in full and the buyer pays shipping fees, duty, taxes etc... It is expected the seller ships the item immediately once payment is made.

2. The item must be built before shipping: The normal way to proceed in this type of sale is that the seller asks for 50% to start working on your item, and the remaining 50% and shipping costs once the item is ready to ship. It is expected the seller ships the item immediately once the final payment is made.

We recommend using PayPal for all your transactions or an Escrow service for large orders.

Final notes

We are not responsible for deals gone wrong! We will certainly take action against con-artists, but please do not come to us for refunds or for us to be your lawyer. Most of us are grown-ups, let's act like it! Don't go ranting on the public forums about so-and-so doing you wrong, it just makes you look like a whiner and we're not interested. If you've been ripped off, contact an administrator to let us know so we can keep track of bad sellers, but again, we're not going to mediate for you.

Ban Guidelines

First off, it's important to note every member has a warning bar under their avatar... you can use this to see if you have any warnings on your account. You can only see your own warning bar, they are confidential and only staff can see them. Should you break one of the stated rules below, a warning will be added to your account unless you have comitted a serious offense resulting in a permanent ban as per the guidelines below. Should you acquire 3 warnings, you will be suspended for 1 week. Upon your return, if a 4th warning is issued, your account will be permanently suspended.

You can be issued a warning for the following:

1. Posting Outwar links or links like them as well as money making affiliates, spam links and other schemes are also completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated in posts or signatures. This includes any type of point or subscription based reward programs like free ipods, domain names etc... If you get something by having members click on it, it probably qualifies for a warning. Contact an admin if you're not sure. If you want to earn revenue online, please do so on your own website and not off our backs. PLEASE NOTE that if your first post is some sort of spam, we will assume you are either a spammer or a bot and you will be permanently banned on the spot with no warnings.

Posting your deals gone bad on the public areas of the forums. If you've had a deal gone wrong, this is your problem that you need to resolve with the other party and there is no reason to drag the community in to it. You are permitted to post feedback in the feedback thread at https://www.thehunterslair.com/index.php?showtopic=2056 but you are limited to 1 post per transaction, so don't start a multipage rant going back and forth with the seller.

2. Ignoring staff warnings or testing patience / boundaries. If you push things too far, you are banned on the spot.

3. Posting information not pertinent to the thread with the sole purpose of derailing the discussion (trolling).

4. Flaming will not be tolerated here. If you want to have a "heated" discussion with other members, PM them

5. Troublemaking. Starting problems for the sake of stirring up waves will get you removed.

6. Abuse to other Lair members will not be tolerated.

7. Posting for someone who is banned.

8. Creating "Free" banned member threads.

9. Quoting someone, then editing their quote in an attempt to make them look bad or get them warned or banned.

You can be banned without warning for the following:

1. Racism

2. Posting information not pertinent to the thread with the sole purpose of derailing the discussion (trolling).

3. Porn, nudity, links to porn will not be tolerated. We are not a thumbnail gallery nor are we a link database. If you're that hard up, Google your way to happiness. If you have a joke image of some kind or artwork that is not safe for viewing at work, please provide a link to the item and be sure to label it ***NWS***

4. Abuse to staff will not be tolerated under any circumstances. The staff are volunteers, but they didn't volunteer to take your abuse.

5. Creating a new account to post if you have been banned is strictly prohibited. If you are suspended, suck it up and serve the time and you can come back. If you create a new account to circumvent a suspension, all your accounts will be permanently banned and you will never be welcomed back.

Dan has done a great job with his board. I now agree with him. I apologize to him for the crap. However, I will not kiss and make up over the stuff he said via PMs.

 

[Jen]

Any call out threads would be deleted and you would be warned to not post or re-post your problem(s). Posts about someone not completing a project, not paying you, not contacting you, not sending you your item would not be allowed. It gets deleted and you get warned. No more stories about alien abductions, Russian spammers, have a bad case of crotch rot, Suzie left me for Jody, I've got the cramps real bad, trust me, your stuff is coming posts. No more, hey where's my nude Summer Glau figure with the huge thicket of pubes at? I ordered it 7 months, 21 days, 3 hours, and 24 minutes ago.

I think it's important for people to warn others of potential bad situations...be they just regular transactions or customs. The more information people have, the better decisions they can make.

Whenever we get a scammer on this board, people who were ripped off get upset that previous people who were ripped off or had problems, didn't say squat. That is the whole purpose of having a feedback thread....to give people a tool to decide who they want to give their money to.

Those providing a service also need a forum to keep customers updated. That could very well be off this board....but I think any problem transactions should be listed here as a heads up for others.