Avatar: The Way of Water

[Khev]

I’ll see it sometime during the week.

I’m hearing that this is rinse and repeat of the first film, story and structure wise.

That’s not a good thing IMO

There are moments from the first film that are periodically repeated in some fashion (as well as a few moments from ALIENS, The Abyss and Titanic) and yes it involves Jake and the Na'vi fighting humans on Pandora again but otherwise I'd say the first and the second movie are about as similar as ANH and ESB.

If you like the setting and the existing characters and find the new kids appealing then I don't know how you wouldn't enjoy this one.

Fortunately Jake's family clicked with me so I enjoyed the ride.

 

[Otomofan]

How did they explain THIS? I was switching channels last night and came upon Avatar just as his character was taking two gigantic arrows dead center into his chest. He was obviously toast lol.

If you really wanna know I can type it all out and hide it under a spoiler tag.

Australian boat captain is an atrocious actor and pulled me out of the movie every second he was on screen. I could have painted two eyes and a mouth of the end of my dick and got a better performance.

Fortunately Jake's family clicked with me so I enjoyed the ride.

I liked them too, but it took me at least 90 minutes to tell the brothers apart. They really could have used some kind of distinction in their designs.

I also thought Neytiri felt like an afterthought in this movie. Barely any screen time and most of it is crying and just following her man around like a helpless child. But hey, women, am I right??

 

[Khev]

I’m impressed by the levels of negativity on here. Cameron has been peddling his agendas pretty much since The Abyss, you either come on here and bash him until he’s blue in the face or you just accept it that he’s one of the few filmmakers left you rely on to give you an amazing experience at the cinema. This film is not the greatest thing ever, like someone else said it’s a crazy soup of a bunch of better films (and some worse films). My eight year old got the TPM reference.

But I’m here to defend the film because in every way (except a couple of small ones) it’s a better film than the first. It’s better written and acted, which were my main bug bears of the first film, the hoary dialogue and stilted acting are mostly gone. The story is better, covering family and environment really well, albeit totally heart on the sleeve. It gives time to all of the characters who are all much more compelling this time out. Heck Jermaine Clement is barely in it but gets some fantastic small moments. I was intimidated by the 3 hour run time, I don’t like long movies, I watched T1 the other night and that’s like 107 minutes but the time absolutely flies. My son had to pee in the middle of BP2 (and right at a certain caneo) but none of that here.

Worthington is so much better here than the first film and Saldana while she doesn’t get as much to do (one of my few issues) she was the best thing about the first film and is still one of the best things about this film. The kids are all terrific, they have a great dynamic together but are all unique and interesting individually. Weaver is amazing and really convincing as a child and so much better in this film too. Lang is great again, I was a little annoyed they brought him back but he makes a great bad guy.

The action and visuals are truly dazzling and an improvement on the first film in every way. But I will say the whole fps and motion smoothing thing is something I don’t like. Didn’t like it in the latter LOTR films and don’t like it in these films. And there are some shots, especially at the village, that just didn’t look that great, like they were a rough draft and not completed. But overall, incredible, you just accept these characters and locations. I’m one of the few people who loves the alien design. I didn’t originally in the first film but I warmed to them over time and again, am I the only person who finds Neytiri really hot?? All of the water work is truly truly beautiful. As someone who loves the beach and the ocean and surfing I really really get why Cameron gets so worked up about this.

As much as I like the first film, at the time I thought it was one of Cameron’s worst films because of the truly awful dialogue and acting. I can’t tell you how many times I cringed at that film. Saldana is what got my through that. But there was nothing cringe inducing about this one, quite the opposite. Thank goodness we still have filmmakers like Nolan and Cameron to give us big budget genuine cinematic experiences.

Oh and the Oppenheimer trailer looked really good.

I pretty much agree straight across the board except the bit about the visuals ever being weak. Honestly I was watching picture perfect "reality" for three straight hours. Not a single weak looking character, composite, locale, anything. Several times I found myself actively wondering just what the heck was real and what wasn't since aside from the humans I assumed that everything was CGI even though my eyes told me "nope, all real" lol. Every person and thing seemed to interact with every other thing with perfect seamlessness, even Spider (the human kid for those who haven't watched it) and the Na'vi in the same shots, one didn't look any more real than the other.

The 3D was awesome though it did give me a headache which was a bummer.

What was the TPM reference because I actively remember thinking of TPM and chuckling at one point but now can't remember what it was, lol.

 

[Khev]

How did they explain THIS? I was switching channels last night and came upon Avatar just as his character was taking two gigantic arrows dead center into his chest. He was obviously toast lol.

If you've watched even a handful of sci-fi films then the explanation for his return is pretty routine, lol.

 

[choombaz]

I really missed Giovanni Ribisi's character. He was sooooo smarmy and disgusting in the first one. He just played the hell out of that caricature of an evil corporate guy.

As for the Unobtanium, I was intrigued by the concept of the "new" unobtanium in this movie, and then they didn't even mention it again for the whole movie. Maybe in the sequels, I guess...

Oh I couldn’t stand Ribisi, not the character but the actor. He’s no Paul Reiser

Agree about the new unobtanium though, that was a bit weird. This film suffers a bit from because there are so many films now that must be setting up things to pay off 2-3 films down the track.

Overall, the magic and wonderment of the first is lost. Visual pretty, but too same, samey - and obviously we've been here before.

I didn’t think the first had a lot of magic and wonderment so this was an improvement for me.

SO derivative of the first, it's not funny.

It’s derivative of tons of movies even Waterworld lol!!

James Horner’s skill is noticeably lacking in Simon Flanglen – it’s serviceable, but not inspiring.

Agree. Normally Cameron’s films excel at music but this score was vapid except for the bits where it sounded like Titanic or Aliens. Wonder why, no idea

Australian boat captain is an atrocious actor and pulled me out of the movie every second he was on screen. I could have painted two eyes and a mouth of the end of my dick and got a better performance.

Different strokes for different folks

Zoe Saldana is wasted and virtually irrelevant. She seems to blindly follow Jake, whereas in the first she was feisty, forthright, and an essential part of his journey to "enlightenment." Here, she's just the dumb wife who does whatever she's told.

Half agree. I was disappointed she wasn’t used more and better, very surprising for Cameron considering his track record with female protagonists and with Avatar but I think she will be more important in the next film. I agree that he can’t keep repeating the same things and will need to shake it up in the next film.

 

[jye4ever]

Anyone stay for the end credit scene?

 

[Khev]

I liked them too, but it took me at least 90 minutes to tell the brothers apart. They really could have used some kind of distinction in their designs.

True, as good a job as they did in making almost every single Na'vi (at least all the main ones) unique and recognizable it did take me a while to tell the brothers apart. And I couldn't tell you a single new character's name except Spider, lol.

I also thought Neytiri felt like an afterthought in this movie. Barely any screen time and most of it is crying and just following her man around like a helpless child. But hey, women, am I right??

Both Jake and Neytiri had much smaller parts than I would have guessed. A pretty big gamble to have so much riding on both sets of kids (or I guess three sets of kids if you count you know you) but hey it worked.

 

[Khev]

Anyone stay for the end credit scene?

Arnold picking up the minigun on Earth and saying "fine, I'll do it myself" took me by complete surprise.

 

[choombaz]

I pretty much agree straight across the board except the bit about the visuals ever being weak. Honestly I was watching picture perfect "reality" for three straight hours. Not a single weak looking character, composite, locale, anything. Several times I found myself actively wondering just what the heck was real and what wasn't since aside from the humans I assumed that everything was CGI even though my eyes told me "nope, all real" lol. Every person and thing seemed to interact with every other thing with perfect seamlessness, even Spider (the human kid for those who haven't watched it) and the Na'vi in the same shots, one didn't look any more real than the other.

Where did you see it? At Imax? They were having technical issues so I’m wondering if there was an issue with the projection.

What was the TPM reference because I actively remember thinking of TPM and chuckling at one point but now can't remember what it was, lol.

“There’s always a bigger fish”

Anyone stay for the end credit scene?

There wasn’t one, unless you are talking about the imagery under the credits. Sorry I think I missed the joke!

 

[Khev]

Most will. Can't judge the movie now as all the 'true-fans' have come out in their blue make-up and beads.

Honestly I think this one scoring in the high 70's might allow more people to actually appreciate this one. My crowd seemed to like it and there was even scattered applause at the end but nothing, and I mean NOTHING like the audience response to something like say Endgame. And without the insane levels of gushing that the first one got I think more people will be able to just settle in with their own feelings, untainted by anyone else and go hmm you know that was pretty good.

That could just be the Cameron fan in me talking though. As others have said there are a LOT of Cameron-isms in this and if that's not your thing then it could obviously have the opposite effect.

And as predictable as the overall story was in this there were a good handful of moments I remember thinking "ooh I wonder how they're actually gonna get out of this" and then something cool I wasn't anticipating happened.

The visuals though. So freaking unbelievable, especially in the night time/moonlight scenes.

 

[Khev]

Where did you see it? At Imax? They were having technical issues so I’m wondering if there was an issue with the projection.

I saw it in an AMC 3D Liemax.

“There’s always a bigger fish”

Oh gosh how could I forget, yes that was absolutely it, lol.

 

[choombaz]

Oh gosh how could I forget, yes that was absolutely it, lol.

My eight year old turned and said it to me just after it happened, he’s a genius.

 

[Khev]

I'm still perplexed by the reproductive cycle of the Navi.

There's one character whose birth is a mystery through the whole movie....

They show Navi women pregnant and they look like pregnant humans. I even think there was a shot or two of umbilical cords. All very mammalian traits. (Along with nipples, evident on the male Navi but always conveniently hidden on the females. And since they don't have nips lining their chests, I assume they only have one baby at a time, and not a litter.)

Then there's the genetic mutation of the human/Navi hybrids having five fingers instead of four. But if that's from human DNA...whose DNA is it? I don't think twins share the same DNA 100%, so like I said before, the kids running around on Pandora are really Jake's brother's kids cause he's in his brother's DNA-cloned body.

And in the first movie, we see that they attach their ponytails to have "sexual relations" but it's not clear at all if that's how they reproduce. That might just be for recreational purposes.

And before you accuse me of overthinking it, you KNOW Cameron has an illustrated notebook that goes over every little detail of Navi physiology from birth to death, and he's had it all planned out to the letter since the mid 90s. That's the kinda dude he is. He's actually a very decent artist, both with organic and mechanical designs, as seen in the book "Tech Noir: The Art of James Cameron."

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The umbilical chords were mentioned and shown during the birth of the RDA avatars, not sure if the native Na'vi are supposed to have them. Though now that I think of it they did have belly buttons didn't they?

I'm just going to assume that their pony tails are for mind melding and they still procreate the old fashioned way like humans. Then that avoids all the weird bestiality stuff that people were joking about so much when the first movie came out.

 

[Khev]

Next up the deserts of Pandora.

Sully of Arabia.

I rolled my eyes way back when after it was announced that Cameron was going to be doing another water movie for this one but ended up absolutely loving the new environment. I think I was picturing that it was going to be a deep sea type film with a climactic battle along the lines of the first GI Joe movie as opposed to it being mostly on the surface with speedy six man skiffs hopping the waves and the new Na'vi mounts going both above and below the water like flying fish and cool stuff like that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Here you go - the eyes wide open, no goggles, no brain switched off, review:

Firstly, there are undeniable moments to enjoy, but the further it went on, the less I liked it. People liking the ending most has me completely baffled as it truly got ridiculous, bizarre, and stupid by the end.

Overall, the magic and wonderment of the first is lost. Visual pretty, but too same, samey - and obviously we've been here before.

SO derivative of the first, it's not funny.

James Horner’s skill is noticeably lacking in Simon Flanglen – it’s serviceable, but not inspiring.

Sigorney Weaver’s voice is noticeably too old for a kid.

Jake is annoying. Found it hard to buy into him as “part of the people” as he’s so “grunt” and “human” this time. It’s like he’s reverted back to things he didn’t like about humans and lost the spirituality of his journey from the first film. And I wouldn’t call him a strong father figure at all – more like a selfish ******* who took his problems to an innocent tribe.

The story flow is all over the shop – some scenes work, then others jump from one scene to another in really jarring ways.

Australian boat captain is an atrocious actor and pulled me out of the movie every second he was on screen. I could have painted two eyes and a mouth of the end of my dick and got a better performance.

Zoe Saldana is wasted and virtually irrelevant. She seems to blindly follow Jake, whereas in the first she was feisty, forthright, and an essential part of his journey to "enlightenment." Here, she's just the dumb wife who does whatever she's told.

Too bloated, but I’m not sure how much you could cut – some “pretty scenes” are just indulgent for the sake of being pretty scenes, and some actions scenes just went on and on.

If killing Jake is so important, why is there only one boat at the end? We’ve seen the “might” of the human forces, why not send more? In the first, the battle seemed enormous, and why the humans were able to topple the tree so easily, here it just felt insignificant and silly.

How many times can we say “****.”

Didn’t feel anything in “that” moment.

As if Quaritch would do what he did at the end. And why was Zoe’s character so aggressive toward the human kid – there wasn’t any foreshadowing of her ill will toward him? Was it a bluff? Don't know?

The whole ending on the boat is just bizarre – stupid **** happens constantly – and where’s the other tribe? Did they just **** off? It drags on and on.

There definitely shouldn’t be 3 more films. One more is enough. There’s simply not enough meat on the bones.

I fear these will be my feelings if I even see this.

But I am curious what did work for you, what you liked.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'd say the first and the second movie are about as similar as ANH and ESB.

ESB totally ripped off ANH... I still can't get past it.

 

[Prime Clone]

I'd say the first and the second movie are about as similar as ANH and ESB.

Good analogy, I was thinking how the first established the world and the FX and freed up the second to tell more of a story.

What was the TPM reference because I actively remember thinking of TPM and chuckling at one point but now can't remember what it was, lol.

“There’s always a bigger fish”

Also, the planetary invasion was reminiscent of the invasion of Naboo with the wildlife fleeing.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Zoe Saldana is wasted and virtually irrelevant. She seems to blindly follow Jake, whereas in the first she was feisty, forthright, and an essential part of his journey to "enlightenment." Here, she's just the dumb wife who does whatever she's told.

What's interesting about Saldana is, in a timeline of about half a decade, she entered into three major franchises. Not as a bit player, but an integral part of them - Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy (MCU) and Star Trek.

I mean how many people in that business can secure a run like that? Even Sigourney Weaver doesn't have three true franchises under her belt.

I've observed that Cameron can only write one type of female character in all his films. Unfortunately not sure there is much more room to take Neytiri in terms of narrative.

Saldana is still cashing checks though.

 

[The Buffinator]

If you've watched even a handful of sci-fi films then the explanation for his return is pretty routine, lol.

So I’m guessing he’s a clone or they downloaded his consciousness into an android or the like. Seems to undermine the dramatic climax of the first film, but I guess killing him over and over again could be Cameron’s way of taking “repeating himself” to yet another level. I think that will get rather routine come the 5th sequel lol.

 

[Khev]

Aw man I thought all the talk of HFR was a joke, now I definitely have to see it a second time on the big screen or I'll forever wonder what I missed, lol.